If I may intervene. The spy issue comes from the fact that Goober's team means to use cosmic awareness to know that its being spied on, he gets no other information than that. He says that since he is not really spying in any strategy other than knowing that he is being spied on, its a legal movement. Digi argues that its not.
Thats the issue.
Originally posted by Bentley
If I may intervene. The spy issue comes from the fact that Goober's team means to use cosmic awareness to know that its being spied on, he gets no other information than that. He says that since he is not really spying in any strategy other than knowing that he is being spied on, its a legal movement. Digi argues that its not.Thats the issue.
Don't know if it's too early to vote but I don't think I'm going to be by a computer until the end of the day.
Though I believe Digi managed to prove that Goob won't have those billions of SuferAdaptoids I do think he can get two or three up and running without being unreasonable.
The claim that Lex and Reed won't work together is slightly absurd. Reed has worked with villains in the past and Lex has worked with heroes in the past. All it takes is the right situation (which they are certainly in even ignoring the 'motivation'😉
All in all I vote for Goober.A squad of Herald types with huge intellectual backing and a vast array of powers seems like too much for Digi to handle.
Great work to both of you. Debates like this remind me of why I enjoy them so much.
Originally posted by Evangel94
Well both of you are very methodical with your scanning and replying, I'll definitely give you that. Answer me this if you can; given that both write-ups are rather grandiose, let's for the sake of argument, disregard the write-ups for a moment. Simply a straight power to power match up.If this battle was reduced to Darthgoober's team against Digimark007's team, who would win if nothing significant is done with the 15 minute prep for either side? Both sides just fighting head to head.
Take a look at the tiers thread.
Silver Surfer- High Herald
Adaptoid - Mid Herald
Thor - High Herald
Doctor - Transcendant.
Remove prep and he has exactly 1 character in this fight. I have The Doctor, who could easily school Surfer, and Thor, who has beaten Surfer before.
Originally posted by darthgoober
It’s a definite possibility given the array of powers at my disposal. You have to remember that if the several million or so copies of Thor's hammer are even a 10th as powerful as the real thing, that’ll still be more than enough to absorb all the blast. 1 hammer is sufficient to absorb a blast capable of destroying a fifth of the universe so if the replicas are 10th as powerful a million(just one million mind you) of the original then their combined absorption would be sufficient to absorb a blast capable of destroying the entire universe 20,000 times over(seriously, do the math). And that’s just one million hammers, keep in mind I actually have quite a few more at my disposal.
And you still have to realize that an already-overwhelmed Adaptoid isn't even going to have time to do this before he's a cosmic smear on the wall, or just disintegrated into nothingness.
Remember, we can fire as long as we want. I already have Thor's hammer and Doctor's shield. You have the vague assumption that you can do anything about my gun.
Originally posted by darthgoober
As I’ve already explained there won’t be anywhere near that much energy present because of all the absorbing going on,
But you only have a few Adaptoids, at best, and the energy would just keep coming.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Do you think that the Doctor can somehow do those two jobs while he’s being assaulted? I have more than enough adaptoids to take out the gun, the Doctor, and the rest of your team simultaneously.
2 jobs ins't much. And the assaults are being turned into rain, or absorbed by Thor.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Wait a second let me get this strait, your going to fill the entire dome with energy while moving the gun around, and you’re going to have Thor do an area wide absorption field around the gun to protect it from incoming energy attacks…. how the Hell is that going to work? If the gun is shooting from INSIDE the energy soak(which it would have to be to protect it from incoming energy attacks) then it would mean that Thor absorbs the energy wouldn’t it?
I never stated that the gun was inside. It's not. And if it's damaged, The Doctor can simply rebuild it instantly.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Meh, doesn’t matter because as I already pointed out the entirety of the blast will be absorbed by the hammers of my Adaptoid’s or Thor himself.
Yeah, all 5 of them.
🙄
He doesn’t have to use them as well he just has to know their capabilities, and he does. Here we see Adaptoid using Mar-Vell’s powers…
Originally posted by darthgoober
…Adaptoid gains an instinctive knowledge of ALL the powers of characters he copies. He may not use them as effectively in battle, but he knows what they are and how to use them.
