Safer Sephiroth vs. Kain

fascistcrusader, you have been given a warning. You will not resort to flaming.

I'm sorry, but what I did was point out a few facts, thats not flaming. If anything, Burning was flaming here:

now i think your having me on, you are just annoying me now for the fun of it arent you? you a Furion sock or something having a joke? i mean jesus christ...you dont know anything on LOK, you seem to think there is no shield now....

erm....... you seem a very young debator and no offense but i do not like debating with people who are very young

show me this rule please youve pulled out of your @ss, its documented in the game as Kains moves, its like saying that all of Dantes moves just beause their optional means that they are not canon or he cannot use any of them.....thats BS, same with his guns, you dont have to pick them up but their still his weapons he can use, your talking rubbish.

now your stamping your feet roll eyes (sarcastic)

Ill reply when your a little older and stop stamping your feet, maybe mummy will get you a present later and youll feel better

Now please, keep your members who can't control their tempers or language in line.

you should not give mods orders, also I certainly did not use any bad language either "sigh"

also I certainly did not use any bad language either "sigh"

Please don't lie to the moderators. As you know, official broadcast groups all classify the term "Jesus Christ" as profanity.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Are all his remnants as fast as loz tho? if its a piece of him, then its a part of him, so that seems to be his speed fragment, where are you getting all these figuires from? your @ss? 10x? wtf is that all about, he could be only 4x, he probably is not much faster at all, someone does not have to be fast to be powerful, your buddy sephiroth shows us that when he takes forever to cast one of his spells that are actually good but are powerful.

But it was shown that all 3 of them were not capable of taking on Cloud, yet Sephiroth toying around was enough to kill Cloud.

The remnants are WEAK remnants, all of them add up don't equal to Sephiroth at all, Sephiroth is much more superior then them, Sephiroth doesn't take forever to cast a spell, your looking at gameplay, Sephiroth with a gesture summoned the lifestream, with a thought dropped the building.

No that does not require logic at all, its obvious and easy to see that something with power within it, does not have to be hard to contain...it cant exactley fight TK barriers, its power is not in its movement either, your talking out of your @ss there is ZERO to say its hard to hold with TK and so its not a feat

well yeh thats a damn good feat of Kains, considering Sephiroth struggles to hold people, Sephiroth would end up in TK shackles and unable to do anything.

BS again, Loz is no way 10x faster than Kain...he is maybe 2x, 3x faster, but 10? BS again, stop overhyping your lovers

Ive seen Sephiroth make his little gestures, he takes ages, to gesture NL he takes far too long to control it before Kain teleports with his reaver in Sephiroths head or simply TKs sephiroth to the ground, Sephiroth has no options at all, if he tries to gesture, Kain could gesture and lock Sephiroth so tight in TK he has no chance, if Sephiroth tries to TK kain first, Kain wins by teleportation from the TK with his reaver in Sephiroth....

Kains teleporting is horrible slow, slower then Loz' movement, he takes like a second just to fade out, then another second just to fade in, its not instant teleporting, and Kains TK is WEAK he's never been shown to TK anyone even formidable, Sephiroth wins via decapitation, or crushes him with the NL.

Kain does not have to be faster, but he sure is not as slow as you try and make out, yes ive shown you his speed feat, ive not shown you the fact it would take over 40+ tons of sharp force into him to damage him with melee as well, ive never seen Sephiroth dish out 40+ tons of strikes so even if he does try and hit kain, he would end up with his sword bouncing.

That is what you call teleporting? he takes forever to even move, thats no true teleport, and the rest of the time he just goes flying up in the air....

You mean use them in the later games? why? theres is no CANON event that takes them away, if someone gains an ability or power in a game that is specific to them, then its their power unless they lose it, its canon.

Ime not using any gameplay, ime using Canon abilities, where it says in the script by Kain every spell he gains, there doesnt have to be a little cutscene that says he has the spell in canon, hell show me the rule please, cough up the special rule that a move has to be even seen in a cutscene to be canon? hell the cutscene of quicksilver is contradicted by more sources like documentation, for example the only source that says it stops time is the cutscene, the description of the ability and items however say it slows it, so the cutscene is contradicted. Again show me this out of your @ss rule, their acquired exactley the same way Kains spells are, infact you dont even really need to pick up half the weapons, and the abilities are a buy system.....Materia in FF is just an RPG element half the time, their things you just upgrade and pick up and are not character specific.

Cutscenes prove that the character actually gets the item/spell/magic in the STORY, unless there is something else that proves the character actually acquires the item/spell/magic in the story then optional item/spells/magic are NOT canon.

Planetary threat my @ss, he gets beaten by a emo kid with a big sword.....he is worthless, Kain defeats the entity that controls the wheel of fate, the souls of the dead, and who controls life, death and rebirth....

EG controls the wheel of fate and souls of dead, yes, but he has NEVER been shown to do anything powerful/impressive, all he did was slap kain with his tentacles while Kain pokes him in the eye.

yes he did say he gained the spells, after every spell he has script saying he gains the spell, Simon Templeman doesnt have that in his script if its not in the game or if its uncanon, its an ability like in 1000 other fictional games and titles and more characters gain abilities which are all canon, they dont need little cutscenes.

All of Dantes skills and abilities are canon, thats the thing....he gains them, same way as kain does, their both and are all canon, the only ones that are uncanon, are costumes and aftergame bonuses and extras, unlockable content, but if you gain it in the main story while playing through its canon. [/B]

No Kains spells are optional, and nothing states that he gets it in the actually canon story, and the spells dont appear ever again after the game is over.

Originally posted by Terryc250
If that was the case then all 3 fragments should equal to the Sephiroth 100%

But it was shown that all 3 of them were not capable of taking on Cloud, yet Sephiroth toying around was enough to kill Cloud.

The remnants are WEAK remnants, all of them add up don't equal to Sephiroth at all, Sephiroth is much more superior then them, Sephiroth doesn't take forever to cast a spell, your looking at gameplay, Sephiroth with a gesture summoned the lifestream, with a thought dropped the building.

Power within? Its POWER itself, it does not need to change form or ignight to attack, Aeris summoned Holy but it couldn't beat Sephiroths willpower, its powerful enough to destroy everything, use ur brain please, if its powerful enough to destroy everything on the planet but not powerful enough to break through Sephiroth willpower then logically Sephiroths willpower is that strong.

Sephiroth doesn't struggle to hold ppl wtf, he held all 8 members and tortured them, and held holy at the same time, Kain little "TK shackles" that have held nothing but weak crap are absolutely NOTHING compared to Sephiroths willpower.

.. Kain hasn't been shown to be faster then even a REGULAR person, Loz dwarfs Kain in speed.

He takes ages to do a gesture? Wtf how do you take ages to make a gesture? Sephiroth isn't a handicap, he flicks his hand and the skies are filled with NL.

