Safer Sephiroth vs. Kain

lawlz, not really, a Soldier "tries" to impale Kain, but ends up hitting nothing but mist, their not that much faster at all, infact their speed is not that impressive, only the top soldiers seem to show some true speed from what ive seen but please tell me, why would impaling Kain do anything?

Also this is gameplay, if it was not gameplay then this Sephiroth would be douched 100 times as fast as if it was gameplay. Kain would toss around soldiers like soiled rags, they wouldnt touch him.

correction, Kain in FF7 would mean FF7 would not last long at all, they would be nothing but scattered pieces. You obviously know nothing of Kain

You really are a Kain fanboy, either that or you've never actually played the LoK series. If Kain were impaled he'd be dead, same as any other vampire. Go through Soul Reaver again.

SOLDIER 3rd >>>>>>>>> Kain.

No not really...and yes I have, its you who have not played LOk series, the normal Nosgoth Vampries take into account normal, the fledlings Raziel fights when impaled die because it puts a stake through their bodies, their hearts, Kain does not have a heart, so please go through Soul reaver AND Defiance.....id be more surprised if the swords even pierce Kain

Soldier 3rd<<<<<<<Blood omen 1 Kain

Please. Even Kain's lieutenants are killed by impaling, Kain is no exception to this. A SOLDIER 3rd would easily impale Kain at his strongest and kill him, or just cast Firaga and he'd be burned to death. Blood Omen one Kain could be killed by a regular member of the ShinRa army.

Kains leutenants are nothing to Kain, you obviously know nothing of him and have not played Defiance, go play it, then come back to me, show me a 3rd easily slashing through something that could take over 10 tones of a sharp object hitting into them with ease first tho. And ofc thats taking the wild notion that Kain isnt just using his shield to just tool the whole Shinra army and Sephiroth.

Blood omen 1 Kain would shield, then one shot Sephiroth with Soul wrack or freeze him in time let alone a soldier......

The shield doesn't exist in the story, and SOLDIER 3rd hits with a lot more than 10 tons of force. He would get tooled by a SOLDIER 3rd.

Blood Omen 1 Kain doesn't have a shield either, silly, and would get wtfpwned by a single ShinRa grunt. Face it, you're idol is pathetic.

Kain has nothing on Sephiroth in terms of speed, and power

Sephiroth crushes him with TK, then smothers him with the negative lifestream, or simply chops off his dome.

Those abilities from Blood Omen were never used after BO in the other 4 games, and how many milleniums have passed since then? How do you know he still has them, didn't he lose them? Also those abilities only worked on common foes, Sephiroth definately is not a common foe.

now i think your having me on, you are just annoying me now for the fun of it arent you? you a Furion sock or something having a joke? i mean jesus christ...you dont know anything on LOK, you seem to think there is no shield now....

however show me, show me this over 10 tons of force, infact show me around 30 tones being easily sliced to pieces, then maybe ill even try to teach you something about LOk and discuss it at the same time

I dont idolise him, but hes a favoured character who would destroy many, especially girly men like Sephiroth and the rest of the queer FF casts.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Kain has nothing on Sephiroth in terms of speed, and power

Sephiroth crushes him with TK, then smothers him with the negative lifestream, or simply chops off his dome.

Those abilities from Blood Omen were never used after BO in the other 4 games, and how many milleniums have passed since then? How do you know he still has them, didn't he lose them? Also those abilities only worked on common foes, Sephiroth definately is not a common foe.

typical Terry rubbish as usual.

Speed? when? ive not really seen any high speed feats from Sephiroth, nothing special, power? yeh not without taking ages to cast anything, meteor, supernova (which according to this debate is some sort of illusion anyway), all take far too long

crush kain? he could barely hold the puny FF cast tight, what makes you think he could even touch kain with TK, then thats considering Kain doesnt just teleport out of it, before Sephiroth even moves his negative lifestream Kain could hold him fast with TK himself, and ive never seen Sephiroth teleport to escape anything, he seems to need movements like gestures to move neg lifestream which is too slow before kain wipes out sephiroth

they werent used, no but that does not mean anywhere in a rule that he loses them or cannot do them.....nothing says so, infact milleniums passing and what with kains evolution its more likely theyve become far more powerful than ever before. Those abilities in canon work on anything, the only way you can even try and squirm out of it is by using your often used and weak gameplay

The fact that we never see the shield outside of gameplay and it isn't even gameplay in every game proves that its just a game mechanic, and doesn't exisat in the story. Now you're getting desperate, silly Kain fanboy. A SOLDIER 3rd would wipe the floor with Kain.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
The fact that we never see the shield outside of gameplay and it isn't even gameplay in every game proves that its just a game mechanic, and doesn't exisat in the story. Now you're getting desperate, silly Kain fanboy. A SOLDIER 3rd would wipe the floor with Kain.

it doesnt prove anything, the game mechanic would be things like damage from swords, the old thing Terry loves like "bosses" and thingsl ike that, thats the mechanic, however the moves are documented as spells Kain gains throughout the game, many of which are required 100% to get through the adventure anyway.

erm....... you seem a very young debator and no offense but i do not like debating with people who are very young

I'm afraid that if something only appears in gameplay, and isn't even in the gameplay of every game in the series, it doesn't exist outside of gameplay, and therefore isn't canon. Stick to Kain's real feats, please, not embellishment of gameplay mechanics.