Knowledge of how to use the powers is differrent than experience using them. I have knowledge of how to use a GL ring. Does that mean I can replicate Hal's feats? Of course not.
What you're arguing is similarly ludicrous. Cap stated it well in the earlier scans as well.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The claim that Lex and Reed won't work together is slightly absurd. Reed has worked with villains in the past and Lex has worked with heroes in the past. All it takes is the right situation (which they are certainly in even ignoring the 'motivation'😉
👆
What he said.
Though I'm a bit mystified that you think goober will only have a few adaptoids, AND my team will work together fine, but you still voted for goober. A Galactus-busting weapon that I can reform with a thought, in addition to my base team, isn't enough to take out a few herald level beings?
In any case, glad you're enjoying the match.
...
Misconceptions
Thor has blocked blasts from Surfer before, has flown 3x the speed of light, and could release omni-directional lightning to stun and/or kill his team at any time. A lot is made of Surfer's speed, but the fact is, Thor can match him if needed. But it wouldn't be because of the gun. I'm not at my own cpu right now, but once I get homw I can produce scans for all of this.
The Doctor could just telekinetically hold goober's team back while the gun takes care of them. This is the man who held Italy in place, and rather easily at that.
I have many more options than goober, and these are among them. He has to hope that he can answer my superior firepower, all the while also hoping that the judges buy his insane prep. Surfer's power is finite, Adaptoid's experience with Surfer's power, or even using many powers of his own, is zero, and he's tried about 4-5 different half-assed ways to counter the gun (which I can always rebuild) because none of them work well enough to stick with it.
He can't do them all, or even any one of them. There's maybe a dozen Adaptoids in this fight, and they all die in the opening seconds. End of story.
Ah Digi, touched on some issues that I had noticed. I am not going to vote now, but I will address my concern. It seems that Goob is applying a CBR Silver Surfer. 16,384 SA was already a fanatical number, 6 billion is now touching a vary extremist figgure. I cant buy, either scenario at least not with what I am shown.
I need to emphasize in the difference in rebuilding/fixing and creating.
Creating complex mechanical machinery is one thing. Meaning; look I just created a car, that runs on water out of thin air. - That my friend is creating.
Rebuilding/Fixing is a different ball park all together. Example: I will now transmutation the non working parts of this automobile into working ones. Thus the automobile will be a working one.
You cant mix one with the other, yes at the end they both have a working auto’s; however different means where applied.
The examples given, for creating where nothing more then re-arranging that which was already their. Quasimodo - was already a machine, molecules where re-arranged to improve its body.
A City was laid a waste, and then restored.
You see the examples given to which, he will Create are not the ones suffice to sell his claim.
Justifiably can Silver Adap. create? Yes, however creating a rod embedded with power of cosmic is much simpler then, creating mid herald level android. The rate of his creation will take a huge plunge.
The Reprogramming feat, is not a concrete one either.
Silver Surfer’s blast, by passed the robots shielding. This was in effort to damage a specific sensor. That is not re-programming, that’s more along of sabotage malfunction.
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/4931/silversurfervol3012ti7.jpg
The second scan, is questionable as well. I have a question, who transmitted the information? Was it Silver Surfer, the Girl, or someone else?
I ask this because, Surfer responds: he does not understand….yet once their was a information exchange, he comes to comprehend.
http://img236.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sstpty7.jpg
I think id touched on it quite well, and actually mentioned a lot of the things I said earlier about the sketchy nature of his scans. Goober is trying to justify billions of Adaptoids based of some feats of Surfer reprogramming already-built computers (and as stated earlier, I broke down teh scans individually and showed why each wasn't even reprogramming so much as just luck or blasting the correct panel).
Various Adaptoid templates don't add anything to the equation, espcially given Surfer's finite power combined with the severe inexperience of Adaptoid at wielding multiple powers at once, including the masterful skill with Surfer's power that he would need to even have a prayer at this.
Like I said toward the beggining: My plan is built upon a solid foundation of established powers. Goober's is sepculating wildly. I can't see how anyone outside of the most irrational Surfer fanboy would believe that he'd make even hundreds of dupes, let alone billions.