Kains teleporting is horrible slow, slower then Loz' movement, he takes like a second just to fade out, then another second just to fade in, its not instant teleporting, and Kains TK is WEAK he's never been shown to TK anyone even formidable, Sephiroth wins via decapitation, or crushes him with the NL.

Kain hasn't been shown to be above normal speed, Sephiroth blade cuts just about anything, Negative Lifestream does FAAAR more damage to a mere 40 tons, and show me what you're talking about anyway.

Forever to even move? What are you talking about, he can move whenever he wants, and his teleporting is instant unlike Kains, in KH he can blink anywhere, yes i know the story is not canon, but the character designers are the same and so are the characters abilities.

Theres nothing canon that states he has them, what makes you so sure that the spells learned are only meant for Kain? Again there is nothing that states the spells are canon, they are [b]optional and none of them stick with him in the later games, which is a FACT.

Umm there is no script of Kain saying he has the spells that is canon in the story.

Cutscenes prove that the character actually gets the item/spell/magic in the STORY, unless there is something else that proves the character actually acquires the item/spell/magic in the story then optional item/spells/magic are NOT canon.

Yeah he threatened to transform the entire planet raiding other planets, that is a planetary threat, he lost because of his arrogance, and he didn't use any of his powers, toyed around because of the PIS omnislash move

EG controls the wheel of fate and souls of dead, yes, but he has NEVER been shown to do anything powerful/impressive, all he did was slap kain with his tentacles while Kain pokes him in the eye.

Saying he gains the spells? Or a description of the spell? I can look in my materia list in Final Fantasy and find a description of the spell as well.

If Dante actually gains the skill/ability in the story, and the abilities appear in the other games, then it IS canon

No Kains spells are optional, and nothing states that he gets it in the actually canon story, and the spells dont appear ever again after the game is over. [/B]

if their his remnants and theres only 3 then surely combining them gives you sephiroth...simple, just because all 3 of them couldnt beat cloud does not mean they are that much weaker than Sephiroth, each obviousyl they are but combined, they could easily equel sephiroth, power of characters who are split is not just a game of addition, its the fact that as something gets added to it would gain more power. Neither the lifestream or dropping the building were spells....

id tell you to do the same thing, although i know it wont help. it has to hit something tho doesnt it, you have to prove that the holy was using its power against sephiroths TK, TK is not just some physical object, theres nothing to suggest it was difficult to hold, you fail. No thats not logical at all, just because a nuclear bomb can kill millions, that doesnt give me the power to do so just because i can stop it from exploding, Sephiroth is simply holding a ball of energy by the looks of it that does not seem to be heavy (since its energy) and has not hit anything to use its power either, your example is worthless.

No he just holds people solid kain, and can keep them there.....and whats Sephiroths TK held? nothing hardly, he tries to hold the members but they escape from it every so often enough to rush him, he has to struggle to put them back. if Kain has held nothing but weak "crap" then Sephiroth has held nothing.

wtf? show me, no he doesnt, i disagree and a regular person? joker.......go and play some of the games please, youve played none obviously and likely cant watch videos, or at least forget any info youve ever seen if its against you.

No he doesnt lol, he moves his arm and it comes over fairly slowly in comparison to Kain just TKing Sephiroth down, Sephiroth has no chance.

its not a second, barely, especialyl dimensional porting as well, he can be on Sephiroth just as he starts moving his arm and thas if Kain doesnt just decide to TK sephiroth and whats funny is you say kains is slow after the ridiculous teleport in that old FF vid. No kains TK can actually hold people, Sephiroth struggles....also whats Clouds strengths level? are there any 40 tonners among the team Sephiroth struggles with? NL does nothing, its too slow, Decapitation? lawlz ftw ill agree to that when i see Sephiroth move at any speed whatsoever worthy of mentioning and when i see Sephiroth cut with enough force to damage kain.

Ime talking about Kains durability on his skin is over 40 tons+ of force, ive never seen Sephiorths sword cut anything with that much force at all.

yeh that teleport if you want to call it that is pathetic, prove KH abilities are canon please.

The game is canon and the abilities are gained within the game, what makes you call them uncanon, jsut because theres no a cutscene with them in? wheres this rule your mucking up? you dont hardly know what defines canon or non canon it seems. Their meant for Kain because Kains the only one who gets them durrrr 🙄 Their not optional, most of them are required, their powers Kain is said to gain, and he has script after every spell just like a cutscene saying he gains them, simple...their canon, also half of Dantes arsenal is optional, A lot of Kratos' items are optional yet their all canon to the game and Kratos, the game and Dante, your just broken in your canon/uncaon logic.

The whole game of LOK is the story, your not making any sense and your logic is broken, Dante has not used quicksilver from what ive seen in DMC 4, does that mean hes somehow lost it? no ofc not, he has not got every item from the old DMC games but does that mean hes pwned them at a pwn shop? no......

yeh everythings PIS when Sephiroth gets pwned, even when its happend so many times,the fool is no threat at all, he takes too long to do anything powerful and is too dumb and foolish to use it to his advantage when he finally gets it.

nothing powerful or impressive? that is damn powerful and imrpessive, he basically IS the controller of the lifestream and creater in LOK world and Kain defeats him, and his tentacles smash through stone like paper and he instantly regerates almost any appendage, EG would smash anything Sephiroth has fought most likely with ease and thats without the fact he would be immune to them.

And every spell on teh Materia list is special for that one character, no other charatcer can ever use it and your character is canon to the story ofc? oh and the fact that the materia are simply like Kains battle artefacts as well, their simply gained or bought, but their not specific. And sure you can look at your little Materia list, yourself, player action, player actions are gameplay, not in-game script just like a cutscene.

dante doesnt gain half of his moves in the story, you buy them.....Dante doesnt have hardly any moves that are canon according to your logic, which is broken but ime just pointing out the foolishness of the logic your trying to use. Show me this rule plz, just because its in another game means its canon? another BS, theres nothing saying something is uncanon just because a character doesnt use the ability in another game, nothing, until you show me this rule that is nonsense youve been blabbering about ill debate your constant "if its in a cutscene/other games its canon", the same abilities in another game does not mean anything to do with canon, it could just be the developers wanting to keep the same moves, unlike in LOK where the developers give kain diffrent moves in each game, its gameplay decision, however hte abilities themselves dont just dispear if their in the game.

Originally posted by Burning thought
[B]if their his remnants and theres only 3 then surely combining them gives you sephiroth...simple, just because all 3 of them couldnt beat cloud does not mean they are that much weaker than Sephiroth, each obviousyl they are but combined, they could easily equel sephiroth, power of characters who are split is not just a game of addition, its the fact that as something gets added to it would gain more power. Neither the lifestream or dropping the building were spells....

id tell you to do the same thing, although i know it wont help. it has to hit something tho doesnt it, you have to prove that the holy was using its power against sephiroths TK, TK is not just some physical object, theres nothing to suggest it was difficult to hold, you fail. No thats not logical at all, just because a nuclear bomb can kill millions, that doesnt give me the power to do so just because i can stop it from exploding, Sephiroth is simply holding a ball of energy by the looks of it that does not seem to be heavy (since its energy) and has not hit anything to use its power either, your example is worthless.

