Stayne Vs Thanos.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I didn't say that they HAD to expend all their energy for the term to be applicable, in fact I specifically listed your interpretation as being just as valid as SM's.

And truth be told, there are far more characters who've NEVER went all out than there are characters who have. Thanos, Surfer, Odin... hell Jubilee for that matter, we've never positively seen ANY of their maximum power output because none of them have ever been given a definite limit yet.

Yes it did prove that Thanos could take Odin's power in the manner in which you're speaking, but it in no way indicated that he could handle Odin's power in the way that SM is referring to. That's why I said that your two are debating different things. And you know what... you're both right. Odin WAS trying his damnedest to put Thanos down(which is what you're saying), but at no point was it established that Odin was putting all the energy he had available into a major assault on Thanos(which is what SM is saying). See you're arguing that Odin was fighting at peak capacity(which he was) and SM is arguing that Odin never went Sentry/WWH on Thanos.

That's why the debate is pointless.

Not really unless your point is that Odin's wasn't shown to go all out in the manner to which SM's referring to in his fight with Thanos. If he's still got energy left to fight with, then he didn't release ALL of his power at his opponent.

Different writers interpret power levels differently. This writer gave us the only fight concerning these two. Thanos seemed more than capable of taking Odin's assault. Thanos didnt seem like he had the overall power at the time of this fight to beat Odin.

Sentry vs. WW Hulk is pointless to relate to this because very few characters have ever burned themselves out battling another one. To me, a character doesnt have to burn themselves out to prove they were going all out.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Is that a "yes" to my question?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Odin wanted to beat both Seth and Thanos.

So you're saying that Odin used the same amount of power in both fights?

Originally posted by Silent Master
So you're saying that Odin used the same amount of power in both fights?

Originally posted by quanchi112
he wasnt holding back in either case. Thats what I am saying.

That wasn't the question I asked.

I asked if Odin used the same amount of power in both fights, it's a simple yes or no question.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Isn't this really a no-limits fallacy to say Odin wasn't going all out? Because by that logic you can just say that whoever he stalemated he would have easily beat had he gone all out.

Odin vs. Celestials? Doesn't count, he wasn't going all out.

Saying "Odin couldn't put down Thanos when they were fighting" is absolutely accurate. But saying that Odin was OR wasn't going all out is pure speculation because it was never covered.

It's no different than assuming that Flash is going at his maximum speed during a blitz without it expressly being stated just because he's pissed off at his opponent.

I'm talking in reference to people like Galen who keep saying "Odin was holding back in that fight."

Originally posted by Silent Master
That wasn't the question I asked.

I asked if Odin used the same amount of power in both fights, it's a simple yes or no question.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Odin wanted to put both down. different writers have different characters doing different things. Both writers had intended for Odin to try his hardest to put down both Thanos and Seth.

Again, that isn't the question I asked.

I asked a simple yes or no question, did Odin use the same amount of power in both fights?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ok,so you agree that Odin tried his hardest. Thats all i was saying. Thanos and Odin were both trying to defeat the other one and werent holding anything back. Thats my point.

Different writers interpret power levels differently. This writer gave us the only fight concerning these two. Thanos seemed more than capable of taking Odin's assault. Thanos didnt seem like he had the overall power at the time of this fight to beat Odin.

Sentry vs. WW Hulk is pointless to relate to this because very few characters have ever burned themselves out battling another one. To me, a character doesnt have to burn themselves out to prove they were going all out.

But characters burning out is no where near as uncommon as you'd think, and it's almost always accompanied by a statement that actually indicates their putting everything they have into their attack. Sentry/WWH, Supes/DD(from the DOS saga), Ironman/Surfer, Ironman/Hulk, and any number of other confrontations in comics all end the exact same way. A statement is made about their putting everything they have into their attack, they attack, they're drained and helpless(and often collapse) when the attack is finished.

Now that kind of thing doesn't happen all that often compared to the total number of fights that go down in comics, but the reason for that is because it's a last ditch effort tactic that most characters refrain from because of the vulnerability that follows. Think of it in terms of boxing. An uppercut is a boxer's most powerful punch and has the absolute highest damage output and KO capacity but it's not used as often as crosses and hooks because it's more tiring, harder to land, and leaves you open if you miss. Now that doesn't mean that someone who's throwing a barrage of hooks and crosses at full strength instead relying solely on uppercuts is intentionally holding back against his opponent though, it just means that for whatever reason he decided a different and smarter tactic.

Whether or not Thanos successfully took Odin's "uppercut" in no way takes away from the fact that he took every jab, cross, and hook that Odin threw his way and kept on coming back for more. But at the same time, Thanos successfully taking all those jabs, hooks, and crosses doesn't mean that someone can say he took an uppercut if one was never thrown during the fight.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Again, that isn't the question I asked.

I asked a simple yes or no question, did Odin use the same amount of power in both fights?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Cool.

