Frank kills the DCU (for real)

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok you can prove this can you? So you're assuming that because Batman had trouble with the ring to start off with, that it would always respond the ring better than it would with Hal? So if two people learn how to drive 1 person picks it up with less skill, we are going to assume that the person who has trouble is always going to be left behind?

Cynical of what? In general or the supernatural magic in general? Anyway I stated at the beginning of the thread that if he succeeds his family will be brought back to life and he believes it.

He has alot of willpower and time. People change over time.

You didn't answer the question.

Even with a hundred years of training, do you believe that Frank would be anywhere near the prowess of the likes of Hal or Kyle?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok you can prove this can you? So you're assuming that because Batman had trouble with the ring to start off with, that it would always respond the ring better than it would with Hal? So if two people learn how to drive 1 person picks it up with less skill, we are going to assume that the person who has trouble is always going to be left behind?

well i did read gl v4 and rebirth, so... ermm

there's a reason mogo picks particular people, because they have imagination, the abilitty to overcome fear, and the right kind of willpower... its not like some gun you can learn how to use... the ring responds better to certain types of people, thats just the way it is...

Cynical of what? In general or the supernatural magic in general? Anyway I stated at the beginning of the thread that if he succeeds his family will be brought back to life and he believes it.

cynical in general...

He has alot of willpower and time. People change over time.

thats not the point... even if frank does all you say he does, and trains as much as possible with the ring, is he going to be able to take hal or john?

Originally posted by Soljer
You didn't answer the question.

Even with a hundred years of training, do you believe that Frank would be anywhere near the prowess of the likes of Hal or Kyle?

Yeah I did.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

He has alot of willpower and time. People change over time.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah I did.

Really?

I never saw Paul ask "How much willpower does Frank have?" nor did I see him pose the question "Do peope change?"

I saw him ask "Do you believe the Punisher would be on the level of Hal or John?"

And you've dodged the question several times now. So I'll broaden it.

Do you believe that the Punisher would be on the level of ANY of the four Earth-Lanterns? Hal, Kyle, Guy, or John?

Originally posted by Raoul
well i did read gl v4 and rebirth, so... ermm

there's a reason mogo picks particular people, because they have imagination, the abilitty to overcome fear, and the right kind of willpower... its not like some gun you can learn how to use... the ring responds better to certain types of people, thats just the way it is...

You do realise that still doesnt prove that Hal will always be better than Batman? All that proves is that Hal has more potential it could be argued that after a 100 years Bats could catch up.

Originally posted by Raoul

cynical in general...

1. Im not sure if that matters because he is not cynical when trying to take people out. He demonstrates great willpower in doing what he does and the ring would feed off it.
2. In this thread he is told that if he suceeds he will get his family back, obvoulsy I stated this as an indication that Frank believes this to be possible and would power his ring.

Originally posted by Raoul

thats not the point... even if frank does all you say he does, and trains as much as possible with the ring, is he going to be able to take hal or john?

After 100 years he would be better because:

1. Not the most powerful hero but one of the greatest willpowers in the MU. Im sure there are other aspects that make you a great GL but willpower is the most important aspect. Could Hal do the tings that Frank does without the ring?
2. Even if cyncism affect the power of GL rings he believes its possible to get his family back and this will be a powerul motivating factor.
3. He has lots and lots of time

even IF frank was that level though...

he's not going to match hal AND john...

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
[B]You do realise that still doesnt prove that Hal will always be better than Batman? All that proves is that Hal has more potential it could be argued that after a 100 years Bats could catch up.

1. Im not sure if that matters because he is not cynical when trying to take people out. He demonstrates great willpower in doing what he does and the ring would feed off it.
2. In this thread he is told that if he suceeds he will get his family back, obvoulsy I stated this as an indication that Frank believes this to be possible and would power his ring.

read gl v4 issue #9, and you'll see why what you just said is just plain wrong...

After 100 years he would be better because:

1. Not the most powerful hero but one of the greatest willpowers in the MU. Im sure there are other aspects that make you a great GL but willpower is the most important aspect. Could Hal do the tings that Frank does without the ring?
2. Even if cyncism affect the power of GL rings he believes its possible to get his family back and this will be a powerul motivating factor.
3. He has lots and lots of time

so (SOMEHOW, by some fluke) he's as good as hal... hal couldnt take dc earth by himself with a few robots...

Originally posted by Soljer
Really?

I never saw Paul ask "How much willpower does Frank have?" nor did I see him pose the question "Do peope change?"

I saw him ask "Do you believe the Punisher would be on the level of Hal or John?"