No he just holds people solid kain, and can keep them there.....and whats Sephiroths TK held? nothing hardly, he tries to hold the members but they escape from it every so often enough to rush him, he has to struggle to put them back. if Kain has held nothing but weak "crap" then Sephiroth has held nothing.

Sephiroth is held nothing? Sephiroth lowest TK feat was holding EIGHT party members, Kain has never held even TWO, Sephiroth's lowest feat is greater then Kains greatest feat.

wtf? show me, no he doesnt, i disagree and a regular person? joker.......go and play some of the games please, youve played none obviously and likely cant watch videos, or at least forget any info youve ever seen if its against you.

No he doesnt lol, he moves his arm and it comes over fairly slowly in comparison to Kain just TKing Sephiroth down, Sephiroth has no chance.

its not a second, barely, especialyl dimensional porting as well, he can be on Sephiroth just as he starts moving his arm and thas if Kain doesnt just decide to TK sephiroth and whats funny is you say kains is slow after the ridiculous teleport in that old FF vid. No kains TK can actually hold people, Sephiroth struggles....also whats Clouds strengths level? are there any 40 tonners among the team Sephiroth struggles with? NL does nothing, its too slow, Decapitation? lawlz ftw ill agree to that when i see Sephiroth move at any speed whatsoever worthy of mentioning and when i see Sephiroth cut with enough force to damage kain.

Ime talking about Kains durability on his skin is over 40 tons+ of force, ive never seen Sephiorths sword cut anything with that much force at all.

We have yet to see Sephiroth FAIL at cutting something.

yeh that teleport if you want to call it that is pathetic, prove KH abilities are canon please.

The game is canon and the abilities are gained within the game, what makes you call them uncanon, jsut because theres no a cutscene with them in? wheres this rule your mucking up? you dont hardly know what defines canon or non canon it seems. Their meant for Kain because Kains the only one who gets them durrrr 🙄 Their not optional, most of them are required, their powers Kain is said to gain, and he has script after every spell just like a cutscene saying he gains them, simple...their canon, also half of Dantes arsenal is optional, A lot of Kratos' items are optional yet their all canon to the game and Kratos, the game and Dante, your just broken in your canon/uncaon logic.

The only arsenol people debate with Dante are the ones that ARE proven to be canon'd in the story.

The whole game of LOK is the story, your not making any sense and your logic is broken, Dante has not used quicksilver from what ive seen in DMC 4, does that mean hes somehow lost it? no ofc not, he has not got every item from the old DMC games but does that mean hes pwned them at a pwn shop? no......

yeh everythings PIS when Sephiroth gets pwned, even when its happend so many times,the fool is no threat at all, he takes too long to do anything powerful and is too dumb and foolish to use it to his advantage when he finally gets it.

Without PIS, and if Sephiroth was going all out, Cloud would've stood no chance at all.

nothing powerful or impressive? that is damn powerful and imrpessive, he basically IS the controller of the lifestream and creater in LOK world and Kain defeats him, and his tentacles smash through stone like paper and he instantly regerates almost any appendage, EG would smash anything Sephiroth has fought most likely with ease and thats without the fact he would be immune to them.

All EG did was toss around his tentacles, his tentacles being able to smash rocks isn't a feat there buddy..

And every spell on teh Materia list is special for that one character, no other charatcer can ever use it and your character is canon to the story ofc? oh and the fact that the materia are simply like Kains battle artefacts as well, their simply gained or bought, but their not specific. And sure you can look at your little Materia list, yourself, player action, player actions are gameplay, not in-game script just like a cutscene.

dante doesnt gain half of his moves in the story, you buy them.....Dante doesnt have hardly any moves that are canon according to your logic, which is broken but ime just pointing out the foolishness of the logic your trying to use. Show me this rule plz, just because its in another game means its canon? another BS, theres nothing saying something is uncanon just because a character doesnt use the ability in another game, nothing, until you show me this rule that is nonsense youve been blabbering about ill debate your constant "if its in a cutscene/other games its canon", the same abilities in another game does not mean anything to do with canon, it could just be the developers wanting to keep the same moves, unlike in LOK where the developers give kain diffrent moves in each game, its gameplay decision, however hte abilities themselves dont just dispear if their in the game.

Kain's optional spells in BO1 haven't been proven to be canon to the story, and they don't even appear in any other games which basically proves that they weren't canon anyway.

Originally posted by Terryc250
No, they are weak remnants, Sephiroth created them, if Galactus creates 3 heralds, does that make the 3 of them equal to Galactus? No, Cloud owned Loz and Yazoo in about 2 minutes, then straight up gave Kadaj an embarassing beatdown, yet Sephiroth didn't use any of his powers, only using melee, and even toying around with him in melee and still could've killed Cloud with not much effort. Sephiroth is faar superior then the 3.

Why would it have to hit something? Its not a bomb that needs to be ignited its a powerful energy with a force strong enough to destroy everything, and to contain a nuclear power isn't easy, unless you stop it from being unleashed, Holy is energy power itself, it does not need to be ignited for it to work, its simply there the energy.

And Sephirth held 8 people, and no they don't "escape" since when can the party members somehow similtaneously read eachothers mind to fly at Sephiroth at precisely the same time? And since when can the party members even fly? Sephiroth was obviously bringing them in and slashing them thats why the members were groaning in pain..

Sephiroth is held nothing? Sephiroth lowest TK feat was holding EIGHT party members, Kain has never held even TWO, Sephiroth's lowest feat is greater then Kains greatest feat.

Kain has no speed feats period. Are you going to try to bring up that video where kain stabs the guy and you called it uber speed? HAHA, That was momentum, i can move 3-4 metres that fast too if i just use momentum and jump.

He moves his arm? What are you talking about, he just looked forward, and the top of the building fell down.

Kain will die before he finds enough souls to charge up his reaver.
wtf are you talking about? Why would Sephiroth need to move his arms? Sephiroth TKs with his mind, unlike Kain who has to reach out to TK, ridiculous teleport? It was INSTANT, he appeared in a split second or less, are you blind or something? Unlike Kains slow teleporting which takes him seconds just to fade out and in.
Prove Kain can survive 40tons damage on him, Raziel ripped his heart out pretty damn easily.
We haven't seen Sephiroth at full speed, but logically he should be faster then Loz, and Loz dwarfs Kain in speed.

Prove.

We have yet to see Sephiroth FAIL at cutting something.

Both teleports are INSTANT, KH Sephiroth created by the same guy who created Sephiroth in the first place, thats why he has the same abilities like heartless angel. The story may not be canon, but the character is basically the same.

