EVANGEL94's Final Slugfest Tournament Discussion Thread: Questions, Comments, & Talk

Started by Symmetric Chaos76 pages

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
With every single post that you all make to carry on this feud, you're losing credibility and turning your own complaints into a joke.

Which.. isn't to say that I don't necessarily agree or identify with some of what's being thrown around, but I think there's a point where you should have the decency to say "**** it, I'm done", and mean it sincerely.

Your names (all of you) will most likely be brought up after this for whatever reasons to refer to this whole debacle, but... just leave. Please. 😬

👆

Unfortunately none of them are going to even try letting this go anymore.

*cosigns Bran*

Nah, you guys are just saying that because you want it to end. Don't presume to know who will do what. I let it drop at one point, and I will again as soon as it becomes obvious that Evangel won't respond with anything but more backwards justifications that dodge my complaints. Maybe she'll prove me wrong, but meh.

In any case, the fact that it isn't just one or two people, but many, should say a lot. I'm not pretending to be the saint here, because I've been harsh as hell too. But I looked the other way early when Evangel would ban people from voting for minor quibbles (with no insults directed at her) or ignore one side of an argument because she had ruled the other way...I wanted the tourney to keep moving, and I talked to people on her behalf either in threads or via PM to try to keep things efficient and respectful. I probably should have said something at the time, because it's all just mounted up to a bunch of upset people. She doesn't listen....it's not just my situation (which I couldn't care less about right now). She decides something and attempts to quell any opinions otherwise. Arbitrary rule changes, nullified votes, reactionist tourney bans, etc. It's all the same egotism.

So yeah, I'll drop my sh*t, which again I only came back when she brought me back up in an unfairly negative light. I had happily left, but won't stand around while I'm flamed by someone. If she continues to do so, I won't leave and I'll be an even bigger jerk to her because that's what she deserves. But if Evangel can let it go, I won't be back.

LMAO

So this is what Digi's like when he isn't mod.

Shut up, AJ.

I'm always a mod and I'm also always a member. Creating a distinction between the two creates a false dichotomy, as there is no difference in my approaches and mentalities toward any situation. So if that's a "holy crap Digi's pissed" thing AJ, grow up. We all know that the actions and words must match the situation. I've said numerous times that I'm not happy about where this has ended up, and it's the truth, but I also feel justified in my criticisms.

Can we vote who won in this debate? It's been over 12 hours 😖hifty:

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I'm always a mod and I'm also always a member. Creating a distinction between the two creates a false dichotomy, as there is no difference in my approaches and mentalities toward any situation. So if that's a "holy crap Digi's pissed" thing AJ, grow up. We all know that the actions and words must match the situation. I've said numerous times that I'm not happy about where this has ended up, and it's the truth, but I also feel justified in my criticisms.
😂

This just got more entertaining. 👆

Originally posted by -K-M-
Can we vote who won in this debate? It's been over 12 hours 😖hifty:
Oh cool.

I'd say Digi won this battle decisively. I saw a lot of dodging from the opposition, and no real proof either. No scans, no links, nothing. On the other hand Digi, hammered, and hammered his point home, 'till there was nothing to hit anymore. It was a highly entertaining battle, but my vote goes to:

Digi

Originally posted by -K-M-
Can we vote who won in this debate? It's been over 12 hours 😖hifty:

I'd vote for Digi.

Oh...but we have to write out a justification. Damn.

Okay. Well, Evangel's acted like nothing but a holier-than-thou ***** to participants and observers alike. She deserves some credit for all of her past successes, but she should also take the responsibility for her current failure - it's no one's fault but her own, after all. Not to even mention her 'fixing' of the tournament as noted by more than a few.

Will that suffice? 😬.

Originally posted by Digisplat
Nah, you guys are just saying that because you want it to end. Don't presume to know who will do what. I let it drop at one point, and I will again as soon as it becomes obvious that Evangel won't respond with anything but more backwards justifications that dodge my complaints. Maybe she'll prove me wrong, but meh.

In any case, the fact that it isn't just one or two people, but many, should say a lot. I'm not pretending to be the saint here, because I've been harsh as hell too. But I looked the other way early when Evangel would ban people from voting for minor quibbles (with no insults directed at her) or ignore one side of an argument because she had ruled the other way...I wanted the tourney to keep moving, and I talked to people on her behalf either in threads or via PM to try to keep things efficient and respectful. I probably should have said something at the time, because it's all just mounted up to a bunch of upset people. She doesn't listen....it's not just my situation (which I couldn't care less about right now). She decides something and attempts to quell any opinions otherwise. Arbitrary rule changes, nullified votes, reactionist tourney bans, etc. It's all the same egotism.