With Great Power Comes....Victory
Goober's plan is heavy-handed, flawed, and inelegant. And in one fell swoop (the Galactus-buster) I can overpower him. It can be rebuilt, and fired as long as I need to.
Oh, and as for his silly speed advantage, I think he forgot that Lex's suits grant us a measure of super-speed. Not that it matters though, since the spread from my weapon will engulf the battlefield (except for my well-defended corner), and kill goober's 4-5 duplicates.
Backpedal
When a person senses that maybe their plan isn't working, they usually try a "well I win anyway" scenario because they realize most judges won't buy their prep. That said, let's check in on goober...
Originally posted by darthgoober
Since I’m currently unable to sleep anyway, I figured I’d cover the outcome of a worst case scenario for my guy. This scenario is of course that my prep was way off and I’d only end up with a couple of adaptoids fighting with me.Well in that case I’d just be a little more aggressive in the destruction of Digi’s team. With no(or few) adaptoid’s to fight with me it’s a simply matter of teleporting and having one of them attack the Doctor(who’s multitasking as it is I’d like to point out) while I attack Thor with the powers of Thor himself(who I already have a template for), Mar-Vell, and Captain America(as well as the Silver Surfer himself)and keep him from absorbing attacks on Digi’s big gun by any remaining adaptoid’s(who‘ll take it out with a single blast). Lex’s Super suits would easy fall to someone with the powers of the Silver Surfer, who could render the suites primary systems useless with a small application of the Power Cosmic…
This is just disrespect to Thor. And Doctor. And my team. If they all manage to teleport inside the Doctor's field (not sure if that would work in the first place) we're fighting on even terms and will donkey-swamp them. If it's, say, 4-on-4, The Doctor can swing the gun around to fire at everyone and turn us all intangible, or Thor could absorb their blasts (yes, he's fast enough and has done it numerous times) while we beat down on them mercilessly with Superman-level suits. Or Doctor could grow to the size of a building and grant himself Class Ridiculous strength and beat them himself. At base levels, this isn't even a contest.
And my prep works fine. His doesn't.
And presuming to have any idea how to easily incapacitate our suits is speculation at its best. They won't have the first idea of how to do so, and will have to take us down the hard way. And we all know that won't work.
Originally posted by darthgoober
[B]A. Surfer can transmute complex devices like the Super Adapoids body in seconds and with ease… [/B]
No, he can create all sorts of <<<<<<<<< Adaptoid things easily. And that's Surfer, not Adaptoid with Surfer's power, which would take even longer due to lack of experience.
His scans are all rehashes of older stuff. it's all he has to hang his tenuous plan on. Rebuilding things that were built already, or blindly firing at things and calling it "programming." That's it.
You didn't draft Galactus. You drafted his herald. The enormity of this plan (and its absurdity) keeps making me think you're mistaking one for the other.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Digi is quite simply and out manned and out gunned with NO real chance at victory against this kind of opposition.
Outgunned?!?! That's a joke, right?
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Take a look at the tiers thread.Silver Surfer- High Herald
Adaptoid - Mid Herald
Thor - High Herald
Doctor - Transcendant.Remove prep and he has exactly 1 character in this fight. I have The Doctor, who could easily school Surfer, and Thor, who has beaten Surfer before.
Are you telling me that the Doctor is above herald level despite you drafting him for 6 points? His power level may get reduced to the maximum Herald level allows if that is the case.
Originally posted by Evangel94
Are you telling me that the Doctor is above herald level despite you drafting him for 6 points? His power level may get reduced to the maximum Herald level allows if that is the case.
Dr. Strange and Dr. Fate are in the same class too, and at least Strange is arguably > Doctor in terms of feats. And these 3 are all severely limited by the various banned powers, since all 3 of them have most of them (time manip, BFR, etc.). I didn't do anything that others didn't confirm before me in the drafts.
In any case, if he has a moment's time to form some shields, he's > Surfer at base levels. Not by a lot, especially with the banned powers, but there's still more potential there. The only scenario he'd lose consistently is a straight-up speedblitz, since he's not as fast or as durable as Surfer at base levels, but the Superman-suits I made account for that.
Originally posted by DigiMark007which one is the truth?