Its not canon because theres nothing that proves its canon, all of Clouds swords in FF7 were meant for Cloud, does that mean all those weapons are canon? No.
Most of the spells ARE optional, only a couple of them were mandatory.
What do you mean he has a "script" that says he gains them? When i get materia from a store it tells me i gained the magic as well, when i go to an inn and sleep, the innkeeper tells me to have a goodnight, does that make it part of the canon story too? No, its just automatic game response, it had nothing to do with the actual canon storyline.

The only arsenol people debate with Dante are the ones that ARE proven to be canon'd in the story.

Dante infact does have QS in DMC4, The fact that the abilities are infact his abilities as proven he can use them in each game, proves that those are infact, his abilities.. unlike BO1 optional spells where, after the game they become unheard of again.

I said the OmniSlash move is PIS, anything that gets hit by it would probably die, Sephiroth weak remnants took a huuge TNT explosion to the face and survived.

Without PIS, and if Sephiroth was going all out, Cloud would've stood no chance at all.

Your Galactus logic is broken because Heralds are not remnants, their just beings Galactus creates. Wheras the 3 are parts of sephiroth.

ofcourse it has to hit something, if its just floating in the air stopped by TK, its not doing anything, its not using any of its power, it would need to use its power for the "power" to come into effect.

Rubbish, they were all going into him every so often, BS about the slashing as well, they broke his willpower every so often and went at him, they did it a good few times.

no, Sephirorhs highest TK feat is trying to hold those 8 party members but failing, which<Kain actually succeeding

No it was not momentum, no human can do that, Kain was instantly there and moved there after less than a second at the same time as impaling rock without stopping.

what rubbish, he didnt appear, he flashed for about 5 seconds as he came into the area, it was one of the weaksest teleports ive ever seen.

Thats because Raziel is that strong:

Raziel is indeed incredibly strong, most people dont appreciate it either, see this:

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.razorapple.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/vanderbilt-rock-costume-raphael.jpg&imgrefurl=http://razorapple.com/2006/10/30/costuming-a-10-ton-rock-for-halloween/&h=333&w=500&sz=28&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=SJpY6XgyYN0JnM:&tbnh=87&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dwhat%2Bcan%2Brock%2Bdress%2Bup%2Bas%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den

now this Rock weighs 10 tons, now look at this:

YouTube video

Raziel moves this large slab which is the same size in comparison to that 10 ton rock, furthermore its actually taller, considering the fact that Raziel has to be around 6 ft and that women is likely not that tall, this rock is still above raziels head by far more than the 10 ton rock in that image is above the women, furthermore the rock is chissled square, its not just a lump of shapepless rock, its got more on it because its got edges and is square, instead of a lump, which makes it heavier. Not only does he push it around but he throws it up a height about a foot taller than him perhaps more several times.

but thats only about perhaps 15-20 tones ive just shown you, later on he lifts around 30/40 tons when he puts one on top of the other! and lifts it with similiar ease around.

now:

YouTube video

Raziel hits Kain with many hits, hes not holding back at all from long range, meaing his impact will be heavier than when he hits the rock, then you have to take into consideration his claws are razor sharp, enough so to slash into stone with fair ease thats for sure, all vampire claws in Nosgoth are blade sharp, they can use their claws instead of swords if they wish so. Kain ofc takes it with ease, is not even scratched and then throws down raziels arm and TK blasts him across the area, it may even be more than 40 tons, since those blocks are of more chissled shape, then youve got the fact kain also gets kicked, kicks have even more strength than arms usually. Thats a 35-50 tonner laying into Kain with claws that can pierce solid smooth stone and doesnt even make a scratch, Kain is barely phased, just moved back by the force.

hes never failed to cut something? wow lets assume he can cut Galactus now then shale we? show me the toughest thing hes cut.

nope, only the KH one is fast and instant, just because their made by the same people doesnt make that sephiroth the exact same one, with the exact same power, Sora does not canonically fight Sephiroth with goofy and donald duck does he...no ofc not, all abilities used by sephiroth in an uncanon appearance is not real, just like Dante defeating galaxy threats and fighting jedah in various comic appearances.

There is, Kains words, he says he has them, kain himself, thats the same as having a cutscene.

No people debate all Dantes moves, all those that are optional, weapons that are optional, those that he can buy and those upgrades he can get, people debate all these things ebcause they are dantes, just like kains spelsl are his.

becoming unheard of does not mean their gone...simple, it would take another canon event to truelly remove them

why? what would Sephiroth possibly do, Cloud doesnt go all out until the end either, he doesnt do omnislash at the beginning does he.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Well then EG obviously didn't use his powers against Kain, the lifestream>souls, lifestream is not just souls its the power source of everything, life, magic, energy, etc.

All EG did was toss around his tentacles, his tentacles being able to smash rocks isn't a feat there buddy..

Huh? I don't understand what your saying, but materia ISN'T special for that one character, the only canon materia is the one that is proven to be canon, that actually had to do with the storyline, like black materia and white materia.

Sure he does, he has all the moves that have been proven to be infact, Dante's abilities.. quicksilver is his real move, actually gets it in the story, his styles are canon because they appear in all of his games, which proves it is his ability

Kain's optional spells in BO1 haven't been proven to be canon to the story, and they don't even appear in any other games which basically proves that they weren't canon anyway.

Well yes it is a feat, EG tentacles are damn strong and have smashed through thick concrete/rock

yes that is what ime saying, exactley, its not special for anyone, wheras Kains spells are special to kain which makes them canon, their not something you can slap around on diffrent characters

show me this, go on please, show me the rule that apprently just because its been shown in more than one game that its canon?

and Dantes optional styles and weapons have not been proven either, however they are canon and so are Kains spells, your just in denial and have no idea of it

Originally posted by Burning thought
Raziel is indeed incredibly strong, most people dont appreciate it either, see this:

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.razorapple.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/vanderbilt-rock-costume-raphael.jpg&imgrefurl=http://razorapple.com/2006/10/30/costuming-a-10-ton-rock-for-halloween/&h=333&w=500&sz=28&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=SJpY6XgyYN0JnM:&tbnh=87&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dwhat%2Bcan%2Brock%2Bdress%2Bup%2Bas%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den

now this Rock weighs 10 tons, now look at this:

YouTube video

Raziel moves this large slab which is the same size in comparison to that 10 ton rock, furthermore its actually taller, considering the fact that Raziel has to be around 6 ft and that women is likely not that tall, this rock is still above raziels head by far more than the 10 ton rock in that image is above the women, furthermore the rock is chissled square, its not just a lump of shapepless rock, its got more on it because its got edges and is square, instead of a lump, which makes it heavier. Not only does he push it around but he throws it up a height about a foot taller than him perhaps more several times.

but thats only about perhaps 15-20 tones ive just shown you, later on he lifts around 30/40 tons when he puts [b]one on top of the other! and lifts it with similiar ease around.

now:

YouTube video

Raziel hits Kain with many hits, hes not holding back at all from long range, meaing his impact will be heavier than when he hits the rock, then you have to take into consideration his claws are razor sharp, enough so to slash into stone with fair ease thats for sure, all vampire claws in Nosgoth are blade sharp, they can use their claws instead of swords if they wish so. Kain ofc takes it with ease, is not even scratched and then throws down raziels arm and TK blasts him across the area, it may even be more than 40 tons, since those blocks are of more chissled shape, then youve got the fact kain also gets kicked, kicks have even more strength than arms usually. Thats a 35-50 tonner laying into Kain with claws that can pierce solid smooth stone and doesnt even make a scratch, Kain is barely phased, just moved back by the force.[/B]

😊

😄 😉

Originally posted by Burning thought
Your Galactus logic is broken because Heralds are not remnants, their just beings Galactus creates. Wheras the 3 are parts of sephiroth.

ofcourse it has to hit something, if its just floating in the air stopped by TK, its not doing anything, its not using any of its power, it would need to use its power for the "power" to come into effect.