So yeah, I'll drop my sh*t, which again I only came back when she brought me back up in an unfairly negative light. I had happily left, but won't stand around while I'm flamed by someone. If she continues to do so, I won't leave and I'll be an even bigger jerk to her because that's what she deserves. But if Evangel can let it go, I won't be back.

Keep the faith 🙂

Stay trolling 🤘

😆 Injustice is a *****?

Damn it, I spend all kinds of time addressing stuff and it suddenly dies down... well screw I've had to read through pages and pages of pointless bickering just to figure out exactly what's been going on so I'm going to say my piece on the matter.

Evangel-

I think your a good host and I'm a big fan of your past tourney's and especially this new system but rule changes mid tourney suck, period. If you want to contend that it wasn't really a rule change and it was more along the lines of re-clarification that's fine, but you have to understand that as far as Digi's team was concerned the two are pretty much the same thing. Either way, two of his characters were rendered all but obsolete when his general strategy was barred and THAT'S why Digi was originally so upset about it. Digi's one of those who take their tourney efforts fairly seriously because of the extraordinary amount of time he devotes to it when he could be doing other things. Now it may be arguable that he over reacted, but even if it is arguable it's also understandable because NO ONE likes feeling like they've had their legs cut out due to differences of opinions regarding the rules.

Now I've noticed you and others(Air Legend springs to mind) using me as an example against Digi because I'm able to compensate for the rule change while he isn't(or at least couldn't at the time). But what you guys have to understand is that unlike Digi I didn't build my team around the idea of the Adaptoid army, that was something that I thought up I'd already decided I wanted to use a Surfer/Adaptoid amalgam and was going over other possibilities the amalgam presented. But despite that, even I would have been a liitle peeved(if I had been participating at the time that is) when you made your ruling if only because the rest of my strategies and battles would have been viewed as anticlimactic given the way I started off in the tourney. Even now, I'm betting that I'm going to have a tougher time with the judges because all that's going to be going on in the back of their minds are "Goober's primary strategy has been handicaped so he's going to be fighting an uphill battle..." and whether they consciously realize it or not, because of that they're going to be lending more credit to my opponents arguments that my amalgam isn't going to be enough to beat them on his own. I myself enjoy a challenge so I'm not resentful of my situation, but if I had a different type of personality there's a good chance I'd be arguing right along side of Digi.

I understand your reasoning and motivations, but SOMETHING should have been offered to Digi to account for the razing of all his plans. If nothing else you could have offered to let him swap out his "spy on opponent" option for the instant tech option. I know that kind of thing might catch some criticism of it's own, but it would have had far better results than what ended up going down. I understand that a good host stays true to the rules, but if the rules are up in the air anyway sometimes it's better to bend and keep the playing field as level as possible(which is actually what you were already doing when you made the instant tech ruling).

Digi-

You're a good friend and a good mod and I like you a lot, but you more than anyone should be able to understand that sometimes these types things just happen. There was the incident where a Daximite construct army was banned mid match after the tourney was already underway in one of your tourney's(I think was yours anyway, I was new at the time), there was batdude's tourney when we had a misunderstanding about offensive transmutation on EX AM and the whole deal about whether or not the speed of attacks was capped at lightspeed along with the characters, and there was my own tourney where I had to ban leo's intangibility after I'd repeatedly approved it via PM. A good tourney host puts the needs of the tourney at large over the the needs of a single competitor and that's what Evangel did. Was it unfair to you and I that our best tricks got banned after they'd already been approved... absolutely. Would it have been even more unfair for things to continue as they started and have all our competition steamrolled just because we found a loophole in the rules and got it approved by the host before anyone knew enough to point it out as a loophole... absolutely. And what's more it would have taken all the fun out of the tourney for everyone but the two of us when they realized our teams were impossible to stop if we decided to go all out.

You know that most of the vs forum considers the rule change wrong, so you have nothing more to prove. People aren't going to say that you lost because you're a bad debater, their going to attribute to the rule change and nothing more. It was an unfortunate turn of events, but tourney's evolved to where they are today through and error and that process is still going on. Something was tried and some people didn't like it because they felt is was exploiting a loophole in the rules so it was changed.