Take a look at the tiers thread.Silver Surfer- High Herald
Adaptoid - Mid Herald
Thor - High Herald
Doctor - Transcendant.Remove prep and he has exactly 1 character in this fight. I have The Doctor, who could easily school Surfer, and Thor, who has beaten Surfer before.
About the spy thing...even though darthgoober didn't buy spying, there is no way in hell his character would be oblivious to the fact that something is spying on him, and naturally the character would go find out what it was, so even though it seems like a loophole, it would be asinine to say that goober's character would not use the spy portal against digimark's team.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
👆What he said.
Though I'm a bit mystified that you think goober will only have a few adaptoids, AND my team will work together fine, but you still voted for goober. A Galactus-busting weapon that I can reform with a thought, in addition to my base team, isn't enough to take out a few herald level beings?
I have a high opinion of Surfer and his abilities. His charge that the gun would have to leave a opening is quite reasonable and enough to gain the element of surprise.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
And you still have to realize that an already-overwhelmed Adaptoid isn't even going to have time to do this before he's a cosmic smear on the wall, or just disintegrated into nothingness.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Remember, we can fire as long as we want. I already have Thor's hammer and Doctor's shield. You have the vague assumption that you can do anything about my gun.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
I never stated that the gun was inside. It's not. And if it's damaged, The Doctor can simply rebuild it instantly.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Knowledge of how to use the powers is differrent than experience using them. I have knowledge of how to use a GL ring. Does that mean I can replicate Hal's feats? Of course not.What you're arguing is similarly ludicrous. Cap stated it well in the earlier scans as well.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
[b]MisconceptionsThor has blocked blasts from Surfer before, has flown 3x the speed of light, and could release omni-directional lightning to stun and/or kill his team at any time. A lot is made of Surfer's speed, but the fact is, Thor can match him if needed. But it wouldn't be because of the gun. I'm not at my own cpu right now, but once I get homw I can produce scans for all of this.[/B]
Originally posted by DigiMark007
The Doctor could just telekinetically hold goober's team back while the gun takes care of them. This is the man who held Italy in place, and rather easily at that.
Surfer absorbing telekinetic energy…
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/9079/silversurferv3144p06ya2.jpg
Adaptoid adapting to energy…
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/362/captainamerica441takingjv7.jpg
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/739/captainamerica441takingxv3.jpg
More problems with Digi’s plan
1. Digi’s “big gun” harnesses the big bang from an alternate universe right? Well the thing is that the big bang harnessed against Galactus is already used up, so how the Hell is Digi going to locate another appropriate universe’s Big Bang to harness in the 15 minutes of prep on the battlefield?
2. Digi and my battlefield will be continuously alternating between the following types…
a) In the middle of a Blizzard in Antarctica
b) Sahara desert in the middle of a Sandstorm
c) An evacuated San Francisco with extremely thick fog and 4.5 magnitude earthquakes on the Richter scale occurring every 3 minutes.
d) Caribbean island in the middle of a typhoon
e) A very Dense and thick tropical African jungle
f) On the rim of an active volcano on a Pacific island - active lava flows scorch the island landscape
g) Underground with a vast cave interior (with no natural light source)
h) An empty and abandoned Asteroid M
i.) Dinosaur Era Battlefield - Various Species of Dinosaurs from T-Rex to Raptors to Teridayctl roam the badland landscape.
j.) Post-Apocalyptic New York City (Barren, deserted, and half destroyed)
k.) Massive underground abandoned underground subway system (Empty tunnels, miles of old track, and old rusty subway cars, and no natural light source)
…and given the fact that things like Reed’s gun are typically delicate pieces of machinery it means the Doctor would be having to repair the thing CONTINUOUSLY.
Digi’s Biggest problem…
HE CAN’T AIM THE GUN. There is literally NO WAY Reed is going to build a gun that’s going to destroy the planet, and that’s exactly what would happen if Digi’s plan somehow came to pass. Since we’re in an absolutely indestructible dome, the excess force of Digi’s gun would be directed downward and the Earth itself would be destroyed.