But characters burning out is no where near as uncommon as you'd think, and it's almost always accompanied by a statement that actually indicates their putting everything they have into their attack. Sentry/WWH, Supes/DD(from the DOS saga), Ironman/Surfer, Ironman/Hulk, and any number of other confrontations in comics all end the exact same way. A statement is made about their putting everything they have into their attack, they attack, they're drained and helpless(and often collapse) when the attack is finished.

Now that kind of thing doesn't happen all that often compared to the total number of fights that go down in comics, but the reason for that is because it's a last ditch effort tactic that most characters refrain from because of the vulnerability that follows. Think of it in terms of boxing. An uppercut is a boxer's most powerful punch and has the absolute highest damage output and KO capacity but it's not used as often as crosses and hooks because it's more tiring, harder to land, and leaves you open if you miss. Now that doesn't mean that someone who's throwing a barrage of hooks and crosses at full strength instead relying solely on uppercuts is intentionally holding back against his opponent though, it just means that for whatever reason he decided a different and smarter tactic.

Whether or not Thanos successfully took Odin's "uppercut" though in no way takes away from the fact that he took every jab, cross, and hook that Odin threw his way and kept on coming back for more. But at the same time, Thanos successfully taking all those jabs, hooks, and crosses doesn't mean that someone can say he took an uppercut if one was never thrown during the fight.

We shouldnt reference other high moments of Odin and compare it to this struggle. Different writer. Just because owaw Superman pulls off some nutty shit,that doesnt mean if he doesnt pull tha same type of shit out again in a future comic that Superman was holding back. Feel me?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes,they both did according to each writer. The same writer obviously, didnt write both of these stories.

Try again, this time leave out the qualifiers and give me a direct answer.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I understand what you are saying. I get the point. Its just I thought warlocks words,coupled with Odin admitting he was out to kill Thanos that he wasnt holding back. There is nothing in that particular comic to suggest he was. Now,if we get and lump all of Odin's appearances and his highest moments then it looks like collateral damage wise he could have thrown more. But,different strokes for different folks. This writer saw Thanos more than able to withstand an "out for the kill"Odin. Thats all we can go on.

We shouldnt reference other high moments of Odin and compare it to this struggle. Different writer. Just because owaw Superman pulls off some nutty shit,that doesnt mean if he doesnt pull tha same type of shit out again in a future comic that Superman was holding back. Feel me?

Having an opinion one way or the other is fine, my issue is with people assuming either way with certainty without it being specifically stated.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Try again, this time leave out the qualifiers and give me a direct answer.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Indeed I do and I agree completely. It's really no different than Surfer's fights since he easily created a blackhole with an energy blast. Just because black holes don't form when he blasts his opponents now it doesn't necessarily mean that he's holding back, it could mean he's using a different type of blast and different blasts do different things depending on the specific type of energy utilized for the attack in question(or any number of other variables).

Having an opinion one way or the other is fine, my issue is with people assuming either way with certainty without it being specifically stated.

I think the reason Thanos gets called out here is because most cant accept Thanos taking Odin's shit. They need to justify it by saying that Odin was holding back even though I dont think there is any evidence to suggest that in this comic.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I have answered you.

No, you gave an answer and then added qualifiers to it so as to make the answer worthless for what I was asking.

I didn't ask if each of the writers wrote what they thought was Odin's power level, I asked if Odin actually used the same amount of power, as in, would Thanos have fared as well if he replaced Seth during that battle?

Originally posted by quanchi112
I think the reason Thanos gets called out here is because most cant accept Thanos taking Odin's shit. They need to justify it by saying that Odin was holding back even though I dont think there is any evidence to suggest that in this comic.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I understand, but you have to be careful not to swing to far to the other side of the fence too. Let Galan and the other guys make the baseless claim that Odin was holding back, it's better to point out their error in reasoning than to start espousing it yourself with the claim that he was going all out. It's an effective tactic in showing others the folly in their thinking, but if you start it then technically they're showing you the folly of yours.

All I ever said was"IMO I don't think Odin was going all out" and it isnt to justify anything. Looking from the context of the story, Odin isnt a merciless tyrant out for blood and he doesnt kill people for no good reason. He didnt have the motive to be bloodlusted or kill Thanos for no good reason...are we to expect Odin just goes around killing peeps now for the thrill of it. The narrative in the fight and even Odins own words imply he migh have underestimated Thanos but was soon ready to put some real effort into the battle.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
All I ever said was"IMO I don't think Odin was going all out" and it isnt to justify anything. Looking from the context of the story, Odin isnt a merciless tyrant out for blood and he doesnt kill people for no good reason. He didnt have the motive to be bloodlusted or kill Thanos for no good reason...are we to expect Odin just goes around killing peeps now for the thrill of it. The narrative in the fight and even Odins own words imply he migh have underestimated Thanos but was soon ready to put some real effort into the battle.

Originally posted by joshypooh
Did you miss the scan from a few pages back? He admitted he wanted to kill Thanos. He kinda has a rep.

I saw it, still doesnt convince he was trully bloolusted.