And you've dodged the question several times now. So I'll broaden it.

Do you believe that the Punisher would be on the level of ANY of the four Earth-Lanterns? Hal, Kyle, Guy, or John?

So why did I say he has lots of willpower and time and as response to his question? How many times have you heard that time enables you to gain skills and become better? How many times has somebody stated that willpower enables you to achieve greater things? Right and you cant figure out what I meant?

Any of other posts about the intepretation of what I said will be ignored. Anyway doesnt matter because I answered the question in my previous post.

Originally posted by Raoul
even IF frank was that level though...

he's not going to match hal AND john...

read gl v4 issue #9, and you'll see why what you just said is just plain wrong...

I'll read it when im ready. Since you're the one making the statement you tell me what they said. 😐

edit: no need Soljet explained but that still does not prove that Frank cant reach Hals level.

Originally posted by Raoul

so (SOMEHOW, by some fluke) he's as good as hal... hal couldnt take dc earth by himself with a few robots...

They're not "robots" they're Silver Surfer stomping robots.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

After 100 years he would be better because:

1. Not the most powerful hero but one of the greatest willpowers in the MU. Im sure there are other aspects that make you a great GL but willpower is the most important aspect. Could Hal do the tings that Frank does without the ring?
2. Even if cyncism affect the power of GL rings he believes its possible to get his family back and this will be a powerul motivating factor.
3. He has lots and lots of time

Ahahahahahahahaha! 😆

Jesus Christ, I can't breathe. That's too ****ing funny.

😆 😆 😆

*wipes tears from face*

Okay. Now that I've caught my breath...

Lemme explain something. Lanterns are chosen from the DCU for their great willpower and ability to resist fear. They're chosen as the elites of their race. Paragons, as it were.

Many of the lanterns of a variety of races are quite long lived. To some of these guys, a hundred years is meaningless. They've been at the lantern game for far longer than that.

Guess what? Even being a paragon of their race for willpower and ability to resist fear. Even with a pure, non-cynical will. Even after being a lantern for far longer than a hundred years....

Hal Highball Jordan is still the best lantern in the corps. He's still numero uno. He's still the best of the best.

For you to assert that Frank Castle, a person that'd be lucky to even get the ring to SPARK, would be able to surpass Hal in a millenia of training is moronic - much less a single century.

Frank won't touch Hal. He wouldn't be worthy to clean the Guardian's shit-holes after a century of ring-slinging.

No contest. 😐.

Originally posted by Soljer
Ahahahahahahahaha! 😆

Jesus Christ, I can't breathe. That's too ****ing funny.

😆 😆 😆

*wipes tears from face*

Okay. Now that I've caught my breath...

Lemme explain something. Lanterns are chosen from the DCU for their great willpower and ability to resist fear. They're chosen as the elites of their race. Paragons, as it were.

Many of the lanterns of a variety of races are quite long lived. To some of these guys, a hundred years is meaningless. They've been at the lantern game for far longer than that.

Guess what? Even being a paragon of their race for willpower and ability to resist fear. Even with a pure, non-cynical will. Even after being a lantern for [b]far longer than a hundred years....

Hal Highball Jordan is still the best lantern in the corps. He's still numero uno. He's still the best of the best.

For you to assert that Frank Castle, a person that'd be lucky to even get the ring to SPARK, would be able to surpass Hal in a millenia of training is moronic - much less a single century.

Frank won't touch Hal. He wouldn't be worthy to clean the Guardian's shit-holes after a century of ring-slinging.

No contest. 😐. [/B]

That actually doesnt prove that Frank cant reach Hals level all that proves is that 100 years does not neccesarily help. Since Frank is not a memeber of the DCU we dont know but I would still expect 100 years to still be very helpful.

I was also under the impression that Hal is the best because he has the greatest willpower. Obvoulsy the others arent as strong as he is.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
That actually doesnt prove that Frank cant reach Hals level all that proves is that 100 years does not neccesarily help.

Perhaps I missed something.

Is this thread "Can Frank reach or exceed Hal Jordan's ring-slinging prowess given an unlimited amount of time?"

Or is it "Frank Castle fights DC Earth"?

Originally posted by Soljer
Perhaps I missed something.

Is this thread "Can Frank reach or exceed Hal Jordan's ring-slinging prowess given an unlimited amount of time?"

Or is it "Frank Castle fights DC Earth"?

You asked the question about wether Frank could be better than Hal, im just responding to that. You said that he cant touch Hal, not neccesarily.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You asked the question about wether Frank could be better than Hal, im just responding to that. You said that he cant touch Hal, not neccesarily.