Originally posted by id369
The second scan, is questionable as well. I have a question, who transmitted the information? Was it Silver Surfer, the Girl, or someone else?I ask this because, Surfer responds: he does not understand….yet once their was a information exchange, he comes to comprehend.
http://img236.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sstpty7.jpg
Originally posted by darthgoober
Digi, you should know that any adaptoid with Thor’s reflexes will be completely capable of reacting to the blast even after it’s fired…
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/ZThor4.jpg
Thanks for making my point for me about Thor. Problem is, you don't copy Mjolnir. Other problem is that speed doesn't matter in this fight. You're dead regardless, as has been stated multiple times.
And of course, he doesn't need to be directly in the blast's path to absorb it:
http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=absorb1iu0.jpg
But he can just absorb Surfer's energy as well:
http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=surfer1wp5.jpg
We're well-defended.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Sure I have, I’ve already given several viable solutions(absorption, blocking, teleportation).
None of which work for reasons stated earlier.
And this ignores the larger problem of your ludicrous duping plan.
Originally posted by darthgoober
If it’s not inside Thor’s area of absorption, then how the Hell is Thor going to protect the gun? If he’s absorbing attacks in the area SURROUNDING the gun then how the Hell is the guns energy going to escape? If Thor’s letting the energy out then the he’s not absorbing energy from the area surrounding the gun and the gun is vulnerable to assault.
If you want to try a frontal assault on a world-busting weapon, be my guest.
But as stated before, this isn't a problem. The Doctor can rebuild it as needed.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Wait are you honestly trying to say that the Super Adatoid won’t heal as well as Mar-Vell?
That's exactly what I'm saying, because you've only shown Mar-Vell healing, and a basic knowledge of powers doesn't = superb experience with the N-Bands.
Originally posted by darthgoober
And Thor is one of the templates available to me and my adaptoids so all those things are working for me and mine as well…
But not Mjolnir, which is where most of his powers are. Next.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Surfer absorbing telekinetic energy…
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/9079/silversurferv3144p06ya2.jpgAdaptoid adapting to energy…
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/362/captainamerica441takingjv7.jpg
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/739/captainamerica441takingxv3.jpg
None of which is anywhere near what I'm doing. It's like taking a punch from Spider-Man, and claiming you could withstand Superman's punches.
Originally posted by darthgoober
More problems with Digi’s plan1. Digi’s “big gun” harnesses the big bang from an alternate universe right? Well the thing is that the big bang harnessed against Galactus is already used up, so how the Hell is Digi going to locate another appropriate universe’s Big Bang to harness in the 15 minutes of prep on the battlefield?
Joking, yes? Reed accessed a universe "way down on the multiversal stack" in order to use a universe without life, since he didn't want to kill anything. He can access any of them.
It also assumes that the gun's firing used up all the energy from that Big Bang, and considering it only took out a chunk of Galactus, and not several galaxies, it's safe to say there's plenty left in that universe.
Seriously, this is just reaching now.
Originally posted by darthgoober[/B][/QUOTE]
[B]Digi’s Biggest problem…HE CAN’T AIM THE GUN. There is literally NO WAY Reed is going to build a gun that’s going to destroy the planet, and that’s exactly what would happen if Digi’s plan somehow came to pass. Since we’re in an absolutely indestructible dome, the excess force of Digi’s gun would be directed downward and the Earth itself would be destroyed. [/B]
The dome extends beneath the Earth. I checked this with Evangel pre-match. There's nowhere for the energy to go. And thus no one to kill but your team, which we've already established will happen.
As for aiming it, Doctor can hold Italy but he can't maneuver a building sized weapon around? Please.
🙄
Originally posted by psycho gundam
wait a sec, if digi fires a beam capable of "killing" GAH-LAK-TUS in a ten mile dome, how the hell can he survive it?I know he stated how but is that enough? if goob's characters can die, so can digi's and like he said there is no safe place to be really.
It's in my writeup. I have a field set up with the Doctor to convert energy to rain, and I'll be soaking up excess energy with Mjolnir, which is more than capable of handling residual energy from it.
I'm also behind it and off to the side a bit. So the energy will envelope everywhere else before it even gets near me. I have a FAR better way of dealing with it than goob, and can always shut it down if it threatens my own team...but by that time, goob's team would be long dead.
