Important points to consider for the Silver Adaptoid
1. Surfer’s one of the best matter manipulators around. I thought the scans I already posted were enough to support his creation of an adaptoid but since there seems to be some skepticism still here’s some examples of just how good Surfer is at that kind of thing….
Creates floating wall by contracting air molecules
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/4862/fantasticfour07208translr7.jpg
Creates body for Quasimodo
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5528/ffannual05silversurfer0tl4.jpg
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/3945/ffannual05silversurfer0vy1.jpg
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6572/ffannual05silversurfer0jv9.jpg
Transmutes Quasimodo into statue
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/3681/ffannual05silversurfer1wr4.jpg
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2844/ffannual05silversurfer1ux2.jpg
Dissolves window
http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/4610/ffv15505transmutationwp9.jpg
Transmutes ash tray into gold
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/7476/silversurfer01507transmtk0.jpg
Transmutes napkin dispenser
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/6339/silversurfer199712916th6.jpg
Creates oxygen cube in space
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/3329/silversurfer04316hm7.jpg
Dissolves rock wall
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/9024/silversurferv309610no6.jpg
Transmutes treasure into sand
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/5214/silversurferv309718fa6.jpg
Alters Nebula’s armor to bind her
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/1543/silversurfer199511020tj7.jpg
Energy to matter conversion
http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/5206/fantasticfour5002energyzx1.jpg
Destroys Mr. Fantastic’s house while in the throws of a “Cosmic Nightmare” and the repairs the damage upon awakening
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/6531/ssenslavers14cosmicnighpy9.jpg
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/8053/ssenslavers15cosmicnighsg4.jpg
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/8463/ssenslavers16fn2.jpg
Dissolves Quantum Bands knock off
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6808/silversurferv309823db5.jpg
Transmutes Legacy and the Nega Bands to trap them in his surfboard
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/8547/silversurfer199612217bh0.jpg
Creates sophisticated weapon that employs cosmic energy
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/3086/fantasticfourv105707traqz7.jpg
Repairs
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/9739/ffv15520transmutationqm7.jpg
Gives car flying capabilities
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/4567/silversurferv3139p07xw4.jpg
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6291/silversurferv3139p08du4.jpg
Alters FF’s ship
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/5/silversurfer198700123bn5.jpg
Changes the make up of Obliterator’s weapon systems
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/4025/silversurfer198700521ts3.jpg
Instantly creates house from NOTHING
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/8030/silversurfer198700208sz2.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/7331/silversurfer198700209qi1.jpg
Rebuilds city
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/9320/ssenslavers74sc7.jpg
Rebuilds space fleet
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/6967/ssenslavers77xr1.jpg
Rebuilds lab for Bruce Banner
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/1949/theincrediblehulkv22502uc3.jpg
Builds a machine from Banner’s mental blueprint
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/2282/theincrediblehulkv22502sk0.jpg
2. The Silver Adaptoid doesn’t HAVE to create billions of Adaptoids, all he has to do is make a few because each adaptoid created will be aiding in the creation process. After the first one’s made, the rate that they’re produced at increases exponentially because they’ll all be helping.
3. It doesn’t MATTER whether or not Surfer can create an adaptoid on his own, because he’s drawing on the technological knowledge of the Super Adaptoid, Reed Richards, Hank Pym, and the Fixer during the creation process. Surfer just provides the tools, the brains provide the know how for the job.
4. The scans I showed from the Taking AIM story arc are more than enough to prove that it's possible to create an adaptoid even without the cosmic cube, and the fact that the Super Adaptoid was actually in charge of the whole opperation means that he knows how to do it.
Things to remember about Digi.
1. His big gun is powered by the energy of a big bang in an alternate universe. The first time Reed built it he had to research and find an appropriate universe to power the thing, and Digi doesn’t have the means to do that in his 15 minutes of prep.