Do not put words into my mouth. I asked whether you believed Frank to be Hal's superior after a century. You responded in the affirmative; that Castle WOULD be better than Jordan after just a hundred years.

I immediately dispelled such a notion for what it was; rubbish.

Further...

Since, as mentioned, after a hundred years Frank wouldn't even be powerful enough to clean the Guardian's latrines, exactly how is he going to take on DC Earth?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I'll read it when im ready. Since you're the one making the statement you tell me what they said. 😐

edit: no need Soljet explained but that still does not prove that Frank cant reach Hals level.

They're not "robots" they're Silver Surfer stomping robots.

ill just post it instead...

if that doesnt illustrate just WHY it would be insanely hard for frank to use the ring, then i give up...

Originally posted by Soljer
Do not put words into my mouth. I asked whether you believed Frank to be Hal's superior after a century. You responded in the affirmative; that Castle WOULD be better than Jordan after just a hundred years.

Oh sorry I forgot to add 100 years in my post but I guess you couldnt figure out thats what I was refering to. I guess I always have to say yes and no I cant find other ways of saying it as well.

Originally posted by Soljer

I immediately dispelled such a notion for what it was; rubbish.

Er you just proved that it may not neccesarily be true.

Originally posted by Soljer

Further...

Since, as mentioned, after a hundred years Frank wouldn't even be powerful enough to clean the Guardian's latrines, exactly how is he going to take on DC Earth?

No you didnt prove it. All you proved is that some Gls are older than 100s and are not better than Hal. That still doesnt change the fact that willpower is an important parts of using the GL ring and after 100 years even if hes not as good as Hal he should at least be average especially if hes getting personal tution.

He should still be at some average skill level with the ring. He still has the Punisher robots he is an expert on building modifying and maintaining them. They are Galactus level tech and should be able to modify them to make them stealthy enough to avoid detection. He also has a map with basic information on every aspect of the DCU, so he knows that certain people have defences in certain places he doesnt know in-depth what they have but will possibly will be able to think of different alternatives of stealth.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

No you didnt prove it. All you proved is that some Gls are older than 100s and are not better than Hal. That still doesnt change the fact that willpower is an important parts of using the GL ring and after 100 years even if hes not as good as Hal he should at least be average especially if hes getting personal tution.

These lanterns that have been at it for over a century have some of the strongest willpower in the universe and have trained with the likes of the Muskateers and Kilowog. 🤨.

Originally posted by Raoul
ill just post it instead...

if that doesnt illustrate just WHY it would be insanely hard for frank to use the ring, then i give up...

1. It shows Batman was able to use the ring at his first attempt.
2. In this thread Frank is using the power of the death of his family to power the ring. In the scans you posted the death of his family hindered his power, that is not the case in this thread.

Theres not thing to "I give up" about. Hell it could be argued from that post if it wasnt for the death of his parents that actually after 100 years he could catch up with Hal....possibly. 131

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I didnt miss the point

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
and I dont miss the point often.

Originally posted by Soljer
These lanterns that have been at it for over a century have some of the strongest willpower in the [b]universe and have trained with the likes of the Muskateers and Kilowog. 🤨. [/B]

Frank is not a member of the DCU so we dont know how powerful it is. Frank Castle may not be a cosmic being but probably has one of the strongest willpower in marvel comics. Hell even Ulik commented him on his courage and was willing to blow himself up along with Ulik. One of the reason why he has so much damage soak is because of his determination, can Hal do the stuff that Frank does without the ring?

As the scans show bitterness does reduce the power of the ring, that power in this case is going to increase his power instead of hindering. It could be argued that combined with his will would make him a formidable GL.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Frank is not a member of the DCU so we dont know how powerful it is. Frank Castle may not be a cosmic being but probably has one of the strongest willpower in marvel comics. Hell even Ulik commented him on his courage and was willing to blow himself up along with Ulik. One of the reason why he has so much damage soak is because of his determination, can Hal do the stuff that Frank does without the ring?

As the scans show bitterness does reduce the power of the ring, that power in this case is going to increase his power instead of hindering. It could be argued that combined with his will would make him a formidable GL.

Hal's willpower is so strong, that (without the ring) he displayed low-level telekinesis. Not due to magic, cosmic power, or mutation, but sheer will-power.

Meaning, though it was low-level telekinesis, Hal Jordan displayed the ability to warp reality through willpower alone.

Get back to me when Frank Castle has a chance in hell of doing something similar.