Rubbish, they were all going into him every so often, BS about the slashing as well, they broke his willpower every so often and went at him, they did it a good few times.

no, Sephirorhs highest TK feat is trying to hold those 8 party members but failing, which<Kain actually succeeding

No it was not momentum, no human can do that, Kain was instantly there and moved there after less than a second at the same time as impaling rock without stopping.

what rubbish, he didnt appear, he flashed for about 5 seconds as he came into the area, it was one of the weaksest teleports ive ever seen.

Thats because Raziel is that strong:

Raziel is indeed incredibly strong, most people dont appreciate it either, see this:

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.razorapple.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/vanderbilt-rock-costume-raphael.jpg&imgrefurl=http://razorapple.com/2006/10/30/costuming-a-10-ton-rock-for-halloween/&h=333&w=500&sz=28&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=SJpY6XgyYN0JnM:&tbnh=87&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dwhat%2Bcan%2Brock%2Bdress%2Bup%2Bas%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den

now this Rock weighs 10 tons, now look at this:

YouTube video

Raziel moves this large slab which is the same size in comparison to that 10 ton rock, furthermore its actually taller, considering the fact that Raziel has to be around 6 ft and that women is likely not that tall, this rock is still above raziels head by far more than the 10 ton rock in that image is above the women, furthermore the rock is chissled square, its not just a lump of shapepless rock, its got more on it because its got edges and is square, instead of a lump, which makes it heavier. Not only does he push it around but he throws it up a height about a foot taller than him perhaps more several times.

but thats only about perhaps 15-20 tones ive just shown you, later on he lifts around 30/40 tons when he puts one on top of the other! and lifts it with similiar ease around.

now:

YouTube video

Raziel hits Kain with many hits, hes not holding back at all from long range, meaing his impact will be heavier than when he hits the rock, then you have to take into consideration his claws are razor sharp, enough so to slash into stone with fair ease thats for sure, all vampire claws in Nosgoth are blade sharp, they can use their claws instead of swords if they wish so. Kain ofc takes it with ease, is not even scratched and then throws down raziels arm and TK blasts him across the area, it may even be more than 40 tons, since those blocks are of more chissled shape, then youve got the fact kain also gets kicked, kicks have even more strength than arms usually. Thats a 35-50 tonner laying into Kain with claws that can pierce solid smooth stone and doesnt even make a scratch, Kain is barely phased, just moved back by the force.

Wow... just wow... gameplay logic huh? See this is the kind of crap you post trying to amp Kain up way more then he is, giving him feats that he doesn't even deserve, but anyway, going by that logic then.

watch at 7:20
YouTube video

Cloud can get CONTINUOSLY ran over by these GIANT boulders that are probably twice as heavy as those things Raziel lifts, Cloud doesn't lose any health, so i guess that makes Cloud virtually invulnerable, so going by Cloud being virtually invulnerable, he fights Sephiroth in AC, Sephiroth gets him against the wall and stabs him in the shoulder, and it actually PIERCES him, so i guess that makes Sephiroths uber godly?

hes never failed to cut something? wow lets assume he can cut Galactus now then shale we? show me the toughest thing hes cut.

nope, only the KH one is fast and instant, just because their made by the same people doesnt make that sephiroth the exact same one, with the exact same power, Sora does not canonically fight Sephiroth with goofy and donald duck does he...no ofc not, all abilities used by sephiroth in an uncanon appearance is not real, just like Dante defeating galaxy threats and fighting jedah in various comic appearances.

There is, Kains words, he says he has them, kain himself, thats the same as having a cutscene.

No people debate all Dantes moves, all those that are optional, weapons that are optional, those that he can buy and those upgrades he can get, people debate all these things ebcause they are dantes, just like kains spelsl are his.

becoming unheard of does not mean their gone...simple, it would take another canon event to truelly remove them

Their won't be a canon event to remove something that wasn't even canon in the first place.

why? what would Sephiroth possibly do, Cloud doesnt go all out until the end either, he doesnt do omnislash at the beginning does he. [/B]

Well yes it is a feat, EG tentacles are damn strong and have smashed through thick concrete/rock

yes that is what ime saying, exactley, its not special for anyone, wheras Kains spells are special to kain which makes them canon, their not something you can slap around on diffrent characters

show me this, go on please, show me the rule that apprently just because its been shown in more than one game that its canon?

and Dantes optional styles and weapons have not been proven either, however they are canon and so are Kains spells, your just in denial and have no idea of it

Originally posted by Terryc250
No, Sephiroth CREATED them he didn't turn himself into 3 parts.. and all 3 of them are NOT equal to Sephiroth, not even close.

.. Holy doesn't need to hit anything, it forces its way sweeping through everything in its path and destroying everything, it doesn't smash into the planet.

No, wtf, he was bringing them in and slashing at them, duh, the party can't fly, and they cant read eachothers minds to and somehow similtaneously at exactly the same time fly at Sephiroth (again the party CANNOT fly.).

No, his highest is holding Holy, then taking down the top of the building, then holding the entire party members. What is Kains? Nothing worth even mentioning.

With jumping you can cover that distance if you have the momentum, watch the video again and u can see Kain launching his last attack and moving forward with momentum.

Flashed? What says hes unable to move/attack while he's flashing? That was obviously just for effects, even without teleporting Sephiroth is faster then Kain.

Wow... just wow... gameplay logic huh? See this is the kind of crap you post trying to amp Kain up way more then he is, giving him feats that he doesn't even deserve, but anyway, going by that logic then.

watch at 7:20
YouTube video

Cloud can get CONTINUOSLY ran over by these GIANT boulders that are probably twice as heavy as those things Raziel lifts, Cloud doesn't lose any health, so i guess that makes Cloud virtually invulnerable, so going by Cloud being virtually invulnerable, he fights Sephiroth in AC, Sephiroth gets him against the wall and stabs him in the shoulder, and it actually PIERCES him, so i guess that makes Sephiroths uber godly?

Everything he has cut has been even easier then hot knife butter.