2. Without the big gun(and even with it) DIGI CAN’T WIN. He hasn’t put forth a single thing that throws doubt on the Silver Adaptoids ability to teleport out of the guns line of fire and assault his team from above. He hasn’t shown anything to suggest that ANY of his characters can cope with the combined abilities of Surfer, Thor, Mar-Vell, and Captian America. That’s why he keeps on harping about his big gun rather than explain what he’s going to do after I teleport out of the way…because unless he somehow manages to shoot me with it there’s no way he can win this.
Originally posted by darthgoober
2. The Silver Adaptoid doesn’t HAVE to create billions of Adaptoids, all he has to do is make a few because each adaptoid created will be aiding in the creation process. After the first one’s made, the rate that they’re produced at increases exponentially because they’ll all be helping.
Technically the creation process is increased geometrically. 😉
Summary
- I've shown that Surfer's power is finite so he'd run out of power before being able to copy that many, Adaptoid's ability to replicate himeslf is suspect (at best), and the timeframe goober posits in his writeup is nothing short of silly in it's absurdity.
- One thing I NEVER mentioned until now is that those copies of Adaptoid that he has streaming out of him (which he needed the cosmic cube for, which he doesn't have now) were also blank slates, with no templates downloaded into them. He has no concept of how to make copies of himself with templates, and take the cube away and he can't do it at all. So keep that in mind too, since it means goober's giant army (which he doesn't have in the first place) doesn't even have templates to copy and is just a crappy robot.
- My plan, as always, has been based on a solid foundation of established powers. Nothing I did raises eyebrows, since it's all immensely doable. Goober's plan...not so much.
- The scan barrage above me can be largely ignored. Half of them I've debunked elsewhere in this thread and don't even begin to prove goober's strategy. Most of the others are similarly unimpressive, given the ludicrous lengths he wants to stretch them.
- I have a gun that can kill Galactus. That isn't in question. Goober's lame attempt to say Reed can't recreate it is simply false. He's built it before, and all he has to do is build the exact same thing. His very thoughts will shape it into reality via Doctor's matter manip. 15 minutes gives us time for high tea in addition to building it, and our suits.
- The technological prowess of the geniuses goober keeps mentioning mean nothing. Can they build SA? No.
- Good match goob. I enjoyed it.
its tough but im voting for Darth, for now . . .
His tactics seemed like they would hold strong, even after Digi somewhat debunked his SA-army. The toughest call for me here was definitely whether or not Digi's beam would wipe out the SA's, and I'm just not convinced it would wipe out a teleporter..
Great match to the both of you! 👆
I'm going to have to vote for Digi.
I was originally swayed towards Goober's argument because I saw the sheer magnitude of 6 billion powerful metas being able to withstand the brunt of Digi's blast. But Digi threw a hinge into that argument and even Goober doesn't seem to wholeheartedly believe that he can create 6 billion (or anywhere close to that) amount of metas, as shown by his promotion of his backup plan.
But Goober's backup plan seems ineffective and a lastminute fail-safe strategy...Digi's blast takes up the entire space of the battlefield, so literally there is no place for Goober's team to teleport to for safety. And EVEN assuming they manage to escape the gun (which doesn't seem likely), it doesn't seem like Goober's team would really defeat Digi's team.
So, I guess I'm glad I witheld my vote until more of the strategies were hashed out, as my decision was changed in the last hour, although it was a very hard decision. Great job to the both of you.
Voting for Darth.
If Digi could get his gun up, it may be a different story, but I cannot see him doing that. Lex and Reed getting along? Reed being able to access a universe in 15 minutes?
As for Digi claiming that REED (as part of SA's templates) would not know how to create something...well, the man can create anything. I happen to think that Darth could create a multitude of Adaptiods.
I’m voting for Darthgoober because worst case scenario he has a couple of herald level badasses, whereas Digi’s plan seems to rely on the big gun, which I have several problems with.
First of all, forgive my ignorance, but I’m not at all familiar with the Doctor. The scans of him turning a door into air and debris into rain were impressive, but do you have any scans of him building a complex device like anti-galactus gun instantly?
Secondly, wouldn’t the building the gun instantly be considered instant tech and require the 6 point ability?