I understand your anger over the situation just like I understood the anger of all the people who felt cheated by the changes and revisions I mentioned above, but this argument has gone on for long enough. And yes I know that you'd pretty much let it drop until you felt that she attacked you personally, but the only reason this shit got brought up again was because people just won't let it go. As a host, having to continuously defend your position(which Evangel's had to do since this thing began) sets your nerves on end and you often come off more harsh than you should in the defense of your decisions.

To everyone else who keeps dragging this damn thing out...

SHUT THE F*CK UP!

Digi and Evangel are not only both adults who are fully capable of defending themselves, they're also both well acquainted with the tournament process. They don't need the help of any overzealous supporters who're only going to make matters worse in the long run. If uninvolved people hadn't continued to beat a dead horse until it's heart was jump started and then died again from the continued beating then shit wouldn't have gotten nearly this bad and these two may have come to some kind of an understanding based off their past tourney experiences. But NOOO... you guys just had to keep on stirring up trouble because your so God Damn bored at home you gotta FIND things to b*tch about here. When people are able to man up and run a tourney successfully and without incident THEN they can justifiably critisize others, but until that happens all this shit is just this shit is just theoretical to you because you don't have the slightest idea of the work and stress involved in the process.

You guys take your online persona's way to seriously if thinking about the happenings of this tourney constitute a large portion of your day and your not even involved in the damn thing. For Christ sakes we're talking about COMIC BOOKS... this shit is supposed to be FUN. Hiccups like this one aren't all that big of a big deal until you MAKE them a big deal, now I was very exited and happy about getting to come back so please stop bringing me and everybody else that's still in this thing down with this BULLSHIT. There are a hundred things that could have been done by everyone involved to help right this situation, but NO ONE did any of those things. So it's no use trying point the finger because the blame is shared by damn near everyone.

Anyway, if anyone feels the need to respond to this post with an argument feel free to take it up with me via PM because there's been more than enough of that in the discussion thread at this point.

My soaps just got more interesting.

I like the fact that the most interesting thing in this tourney was this.

Right now it's almost everybody bashing Evangel. If you can't voice your opinions without bashing then don't.

Evangel changed the rules. It happened and all the complaining in the World won't do anything about it.

Those who I've spoken with before need to back off and stop. Use the PMs.

This thread is becoming a problem. Going out of your way to sabotage a tournament is a pathetic waste of time.

Originally posted by darthgoober

[b]Digi-

You're a good friend and a good mod and I like you a lot, but you more than anyone should be able to understand that sometimes these types things just happen. There was the incident where a Daximite construct army was banned mid match after the tourney was already underway in one of your tourney's(I think was yours anyway, I was new at the time), there was batdude's tourney when we had a misunderstanding about offensive transmutation on EX AM and the whole deal about whether or not the speed of attacks was capped at lightspeed along with the characters, and there was my own tourney where I had to ban leo's intangibility after I'd repeatedly approved it via PM. A good tourney host puts the needs of the tourney at large over the the needs of a single competitor and that's what Evangel did. Was it unfair to you and I that our best tricks got banned after they'd already been approved... absolutely. Would it have been even more unfair for things to continue as they started and have all our competition steamrolled just because we found a loophole in the rules and got it approved by the host before anyone knew enough to point it out as a loophole... absolutely. And what's more it would have taken all the fun out of the tourney for everyone but the two of us when they realized our teams were impossible to stop if we decided to go all out.

You know that most of the vs forum considers the rule change wrong, so you have nothing more to prove. People aren't going to say that you lost because you're a bad debater, their going to attribute to the rule change and nothing more. It was an unfortunate turn of events, but tourney's evolved to where they are today through and error and that process is still going on. Something was tried and some people didn't like it because they felt is was exploiting a loophole in the rules so it was changed.

I understand your anger over the situation just like I understood the anger of all the people who felt cheated by the changes and revisions I mentioned above, but this argument has gone on for long enough. And yes I know that you'd pretty much let it drop until you felt that she attacked you personally, but the only reason this shit got brought up again was because people just won't let it go. As a host, having to continuously defend your position(which Evangel's had to do since this thing began) sets your nerves on end and you often come off more harsh than you should in the defense of your decisions.

To everyone else who keeps dragging this damn thing out...

SHUT THE **** UP!

Digi and Evangel are not only both adults who are fully capable of defending themselves, they're also both well acquainted with the tournament process. They don't need the help of any overzealous supporters who're only going to make matters worse in the long run. If uninvolved people hadn't continued to beat a dead horse until it's heart was jump started and then died again from the continued beating then shit wouldn't have gotten nearly this bad and these two may have come to some kind of an understanding based off their past tourney experiences. But NOOO... you guys just had to keep on stirring up trouble because your so God Damn bored at home you gotta FIND things to b*tch about here. When people are able to man up and run a tourney successfully and without incident THEN they can justifiably critisize others, but until that happens all this shit is just this shit is just theoretical to you because you don't have the slightest idea of the work and stress involved in the process.