Story wise obviously he doesn't fight them obviously, but Tetsuya obviously created Sephiroth as THE Sephiroth.

If Cloud says "I have recieved *insert materia name here*" everytime he gets a materia, does that make it canon? No theyre still optional materia, and had nothing to do with the storyline.

Because Dante's moves ARE canon, they appear again and again as his abilities throughout the gameS, Kains optional spells in BO1 never had anything to do with the story, and were unheard of after BO1

Not having them DOES mean they're gone, not being able to use them DOES mean there gone, never hearing about them again DOES mean they're gone.

Their won't be a canon event to remove something that wasn't even canon in the first place.

What do you mean Cloud doesn't go all out until the very end? Where did u get that from? Look at his face, he was clearing going all out the entire fight, why would he not go all out if he's fighting someone far superior then him?

Remnant

1. Something left over; a remainder.

their parts of him all right, left over parts, apprently they even had special areas of sephiroth that they personified

yes it does, it had to hit the meteor to destroy it, it didnt just suddenly explode as holy appeared.... 🙄

show me the video for your claim then, if he was slashing them then his sword must be so weak not to even damage them, and it was a non player controlled cutscene, also why do tey have to read eachothers minds, i think Cloud spoke and they all did it.

holding holy is not a feat, youve yet to prove that. Taking down the top of a building? a already crumbling damaged building, the thing is barely holding together, not to menstion how is that a higher feat than holding someone? its worthless, its like a Raziel blast.

false, its speed, no human can move instantly forwards as fast as kain in a straight line.

whats to say Kain cannot attack in his second of fading in?

erm no, your kind of crap is when you dont even post anything, unfortatley this is not a gameplay mechanic, its a static object untouched by balance. No that rubbish IS gameplay mechanic, heres the diffrent: Raziel is moving puzzle static blocks untouched by game mechanics and balancing, Cloud is being HIT by blocks, taking into account player damage values such as damage per hit of boulders, just like damge values of weapons in games where swords do 100 or w/e, thats the mechanic. You fail again.

why THE sephiroth? if its not even a canon event then unless someone official has said all the powers he uses against the player are canon then they are not since that sephiroth is not canon event.

No because Materia are not specific to him, technically they are canon, the materia itself is canon, the fact is you could not use it for cloud in a debate because its not just his, its like flay artifacts in BO, their just objects to use and anyone can do so wheras spells and abilities Kain gains are his to gain alone.

False, Dante gains many weapons and abilities he does not see using in other games, in DMC he has cerberus and ragni and rudra, he never uses them after htat game, but does that mean their uncanon? nopes.....

no it does not ,if an object/ability is in a game especially like LOK, its canon if its not unlockable or an extra.

No he doesnt, answer this, does he or does he not use omnislash at the end, not in the beginning?

Originally posted by Terryc250
So? That maybe a threat to street levelers, but not higher tier characters.

Wheres your proof that no one else can learn the spells but Kain?

Is Buster Sword canon? Yes, because it appears in not only FF7 game, but the movie as well, its common sense, if it keeps appearing over and over, then obviously it does exist.

The only ones that are canon are the ones that have been proven to be his actually abilities, as in, appearing as his abilities again and again, or have to do with the storyline.
Kains spells were optional, haad nothing to do with the storyline, and somehow disappeared after BO1, obviously it wasn't canon.

Sephiroth is a street leveler? K

because only Kain learns the spells, thats the fact, only Kain gains them in the game, simple.....

No nothing has to appear over and over to excist in canon, sorry.

No all of Dantes and Kains powers are canon, simple, their all in the games, Dante does gain various items and powers during the game and their canon to the character, jsut because he doesnt have Cerberus in the next game doesnt mean theyve just dispeared, or Agni and Rudra, or Kalina anne (altho i heard he still has it in a nother game, he doesnt have it in DMC 1 which is based after DMC 3) but that does not mean there never excisted such a weapon, or dante never got it etc......thats where the uncanon game mechanic comes in that reduces the characters abilities in another game to make it diffrent ,so they dont have all the same abilities or powers every game.

Originally posted by Burning thought
their parts of him all right, left over parts, apprently they even had special areas of sephiroth that they personified

yes it does, it had to hit the meteor to destroy it, it didnt just suddenly explode as holy appeared.... 🙄

show me the video for your claim then, if he was slashing them then his sword must be so weak not to even damage them, and it was a non player controlled cutscene, also why do tey have to read eachothers minds, i think Cloud spoke and they all did it.

holding holy is not a feat, youve yet to prove that. Taking down the top of a building? a already crumbling damaged building, the thing is barely holding together, not to menstion how is that a higher feat than holding someone? its worthless, its like a Raziel blast.

false, its speed, no human can move instantly forwards as fast as kain in a straight line.

whats to say Kain cannot attack in his second of fading in?

erm no, your kind of crap is when you dont even post anything, unfortatley this is not a gameplay mechanic, its a static object untouched by balance. No that rubbish IS gameplay mechanic, heres the diffrent: Raziel is moving puzzle static blocks untouched by game mechanics and balancing, Cloud is being HIT by blocks, taking into account player damage values such as damage per hit of boulders, just like damge values of weapons in games where swords do 100 or w/e, thats the mechanic. You fail again.

why THE sephiroth? if its not even a canon event then unless someone official has said all the powers he uses against the player are canon then they are not since that sephiroth is not canon event.

No because Materia are not specific to him, technically they are canon, the materia itself is canon, the fact is you could not use it for cloud in a debate because its not just his, its like flay artifacts in BO, their just objects to use and anyone can do so wheras spells and abilities Kain gains are his to gain alone.

False, Dante gains many weapons and abilities he does not see using in other games, in DMC he has cerberus and ragni and rudra, he never uses them after htat game, but does that mean their uncanon? nopes.....

no it does not ,if an object/ability is in a game especially like LOK, its canon if its not unlockable or an extra.

No he doesnt, answer this, does he or does he not use omnislash at the end, not in the beginning? [/B]

Sephiroth is a street leveler? K

because only Kain learns the spells, thats the fact, only Kain gains them in the game, simple.....

Did the spells have anything to do with the story? No
Did the spells ever appear again afterwards? No
Did Kain still have the any of the spells ability afterwards? No
Did Kain even mention the spells afterwards? No
Are the spells optional? Yes
Are the spells canon to the LOK story? Most likely not.

No nothing has to appear over and over to excist in canon, sorry.

No all of Dantes and Kains powers are canon, simple, their all in the games, Dante does gain various items and powers during the game and their canon to the character, jsut because he doesnt have Cerberus in the next game doesnt mean theyve just dispeared, or Agni and Rudra, or Kalina anne (altho i heard he still has it in a nother game, he doesnt have it in DMC 1 which is based after DMC 3) but that does not mean there never excisted such a weapon, or dante never got it etc......thats where the uncanon game mechanic comes in that reduces the characters abilities in another game to make it diffrent ,so they dont have all the same abilities or powers every game.

