Silver Surfer and Superman throw down like men...

but you are applying double-standards in your reasoning there.
if you demand scans to accept the simple conclusion that Surfer's speed (which is instantaneous) is applicable in battles too, then you should provide scans for your hypothesis that Superman has Surfer level durability.

I mean, off the top of my head, I can tell you that Surfer must be more durable to be able to negate the affects of ALL cosmic radiation upon his person, which Superman cannot do, he cannot endure Kryptonite nor Red Sun radiation... that is a durability issue is it not?

also Surfer's durability is far more than sufficient to cope with anything Superman has to offer in terms of offense. consider the kind of punishment Surfer has taken from beings far and away more powerful than Superman. Galactus has blasted Surfer, T&A have gone to work on him big time and of course there's UniLord a dimensional God who couldn't kill him.

I don't see how you can possibly argue that Superman's fists now somehow create enough force to do what T&A could not 😐.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah.

I Suppose Doomsday would be the classic answer to that, or did you mean longer?

Doomsday?

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
I Suppose Doomsday would be the classic answer to that, or did you mean longer?

Banner-less Hulk > Doomsday? 😕

Originally posted by janus77
but you are applying double-standards in your reasoning there.
if you demand scans to accept the simple conclusion that Surfer's speed (which is instantaneous) is applicable in battles too, then you should provide scans for your hypothesis that Superman has Surfer level durability.

I mean, off the top of my head, I can tell you that Surfer must be more durable to be able to negate the affects of ALL cosmic radiation upon his person, which Superman cannot do, he cannot endure Kryptonite nor Red Sun radiation... that is a durability issue is it not?

also Surfer's durability is far more than sufficient to cope with anything Superman has to offer in terms of offense. consider the kind of punishment Surfer has taken from beings far and away more powerful than Superman. Galactus has blasted Surfer, T&A have gone to work on him big time and of course there's UniLord a dimensional God who couldn't kill him.

I don't see how you can possibly argue that Superman's fists now somehow create enough force to do what T&A could not 😐.

These are good points, however, Thanos knocked out Surfer in 4-5 punches, and i consider Superman stronger than a casual Thanos.

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
I Suppose Doomsday would be the classic answer to that, or did you mean longer?

So let me ask you this, if Superman can take shots for an extended period from someone who's strength is on par with(or even exceeds) his own and you consider Surfer and Supes to be peers in the durability department, wouldn't that mean that Surfer can also withstand an extended beating from someone who's strength is on par with(or even exceeds) Supes?

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
These are good points, however, Thanos knocked out Surfer in 4-5 punches, and i consider Superman stronger than a casual Thanos.

but more important is the realisation that Surfer has been substantially upgraded since those fights. for instance the upgrade he got when he took in a piece of DeathUrge, or when he consumed the "blackbodies" that UniLord was feeding on or, most recently of all, the upgrade that Galactus explicitly states he gave Surfer during annihilation.

Originally posted by darthgoober
DD's just fine as an example.

So let me ask you this, if Superman can take shots for an extended period from someone who's strength is on par with(or even exceeds) his own and you consider Surfer and Supes to be peers in the durability department, wouldn't that suggest that Surfer can also withstand an extended beating from someone who's strength is on par with(or even exceeds) Supes?

Lol i see what you did there 🙂

Then it would come down to the better fighter, and physically stronger, and more skilled, which would be Superman.

I'm not sure about this though, as i said earlier somewhere, but can Surfer amp WHILE being attacked/ punched?
Because if not, then he will have to fight with his normal strength, while great, IMO isn't enough.

If Surfer can amp, and heal himself WHILE taking a beating from the temporarily stronger and more skilled fighter, then eventaully he would surpass Superman, if he's not knocked out, but if he can't perform these feats while being attacked, then Surfers in trouble.

I'm trying not to forget Surfers other powers here, so feel free to remind me at any time, it's just i feel that Surfer will be forced into a fist fight more often than not.

I'm getting double teamed here 🙁

Goober stated Surfer gets the time to amp himself to Superman level if I am not mistaken.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Goober stated Surfer gets the time to amp himself to Superman level if I am not mistaken.

If you're referring to his second post in this thread, the way i understood it was that Surfer could amp DURING the fight, not before it.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Goober stated Surfer gets the time to amp himself to Superman level if I am not mistaken.

Originally posted by darthgoober
No he doesn't start off amped to Supes's level of strength, he's just allowed to amp. Starting him out at Supes's strength level would be utter spite because then it would just be Supes vs Supes+.

Superman vs Superman w/ Surfers powerset probably wouldn't be fair lol.

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
Lol i see what you did there 🙂

Then it would come down to the better fighter, and physically stronger, and more skilled, which would be Superman.

I'm not sure about this though, as i said earlier somewhere, but can Surfer amp WHILE being attacked/ punched?
Because if not, then he will have to fight with his normal strength, while great, IMO isn't enough.