You guys take your online persona's way to seriously if thinking about the happenings of this tourney constitute a large portion of your day and your not even involved in the damn thing. For Christ sakes we're talking about COMIC BOOKS... this shit is supposed to be FUN. Hiccups like this one aren't all that big of a big deal until you MAKE them a big deal, now I was very exited and happy about getting to come back so please stop bringing me and everybody else that's still in this thing down with this BULLSHIT. There are a hundred things that could have been done by everyone involved to help right this situation, but NO ONE did any of those things. So it's no use trying point the finger because the blame is shared by damn near everyone.

Anyway, if anyone feels the need to respond to this post with an argument feel free to take it up with me via PM because there's been more than enough of that in the discussion thread at
this point. [/B]

There, now Bada doesn't have to warn you.

Originally posted by darthgoober
If uninvolved people hadn't continued to beat a dead horse until it's heart was jump started and then died again from the continued beating then shit wouldn't have gotten nearly this bad and these two may have come to some kind of an understanding based off their past tourney experiences. But NOOO... you guys just had to keep on stirring up trouble because your so God Damn bored at home

You guys take your online persona's way to seriously if thinking about the happenings of this tourney constitute a large portion of your day and your not even involved in the damn thing

Good going Master-Borg.


Tournament Fields and Assigned Letters
a) In the middle of a Blizzard in Antarctica
b) Sahara desert in the middle of a Sandstorm
c) An evacuated San Francisco with extremely thick fog and 4.5 magnitude earthquakes on the Richter scale occurring every 3 minutes.
d) Caribbean island in the middle of a typhoon
e) A very Dense and thick tropical African jungle
f) On the rim of an active volcano on a Pacific island - active lava flows scorch the island landscape
g) Underground with a vast cave interior (with no natural light source)
h) An empty and abandoned Asteroid M
i.) Dinosaur Era Battlefield - Various Species of Dinosaurs from T-Rex to Raptors to Teridayctl roam the badland landscape.
j.) Post-Apocalyptic New York City (Barren, deserted, and half destroyed)
k.) Massive underground abandoned underground subway system (Empty tunnels, miles of old track, and old rusty subway cars, and no natural light source)
L.) ????? Area: This area morphs and cycles through A to K fields with a change occurring every five minutes.

I thought I'd give everyone an update. I haven't scheduled the dates, but these are the matches.


1. Typhus vs Psycho Gundam - Area C

2. Darthgoober vs King Kandy - Area J

3. Final Match (winners from both matches face off against one another) - Area L

Competitors will have all memories and experiences from previous matches their teams have fought in. Everyone should become a better fighter with experience and previous memories, and it should make for some interesting matches.

I'll co-sign goob's post, and take his advice to simmer down. Evangel, I hope you read it and consider it carefully.

Also, I should clarify that it was not just the rule change (which became moot after a while, though it was still wrong) but the demeanor of Evangel toward me which was even more off-putting. I once considered her a friend, and am mystified by the total lack of courtesy or attention I received when I presented my case initially, and the indifference at my requests for explanations or when I briefly wanted back in (and for not telling me period whether I was back or not, which wasted even more of my time and effort). Evangel, you wasted an enormous amount of time and money of mine because of your rash actions, and inability to compromise in the face of reason. You also damaged a potentially great tournament because you have treated others rudely if they disagree with you, however reasonably or respectfully. Learn from this. Not for KMC, or the tourney (which will finish, it seems, but under a cloud). But for yourself, and those around you.

I'm aware of what can happen in tourneys, and the decisions that have been made in the past (to be fair, the one goob mentioned in my tourney did break a pre-established rule...I just had to enforce it during a battle. It wasn't created on the spot, or changed).

And now I've wasted too much of my time, money, and emotional effort to feel good about any of this. I know how fun tourneys can be, and how much time I put into them, so it's impossible for me not to be upset when someone else ruins it either with poor decisions or indifference to fellow members. I'll be done now. Evangel, don't give me cause to turn back on that promise by continuing this.

👆 for Goob and Digi.

Evangel, I hope everything is sorted out.

Originally posted by Badabing
👆 for Goob and Digi.

Evangel, I hope everything is sorted out.

What about me? I practically saved the day!