The extra optional weapons that Dante gets that never appear again and have nothing to do with the story are NOT canon.

Originally posted by Terryc250
What? They are NOT parts of him, they are beings Sephiroth manifested out of the negative lifestream, 3 of them do not equal Sephiroth, they have parts of Sephiroths emotions yes, but they don't have his power, if they were parts of Sephiroth, then 2 of them should be way more then enough to defeat Cloud, Cloud beat 2 of them, then straight up owned kadaj (who is the strongest of the 3)

Holy is a powerful force that destroys everything in its path.

Did i say he was slashing them with his sword? He was using his power and attacking at them, and no Cloud didnt say "ATTACK!" and they attacked, they said "this is the power of true power of Sephiroth?" or something, then they all got sucked in and attacked, then they start moaning in pain.

Uhh damaged building or not damaged building it makes no difference, its still moving hundreds of tons of concrete to push, and the fact that he effortlessly does it
watch at 3:30
YouTube video

That wasn't even fast i can move about as fast as that leaping forward.
Plz post it again.

The fact that hes unable to move until he fully fades in, Sephiroth can spot him as he's fading in and just instantly move behind him and kill him on the spot.

Wtf are you talking about? How is mine "gameplay mechanic" and yours not? There is no damage values wtf are you seeing, its not even in a battle, its ingame just as yours is, your just being stubborn and not conceding. Going by your logic Cloud should beable to have ultimate skin power.

It is Sephiroth, Tetsuya purposely created that as Sephiroth, not his twin brother or another person, but the character itself. The events are not canon to the story no, but the abilities/characters are the same.

Materia itself is canon yes, materia exists in the FF7 world because its proven to, and it has to do with the storyline, so yes it is canon, however; materia like knights of the round, bahamut zero, etc are not canon because nothing proves it.
What says any other vampire is not capable of acquiring the spells either? The point is, none of the spells had anything to do with the storyline, which hints at them not being canon, the spells never appearing again after the game, and Kain never talks about them and is unable to use them after the game basically proves it.

If they had nothing to do with the storyline and they never appear ever again, then yes, they are uncanon, they are like Clouds 50 weapons that no one ever debates over.

most optional things in any game are not canon, especially if they never appear again in the later games.

No, probably because he can't do it at will, just like ingame you cannot do it at will, you need to get attacked and damaged enough so that your limit break fills up, IMO that represents their emotion of some sort.

Did i say Sephiroth is a street leveler? No, hes higher then that, thats why I said smashing rocks is not impressive.. duh

... and this proves that no other vampires can learn the spells how?

Did the spells have anything to do with the story? No
Did the spells ever appear again afterwards? No
Did Kain still have the any of the spells ability afterwards? No
Did Kain even mention the spells afterwards? No
Are the spells optional? Yes
Are the spells canon to the LOK story? Most likely not.

No it doesnt, if its mentioned in the story then it is canon, appearing again and again just proves that it exists, or its the person ability.
No need to apologize for being wrong.

The only canon weapons and powers Dante has are the ones that actually have to do with the story, the abilities/style Dante has are infact canon, because they are actually his abilities/styles that he has throughout the games.

The extra optional weapons that Dante gets that never appear again and have nothing to do with the story are NOT canon.

Then why did you call them Remnants earlier?

prove this, show me holy again, and even if this is true then it is irrelevent, since nothing is in its path if its being held still, its not even moving, its not even doing anything if its held still in TK, which means anyone can do it to it, just because its powerful doesnt mean its power is hard to hold with an invisible force.

You said he was slashing the, you cant slash with anything other than bladed weapons, also thats false, Cloud says "try and move" or something and they all move forwards and get near him for about a second, then they fall back again and cloud says something like "its no good hes too strong, try again" and they succeed again in moving, only for a moment to get near him, then red cries out saying his tail feels like its ripping off, showing once again that Sephiroth TK is not that great in power if he cannot even rip the tail off straigh away which he would be able to do if he had to power to break tonnes of rock etc.

This is a crumbling damaged building, second can you show me what makes you think he is actually doing it? the building is falling apart as it is, by the looks of it to me, Sephiroth doesnt actually do anything, the building seems to be falling apart already and everything is on fire, it looks like this is some way of you trying to make your cahracter seem stronger in TK than he really is.

5:17=

he easily moves about 6 metres instantly in less than a fraction of a second, its far faster than ive seen Sephiroth display, far faster than Sephiroth or Loz can do in a blitz thats for sure, even if they are quicker, not enough to stop Kain from doing anything before they are destroyed

unable to move? as i said neither did sephiroth. Kill him with what? a stab through the stomach lmao.....id be surprised if he can barely cut Kain, his sword will prob go an inch through as he struggles to get it in and Kain laughs before blasting Sephiroth in half with one slash of his sword.

Yours is gameplay mechanic because the damage it does to cloud in-game is touched by balance in the game, hitpoints, things like that. Raziel lifting things is not touched by anything like that.

What makes you think the abilities are all canon, and the way they work? when FF7 teleport youve shown me and spells which are more canon contradict this? ill take the canon game over the non canon ty.

nothing proves it? it does by them being in the game, the game is canon, the spells are canon, all of them, until something says they are uncanon...simple, otherwise the game is not canon, what you have to debate with materia is that its not specific to any character, so you cant use it. Ive already told you, noone does, thats like saying who says other characters cant use Dantes styles, his powers like Vergil, same with quicksilver, but the thing is, their Dantes powers HE gains, just like kains spells are his.

Clouds 50 other weapons? thing is, what makes you think their uncanon? he gains them doesnt he? the fact remains he can only carry in truth so many weapons....people dont debate them because Buster sword is likely the best one of the lot, as well as being an icon for Cloud, its a sword he always specifically uses, like all items that are specifically for a character, like Kains soul reaver. They are indeed canon, just not specific, wheras Kains are both.

no? probably? so you dont know, and where does it say omnislash is dependant on rage? its just a move, why should you have to be angry to use it? i think Cloud was PIS just as much as sephiroth, maybe Sephiroth didnt use anything because he was low on Magicka or something or AP 🙄

Smashing rocks and smashing large ones with enormous tentacles is diffrnet.

It proves it the same way as i said with my Qucksilver for dante example, wether or not Kain is the only one "capable" is irrelevent, other characters can prob use Clouds swords, other characters can prob use many things in fiction but they dont in the games canon, they dont touch it, only Kain touches these and only kain gains them, making them canon and disqualifies all other points you have made.

As i said earlier, BS, optional weapons, agni and rudra are never seen again, but where are they I wonder? you think their uncanon or such? not at all, their in the game but dont excist again after that game even though its the first and he should always have them.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
I'm sorry, but what I did was point out a few facts, thats not flaming. If anything, Burning was flaming here:

Now please, keep your members who can't control their tempers or language in line.

Number one, no, that was not flaming at all. Your constant hostility is, though.

