Batman VS Captain America: MA contest

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Fair enough mate. 👆

Just went through some scans posted at the tail-end of this thread, and there was one with a very interesting statement by IronFist where he says that Cap's skills are basic, but that his speed and strength are just incredible.

Here is the said scan:

http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/5097/mansion06qq7.jpg

It appears that even if Cap may be adept at all and sundry fighting styles, his level of adeptness is not exactly at the highest possible echelons. It seems like it is his sheer physiological component that seriously augments his skills, enabling a person with 'basic skills' but great speed and strength to beat someone that Cap himself says is a good enough martial artist to be compared to Mantis.

Thus, it does seem as if Bruce Wayne is a better martial artist (in terms of skill levels), but when it comes to the better fighter then Cap starts to gain an edge.

This reminds me of another character that Bruce faces who, even though he may not be as skilled as Bruce himself, has such a premium when it comes to strength and speed that even Batgirl found it next to impossible to 'read' him.

That is, Deathstroke.

From the scan it appears that Cap is a Deathstroke-lite ....in that even though he is quite skilled, his strength and speed basically take that level of skill and turn it into something that is nearly unstoppable.

MA Skill goes to Bats.

But Cap's phenomenal hand to hand combat skills plus enhanced mind, super stamina just aids him to much. Plus him being stronger, faster, more durable so on and so fourth.

Bats trained to the best of his human ability. But Cap was created to be a man unlike the world has never seen before. The maximum level of a humans potential.

Bruce puts up a better fight then most thats for sure. Cap 6/10

Flip a coin.

Batman himself admits that Captain America can conceivably beat him...

Crossover. Meh?

Captain America wins because he has the advantage of no fatigue.

Actually, http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=8716901&highlight=Kurt+userid%

Chuckg
Don't you think Batman should be able to defeat Captain America by using his leopard blow?

kurtbusiek
No, not particularly.

Chuckg
That really should be interpreted that Batman thinks he'd beat Cap, doesn't it, since Batman is the far more skilled fighter?

kurtbusiek
You can interpret it how you like, but my intent was that Batman was noting that Cap is the more skilled.

kdb

http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/web/...=0&tstart=0

It's from page 45

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Crossover. Meh?

I am not sure what you mean, but this is not like previous fan-voted crossovers. This is a Marvel and DC cooperatively sanctioned product. The very fact that they allowed this, shows both companies stances on the issue. Both are canon as well in their respective univserses since the event is later referenced in both the JLA comics and Marvel handbooks.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Actually, http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=8716901&highlight=Kurt+userid%

Originally posted by Evangel94
I am not sure what you mean, but this is not like previous fan-voted crossovers. This is a Marvel and DC cooperatively sanctioned product. The very fact that they allowed this, shows both companies stances on the issue. Both are canon as well in their respective univserses since the event is later referenced in both the JLA comics and Marvel handbooks.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Greg Pak thinks Hulk can beat everyone... Wonder Woman and She-Hulk can stop Surtur with the Twilight Sword?

It's ridiculous how you actually don't directly address any of the points and just decide to subtly change the subject. If you think that attacking the author and using red herrings is a good way to establish a credible argument, then you are sorely mistaken.

Originally posted by Evangel94
I love how you actually don't address any of the actual points and just decide to change the subject. 🙄

A good way to establish a credible argument is attack the author and use red herrings. 👆

Additionally being canon, if one considers it canon, doesn't necessarily mean that parts of it aren't flawed.

And I wasn't attacking the author, I was attacking the DevilHulkesque argument. Busiek is free to think that Captain America is more skilled, that doesn't mean anything more than Greg Pak thinking Hulk is a skyfather, on this forum.

Batman still loses. Batman is still equally if not more skilled imo.
Crossovers still aren't good references.

