Originally posted by EmperorSidious2Voldemort without a doubt to me.
Both are strong. And both go as the most powerful of there time. But at the end of the day I have to go with dumbledore.You
I don't think Robbie even debates. He's just a troll who wanks his characters without evidence or rages hard against characters he does not like.
Originally posted by quanchi112
More ruthless, darker wizard, and lived for power but their duel showed to me he was superior especially when you consider Dumbledore used the elder wand against him which is the most powerful wand.
I would rather us do this debate on a dumbledore vs voldemort forum as we are allies in this forum I'm going to start one
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2*SNIP*
7a. Well I've given you my reason because we only see yoda use it once and it was so unspecific that is why I believed that it wouldn't just be a huge factor. Also when has precog ever helped yoda in a battle situation in the movies. For a matter of fact when has it helped any force weilder. Not saying he can't use it but we just never see him use it to a battle applicable state. I'm not saying he can't use it I just dismiss it as battle applicable. It may be shown but it hasn't been shown as battle applicable as far I as i know/ remember. So he can use it but I don't see why he would as usual ammo is to just plow through his opponent and has never showed any battle applicable precog. So he can use it but I just don't understand what battle applicability it would hold as it was never shown. I know what precog means but it's never been shown in a battle applicable state via movies.
7b. Other than Darth sidious using FORCE CHOKE when has any other force weilder ever ever used telekenisis to throw an opponent about or levitate them purely the person, and not the object not the object below them, without their hands. Notice you must fulfill two requirements, not force choke and lifted just the person and not the object.
According to stealth ranger the average human mind processes a thought within .34milliseconds. Since dumbledore is much smarter than the average human, and since this spell doesn't really need to aim in a particular direction toward yoda, by the time he is done thinking, the spell is activated. So with all of this fact he would be able to freeze yoda before he gets hit.
2. I never said I dint understand if we have agreed on it than that means I must understand it. So both have something going for it. Yodas reflexes vs dumbledores quick mind and no need to say the word, also with stealth Rangers generous say on how fast humans process. Add that to the fact that the moment the though is finished and no need to say the word all that gives dumbledore the ability to use immobulus however, at a very close margin. Then immediamtly shoot out expulso or turn yoda into something like a glass cup or a ferret or just shrink him to an even smaller size to where can't do anything.
1c. For a shield to block/deflect something, it has to be put in between an attack and the intended target. Something that does not emanate at a straight path from the attacker, but instead, bypasses distances and hits the target directly cannot be blocked by a shield, basic logic there. Basically: you cannot block TK with a shield.
And applications of the force has bypassed physical obstacles before (and seamlessly at that), like vader/palpatine force choking ppl thru walls or inside separate star destroyers. Or when Kanan and Ezra lifted locking mechanisms inside a door (without even seeing it). Or when Yoda lifted droids inside a tank along with the hatch he just cut open and tossing them hundreds of feet in the air.
The rest of this paragraph is pure unadulterated speculation.
2. T'was a joke. Still, don't be sore if called out on your mistakes.
3. Looks more like a force wave due to how slow it was (a powerful aoe pressure wave that emanates from the force user) than a force push. Again, can't block TK. Can't apperate if you're stunned/KO'd.
4. Ignoring how the "feat" system work now? Best to learn it than ignore it if I were you. Cannot block TK with protego, sorry.
5. Yoda can't use the force seamlessly in combat and needs to buckle down and concentrate now? facepalm
Yoda literally toying with a droid force complete with tanks using the force seamlessly....
Your entire tirade doesn't make sense and has already been disproven by my last reply (20 years is nothing to Yoda and has no bearings with his empire strikes back performance vs his performance in the clone wars).
You need to learn to differentiate between proof and speculation. Get a dictionary or use google or something,
6. There is no spell that increases the physical stats and durability of the wizard. Protego can shield them but, once hit, there is no spell that that allows them to resist the damage with their bodies. Dumby is an old man with old man durability whose best durability "feat" is falling on his butt and being able to eventually stand up like an old man. Stop trying to manufacture durability that does not exist. If something can KO otherwise healthy young combat trained ppl in their prime while in armor, it can KO an old man in a robe.
7. Lifting a chair and lifting a person are different, yes. Different weights. But lifting a chair with a person (or equivalent) on it is harder than lifitng either. It is irrelevant that Skywalker wasn't completely frozen (btw, the Immobulus spell does not completely freeze you), or all intents and purposes it proves he didn't need to move as he didn't move (other than closing his eyes) when using the force. There is loterally no functional difference as he only needed to concentrate to use his abilities and Immobulus does not prevent you from concentrating.
Sooo, you're extending "feats" such as moments where other characters used different spells needing minimum gestures and then adding "Dumbledore has cast spells without words before" to justify him using no words and gestures but then refuse to extend "feats" towards force users like a basic force push without gestures when a noob like Skywalker (student of Yoda) has done an entire lift and carry without gestures? Double standards much? At this point, I don't see any point arguing with you as it seems you bend fair logical discourse rules to suit your needs.
7a. You deny a well known truth about jedi precog abilities that is even made mention/explained in the movies and elaborated on in the series? Well, that's a concession. Win for me, I guess.
"Battle applicable" lolwut? I already said that everytime they block/delfect blaster bolts, it is precog.
7b. BS. I don't have to fulfill any of your requirements as your grasp of logic and evidence is extremely rudimentary and biased. I have proven that it can be done thru walls, that it can be done without seeing your target and can be done with no gestures. It is corroborated by how masters explain the use of the force to their apprentices (the basic principle of simply to "concentrate" and no mention of either instruments nor words nor gestures) and by characters peforming them with no instruments or gestures or words and thru walls. That is all the proof I need and you denying and manufacturing your own constantly evolving, double standards proof requirements is irrelevant.
And Darth Sids used BOTH force lift and force choke on the Mandalorians. A simple force choke doesn't lift you off your feet (as demonstrated by Vader multiple times). So he performed a lift thru a large door without seeing his target.
In his entire fight with Voldy, every offensive spell he cast took both time and gestures to perform at the very least. While I can accept that he can cast Immobulus w/o words, you need to show that he or anyone below him for that matter can perform it (anything combative will do) with neither time nor gestures.
The rest below, you mever succesfully countered, so I will simply repost:
(2) We've already agreed (for fairness' sake) that Dumby can Immobulus as far as Yoda can force push. So it comes down to who can act first the second they are within range. As he cannot cast his spell while Yoda is out of range. I cannot get what is so hard to understand about that concept.
(3) And even in the tiny (less than 1%) chance that Dumby can hit him with an Immobulus first, Yoda STILL has a window to retaliate with a force push as Dumby would need to cast another spell to finish him off.