Number two, swearing is not against the rules here. There's a profanity filter in place, and 99% of the time you're not going to get in trouble for language unless you bypass that.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Please don't lie to the moderators. As you know, official broadcast groups all classify the term "Jesus Christ" as profanity.

Irrelevant. And we know how to read.

So I would close your mouth if I were you. You don't argue a moderator decision in public.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Then why did you call them Remnants earlier?

prove this, show me holy again, and even if this is true then it is irrelevent, since nothing is in its path if its being held still, its not even moving, its not even doing anything if its held still in TK, which means anyone can do it to it, just because its powerful doesnt mean its power is hard to hold with an invisible force.

You said he was slashing the, you cant slash with anything other than bladed weapons, also thats false, Cloud says "try and move" or something and they all move forwards and get near him for about a second, then they fall back again and cloud says something like "its no good hes too strong, try again" and they succeed again in moving, only for a moment to get near him, then red cries out saying his tail feels like its ripping off, showing once again that Sephiroth TK is not that great in power if he cannot even rip the tail off straigh away which he would be able to do if he had to power to break tonnes of rock etc.

Here is the direct FF7 Script:

Scene 141
- Judgment Day - The One-Winged Angel -

(Cloud falls in slow-motion through blackness. The only light is from a glowing white sphere in the center of the screen. It pulsates with energy as though it were a beating heart. Cloud continues to fall toward it.)

Li......ght......
A light........
Is this.......
Is this light...... Holy?

(He falls into the light. The scene abruptly changes. The core of the Planet. In the undulating green glow is a round, red stone structure. It forms tendrils, almost but not quite concealing what is inside- a pulsating white sphere. The structure is surrounded by many smaller stone platforms. The entire party rests unconscious on these. After a moment, Barret stands.)

Barret
"Oww... damn, man!"

(Cloud gets to his feet.)

Cloud
"Barret!?"

(The rest of the party comes to.)

Barret
"What...? So everyone's together again...?"

(Suddenly, a ring of white fire shoots from the center of the sphere. The party is levitated, struggling, into the air.)

"Uuuugh...!!"

(Sephiroth's face flashes in front of the camera for a split second. His theme begins to play as he vanishes, only to reappear, materializing from the center of the sphere.)

Cloud
"...Sephiroth!!"

(Another ring of white fire emanates from the sphere, driving the party further from Sephiroth.)

Barret
"Ugh...! Is this...... the true power of Sephiroth?"

Cid
"My... my body... I can't control my body...... Uuugh!?"

(Sephiroth draws the party nearer with his mental powers, only to torment them with another fire ring.)

Red XIII
"My front legs...... my hind legs...... my tail's about to tear off!!"

Cait Sith
"This is definitely not good...... He's way outta our league..."

Yuffie
"I, I don't know if I can... go on..."

(The screen flashes and the party spins in the air like toys.)

then goes on to talk about holy and aeris

Cloud
"Aerith's memories... Our memories..."
"We came... to tell you... our memories... Come Planet! Show us your answer!"
"And Sephiroth! To the settling of everything!!"

(The screen flashes. The rock structure and green haze begin to waver, undulate, and finally collapse in on themselves, leaving the party and Sephiroth suspended in darkness. Sephiroth draws the party in to him and transforms.)

(Boss battle with Bizzaro Sephiroth)

This is a crumbling damaged building, second can you show me what makes you think he is actually doing it? the building is falling apart as it is, by the looks of it to me, Sephiroth doesnt actually do anything, the building seems to be falling apart already and everything is on fire, it looks like this is some way of you trying to make your cahracter seem stronger in TK than he really is.

5:17=

YouTube video

he easily moves about 6 metres instantly in less than a fraction of a second, its far faster than ive seen Sephiroth display, far faster than Sephiroth or Loz can do in a blitz thats for sure, even if they are quicker, not enough to stop Kain from doing anything before they are destroyed

I put it a bit above Kain because he is leaning forward and bending his legs

Second of all, if you actually watch it he LAUNCHES himself and moves with MOMENTUM, people can leap with momentum 4 meters in less then a second as well.

unable to move? as i said neither did sephiroth. Kill him with what? a stab through the stomach lmao.....id be surprised if he can barely cut Kain, his sword will prob go an inch through as he struggles to get it in and Kain laughs before blasting Sephiroth in half with one slash of his sword.

Yours is gameplay mechanic because the damage it does to cloud in-game is touched by balance in the game, hitpoints, things like that. Raziel lifting things is not touched by anything like that.

What makes you think the abilities are all canon, and the way they work? when FF7 teleport youve shown me and spells which are more canon contradict this? ill take the canon game over the non canon ty.

nothing proves it? it does by them being in the game, the game is canon, the spells are canon, all of them, until something says they are uncanon...simple, otherwise the game is not canon, what you have to debate with materia is that its not specific to any character, so you cant use it. Ive already told you, noone does, thats like saying who says other characters cant use Dantes styles, his powers like Vergil, same with quicksilver, but the thing is, their Dantes powers HE gains, just like kains spells are his.

The fact is, they were optional, had nothing to do with the story, and never actually stayed with the character.

Clouds 50 other weapons? thing is, what makes you think their uncanon? he gains them doesnt he? the fact remains he can only carry in truth so many weapons....people dont debate them because Buster sword is likely the best one of the lot, as well as being an icon for Cloud, its a sword he always specifically uses, like all items that are specifically for a character, like Kains soul reaver. They are indeed canon, just not specific, wheras Kains are both.

Soul Reaver is canon because it is canon to the storyline, however if there was an optional weapon that Kain could get like a wooden sword in BO1 and it had nothing to do with the story, then after BO1, that wooden sword is unheard of again, then that wooden sword, is uncanon.

no? probably? so you dont know, and where does it say omnislash is dependant on rage? its just a move, why should you have to be angry to use it? i think Cloud was PIS just as much as sephiroth, maybe Sephiroth didnt use anything because he was low on Magicka or something or AP 🙄

Sephiroth obviously was just tormenting Cloud, the SHM were using magic all the time, if the SHM were able to, obviously Sephiroth can, he just didn't want to, not only did it say Sephiroth didn't exert himself in the UOG, it was just plain obvious in the fight, as he kept him alive, and didn't use any of his powers.

Smashing rocks and smashing large ones with enormous tentacles is diffrnet.

It proves it the same way as i said with my Qucksilver for dante example, wether or not Kain is the only one "capable" is irrelevent, other characters can prob use Clouds swords, other characters can prob use many things in fiction but they dont in the games canon, they dont touch it, only Kain touches these and only kain gains them, making them canon and disqualifies all other points you have made.

The big fact here is that, the spells are optional, not relavent to the story, Kain never is able to use them after the game, and never heard of again after BO1

As i said earlier, BS, optional weapons, agni and rudra are never seen again, but where are they I wonder? you think their uncanon or such? not at all, their in the game but dont excist again after that game even though its the first and he should always have them. [/B]