I am not sure what you mean, but this is not like previous fan-voted crossovers. This is a Marvel and DC cooperatively sanctioned product. The very fact that they allowed this, shows both companies stances on the issue. Both are canon as well in their respective univserses since the event is later referenced in both the JLA comics and Marvel handbooks.

also bats is not saying Captain WOULD beat him. he said its "conceivable", which we all agree so far it IS. but the point of this thread is:
a) who's the better MA
b) who'd win in a fight.

"conceivably" they can both beat each other since its not a stretch to say that Cap can beat Bats or Bats can beat Cap.

~Sado

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Greg Pak thinks Hulk can beat everyone...

Kurt is the guy that wrote the scene in question.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Kurt is the guy that wrote the scene in question.

And Greg Pak thinks Hulk can beat Thor with the Odinforce.

And Tony Bedard thinks Superman-Prime can fight anyone up to and maybe including the Beyonder.

It doesn't really hold that much weight in my opinion nor on the board, compared to what characters have done. Equally skilled is probably as far as I would go with comparing Batman and Captain America - although Batman's more plausible.

CA would win because as spetznaz pointed out he doesn't fatigue.

Fatigue doesn't always play a role in MMA, usually the better fighter wins, plain and simple. It can, but it's not always the deciding factor.

They actually had a science of the UFC episode with Tito, Couture, Rutten, at one point they were testing the build-up of fatiguing acids in Randy's blood, before he started, and after he was wrestling a guy in a chokehold, and the results showed it was LESS while he was active than it was in a standing calm state prior to the workout. This guy has had fights go the entire twenty five minute mark, and he was still as sharp at the end, as he was at the beginning. Tim Silvia fight for example. Yet, a few knocks from a better stand-up artist, like Liddell, and he's laying flat on the floor.

Royce Gracie and Sakuraba had a fight that last went nearly two hours, his fight against Shamrock [back at UFC 5] was over half an hour before they called it a draw...but that kind of longevity didn't stop Matt Hughes from TKOing him with strikes in round 1.

err....so no one answered my question: if Bruce breaks Cap's arm/puts him in submission holds, can't Cap tap out? 🙂

Originally posted by Juntai
Fatigue doesn't always play a role in MMA, usually the better fighter wins, plain and simple. It [b]can, but it's not always the deciding factor.

They actually had a science of the UFC episode with Tito, Couture, Rutten, at one point they were testing the build-up of fatiguing acids in Randy's blood, before he started, and after he was wrestling a guy in a chokehold, and the results showed it was LESS while he was active than it was in a standing calm state prior to the workout. This guy has had fights go the entire twenty five minute mark, and he was still as sharp at the end, as he was at the beginning. Tim Silvia fight for example. Yet, a few knocks from a better stand-up artist, like Liddell, and he's laying flat on the floor.

Royce Gracie and Sakuraba had a fight that last went nearly two hours, his fight against Shamrock [back at UFC 5] was over half an hour before they called it a draw...but that kind of longevity didn't stop Matt Hughes from TKOing him with strikes in round 1. [/B]

I think I'll go with an even split. Or perhaps a 5.1:4.9 as CA is still probably more likely to win any drawn out fights that they have.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
That's true. Conceivably either of them could end the fight prior to fatigue being a significant factor. hmm

I think I'll go with an even split. Or perhaps a 5.1:4.9 as CA is still probably more likely to win any drawn out fights that they have.

But yeah it could go either way. These are two of the greatest at what they do. I was just making some points.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I know... ermm

And Greg Pak thinks Hulk can beat Thor with the Odinforce.

And Tony Bedard thinks Superman-Prime can fight anyone up to and maybe including the Beyonder.

It doesn't really hold that much weight in my opinion nor on the board, compared to what characters have done. Equally skilled is probably as far as I would go with comparing Batman and Captain America - although Batman's more plausible.

CA would win because as spetznaz pointed out he doesn't fatigue.

I realize that crossovers generally don’t count, I was just clarifying the writers intent for the scene.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I realize that crossovers generally don’t count, I was just clarifying the writers intent for the scene.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Yea get the scan.

http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capironfist2kg8.jpg
http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capironfist3hi6.jpg