Finally, like Goober pointed out, the first time the gun was fired it harnessed a big bang of a baby universe, what are the odds he’ll be able to do that on command? The opportunity just doesn’t seem there.
I'm actually convinced that the Super Adaptoid duplication thing would work.
The spying thing may have made little difference to the outcome of the debate but I'm going to address it anyway. From what I understood Darth was not so much looking back through the portal but was aware that they were being spied on thanks to his cosmic awareness.
Not so convinced about the Big Bang Gun thing being the be all and end all to the match though mainly because of the preparation that needs to be taken in order to operate the weapon and that there are plausible scenarios for Darth to counter it if in the very unlikely scenario that Digi's team managed to get it up and running. Granted the Doctor seems mighty impressive in his own right and Digi put up an incredible defence, this what extremely close but I'm going to have to vote for darthgoober.
Well done to both participants, this is what makes these tourney's great to read.
Hate to be the one putting the nail.
Changing my vote: I vote for Gobber.
This may have been different if Digi proved that he could shoot before being attacked by the adaptoids -how can we vouch for the gun's speed?- or if he focused in the battle in case he failed to win with a gun and the adaptoids were less numerous than the initial estimate, now that we can't see that Gobber doesn't need that many numbers to win, his victory seems much more likely.
I'm voting for Darth. His army just seems to incredible for Digi to take.
Digi's gun as amazing as it is seems to me it was really about the only thing I could even conceive him coming up with to defend against Darth's plan. Weather or not Darth could even create billions in his army and I just don't see Reed and Lex just allowing each other that knowledge or Digi's plan coming together in time or Darth having nothing to defend againist should it all even work.
A legion of power copiers just seems far to much to take especially with Surfers powers and awareness to guide them. IMO
Great job both of you.
Both competitors did a fantastic job of convening their points. However, in my opinion, DigiMark007 won this match.
Why? Well... to put it simply; Goober had many speculative points in his battle strategy that, in order to be believed, had to be extrapolated from evidence that wasn't even close to being concrete.
Digi on the other hand, did a good job of demonstrating what his team could and would do in regards to his battle plan with solid evidence.
Also, the idea that Surfer would be able to react quickly enough for the gigantic blast not to be effective was, in a word... fishy. First of all, you've got "billions" of androids in an extremely limited area (hell, the battlefield is only 10 miles in diameter), so the blast would in reality, contact all of them. I don't think they'd be able to synchronize their movements fast enough for them to process the idea of teleporting the blast away from them!
Furthermore, the very idea of all those clones (and whatnot) working together in perfect harmony is a logistical nightmare. I doubt very much would be accomplished. So while the idea seemed solid (in theory), imo, it ended up hurting him more than helping.
Also, I noticed how Goober mentioned that Lex and Reed wouldn't be able to work together very efficiently in order for this task to be completed. Well, we've seen Lex work with heroes numerous times (Our Worlds at War being just one example of this). And considering the fact that if they don't work together properly, they'll end up perishing... I don't think Lex would have a problem acquiescing to the betterment of the team. Hell, even Darkseid has worked together with heroes before. So, in my mind, the concept of Goober trying to attack Digi's plan in this way put one word in my mind... desperation.
Voting over as of 6:30PM Central Standard Time.
Votes for Darthgoober: 9
Symmetric Chaos
Air Legend
invisiblewoman
Blair Wind
Typhus
ExodusCloak
Bentley
psycho gundam
Entity
Votes for Digimark: 4
Devil Lance
id369
King Kandy
Masterborg
Darthgoober advances to the fourth round. Digimark goes to the third round with all those who have a (1-1) record. Two wins are necessary to advance to the fourth round.
Thanks batdude...just a few minutes late though. It's 9-5 in my mind though.
Anyway, thanks for the warm-up goob ( 😉 ). I wanted to win, and gave it my all with the strategy I had, but learned a lot from this match. I hope I see you again later in the tourney. But congrats. You earned it.
And I wouldn't want to be my 3rd round opponent right about now.