If Surfer can amp, and heal himself WHILE taking a beating from the temporarily stronger and more skilled fighter, then eventaully he would surpass Superman, if he's not knocked out, but if he can't perform these feats while being attacked, then Surfers in trouble.

I'm trying not to forget Surfers other powers here, so feel free to remind me at any time, it's just i feel that Surfer will be forced into a fist fight more often than not.

And don't think I'm trying to say that Surfer stomps Supes in this fight, because I'm not. The main reason I made it was to show that Surfer and Supes are peers even if Surfer DOESN'T exploit Supes's weaknesses because all too often Supes's fans try to say that without that option Surfer's screwed. If the two fight "in character" under the thread conditions, I actually say they split it 5/10.

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
IMO, by removing these exploitations from Surfers arsenal, you're also removing his ability to win.

Superman wins.

Originally posted by darthgoober
It's almost never even made clear when Surfer's actually amping, it's just demonstrated in his ability to go h2h with guys stronger than him.

And don't think I'm trying to say that Surfer stomps Supes in this fight, because I'm not. The main reason I made it was to show that Surfer and Supes are peers even if Surfer DOESN'T exploit Supes's weaknesses because all too often Supes's fans try to say that without that option Surfer's screwed. If the two fight "in character" under the thread conditions, I actually say they split it 5/10.

If i was an unreasonable person i would say that in that case Surfer doesn't have the ability to amp because there have not been any occasions of him doing so, but i'm aware of his power set and self amping fits into it somewhat so i'll give you the benefit of the doubt with that one.

I'd give Supes and Surfer a 5/10 split when there are no stipulations, because i believe they both possess the tools to beat each other. And i think i said this in the other post, Surfers power set seems more Anti-Superman, then Supermans does Anti-Surfer.
But with that said, i've always thought that if the fight is up close and personal, then Superman will have the advantage in strength, skill, speed (battle speed) and the ability to take a punch from someone as strong/ stronger than himself (Surfer does too, but Superman i feel moreso due to his fighting nature).
So in close quarters fighting, i feel that Superman will win more often that not.
Without the ability to exploit Supermans weaknesses, and even if he could, he would have to drain him extremely quickly with great potency, i feel the fight swinging in Supermans direction more then Surfers.

With Surfer amping 5/10 split

Without Surfer amping 7/10 Superman.

My main reason for this is because i feel the fight will be taken to Surfer hard and fast, and Superman has the advantage in every CLOSE RANGE FIGHTING category.

I think this is reasonably fair.

Originally posted by darthgoober
It's almost never even made clear when Surfer's actually amping, it's just demonstrated in his ability to go h2h with guys stronger than him.

And don't think I'm trying to say that Surfer stomps Supes in this fight, because I'm not. The main reason I made it was to show that Surfer and Supes are peers even if Surfer DOESN'T exploit Supes's weaknesses because all too often Supes's fans try to say that without that option Surfer's screwed. If the two fight "in character" under the thread conditions, I actually say they split it 5/10.

if you ask me; in character they wouldn't even fight. Supes is a boy scout that always holds back and usually takes a few punches until he finally decides to fight back. Surfer is a pacifist, but this may have changed after he became Big G's herald again--please clear this for me.

Superman.

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
If i was an unreasonable person i would say that in that case Surfer doesn't have the ability to amp because there have not been any occasions of him doing so, but i'm aware of his power set and self amping fits into it somewhat so i'll give you the benefit of the doubt with that one.

Oh it's been concretely established on panel to be one of his abilities, it's just not something that gets mentioned all that often...
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7291/ffv15511ampingjv0.jpg
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/3043/ffv15512amping2qv5.jpg

And if you're wondering why Surfer's base strength was less than Thing's in that instance, it's from his period of being depowered on Earth.

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
I'd give Supes and Surfer a 5/10 split when there are no stipulations, because i believe they both possess the tools to beat each other. And i think i said this in the other post, Surfers power set seems more Anti-Superman, then Supermans does Anti-Surfer.
But with that said, i've always thought that if the fight is up close and personal, then Superman will have the advantage in strength, skill, speed (battle speed) and the ability to take a punch from someone as strong/ stronger than himself (Surfer does too, but Superman i feel moreso due to his fighting nature).
So in close quarters fighting, i feel that Superman will win more often that not.
Without the ability to exploit Supermans weaknesses, and even if he could, he would have to drain him extremely quickly with great potency, i feel the fight swinging in Supermans direction more then Surfers.

With Surfer amping 5/10 split

Without Surfer amping 7/10 Superman.

My main reason for this is because i feel the fight will be taken to Surfer hard and fast, and Superman has the advantage in every CLOSE RANGE FIGHTING category.

I think this is reasonably fair.