And if anyone here's young, I'm afraid its you champ. Young debaters usually have trouble distinguishing gameplay from story and canon, and ,like to make things up and wildly exaggerate their favorite character. Its ok, you'll be a grown up someday, sport.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
I'm afraid that if something only appears in gameplay, and isn't even in the gameplay of every game in the series, it doesn't exist outside of gameplay, and therefore isn't canon. Stick to Kain's real feats, please, not embellishment of gameplay mechanics.

And if anyone here's young, I'm afraid its you champ. Young debaters usually have trouble distinguishing gameplay from story and canon, and ,like to make things up and wildly exaggerate their favorite character. Its ok, you'll be a grown up someday, sport.

show me this rule please youve pulled out of your @ss, its documented in the game as Kains moves, its like saying that all of Dantes moves just beause their optional means that they are not canon or he cannot use any of them.....thats BS, same with his guns, you dont have to pick them up but their still his weapons he can use, your talking rubbish.

now your stamping your feet 🙄

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
A SOLDIER 3rd would easily impale Kain at his strongest and kill him, or just cast Firaga and he'd be burned to death.

Since when the hell has any (let alone all of them, or the average one) SOLDIER 3rd class even been shown to possess a materia as powerful as Firaga?

Originally posted by Burning thought

typical Terry rubbish as usual.

Speed? when? ive not really seen any high speed feats from Sephiroth, nothing special, power? yeh not without taking ages to cast anything, meteor, supernova (which according to this debate is some sort of illusion anyway), all take far too long

crush kain? he could barely hold the puny FF cast tight, what makes you think he could even touch kain with TK, then thats considering Kain doesnt just teleport out of it, before Sephiroth even moves his negative lifestream Kain could hold him fast with TK himself, and ive never seen Sephiroth teleport to escape anything, he seems to need movements like gestures to move neg lifestream which is too slow before kain wipes out sephiroth

Sephiroth held the entire FF cast and tortured them, took down the top of the building, and held a power strong enough to destroy everything with his TK, what has Kain ever down with his TK? Moved sceptors and little objects?

Sephiroth teleports in FF7, and in KH

Sephiroth uses TK with a thought, and Sephiroth is 10x faster then Kain, i've never seen Kain do it with a thought he needs to extend out his arm, also his TK is weak, with a gesture the NL crushes him.

they werent used, no but that does not mean anywhere in a rule that he loses them or cannot do them.....nothing says so, infact milleniums passing and what with kains evolution its more likely theyve become far more powerful than ever before. Those abilities in canon work on anything, the only way you can even try and squirm out of it is by using your often used and weak gameplay [/B]

Although you never see Kain do anything even close to impressive in a cutscene, or anything, his best feats are what he can do in gameplay..which isn't even impressive either, I use some gameplay because thats where Kain is even remotely useful, while you use your imaginary made up Kain

In all honesty though, Kain is nothing special, probably a city threat at best.

it doesnt prove anything, the game mechanic would be things like damage from swords, the old thing Terry loves like "bosses" and thingsl ike that, thats the mechanic, however the moves are documented as spells Kain gains throughout the game, many of which are required 100% to get through the adventure anyway.

erm....... you seem a very young debator and no offense but i do not like debating with people who are very young

The spells are even less canon'd then matera in FF7 are, just because they have descriptions of the spells in a manual, does not make them canon, you can find descriptions of materia in the official FF7 strategy guide.

Atleast in FF7 world, SOME of the same materia appear in the other FF7 games, those spells was just in BO, and were never used canonically in the story, and were unheard of after BO.

show me this rule please youve pulled out of your @ss, its documented in the game as Kains moves, its like saying that all of Dantes moves just beause their optional means that they are not canon or he cannot use any of them.....thats BS, same with his guns, you dont have to pick them up but their still his weapons he can use, your talking rubbish.

now your stamping your feet roll eyes (sarcastic)

Sorry sport, but when the facts get in tha way of your fanboyism, they win. Gameplay mechanics simply aren't canon. Kain doesn't have a shield. He's really just sad compared to most video game series. Sorry champ.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Speed? Even though we've never seen Sephiroth at his full speed, even his weak Remnant Loz, is multiple times faster then Kain, imagine how much faster Sephiroth is.

Sephiroth held the entire FF cast and tortured them, took down the top of the building, and held a power strong enough to destroy everything with his TK, what has Kain ever down with his TK? Moved sceptors and little objects?

Sephiroth teleports in FF7, and in KH

Sephiroth uses TK with a thought, and Sephiroth is 10x faster then Kain, i've never seen Kain do it with a thought he needs to extend out his arm, also his TK is weak, with a gesture the NL crushes him.

Well he can't do them in any of the games, so he most likely did lose them, or they just weren't canon to the story.

Although you never see Kain do anything even close to impressive in a cutscene, or anything, his best feats are what he can do in gameplay..which isn't even impressive either, I use some gameplay because thats where Kain is even remotely useful, while you use your imaginary made up Kain

In all honesty though, Kain is nothing special, probably a city threat at best.

The spells are even less canon'd then matera in FF7 are, just because they have descriptions of the spells in a manual, does not make them canon, you can find descriptions of materia in the official FF7 strategy guide.

Atleast in FF7 world, SOME of the same materia appear in the other FF7 games, those spells was just in BO, and were never used canonically in the story, and were unheard of after BO.

yes lets all imagine our own special versions of our characters..NOT....ime sorry but thats ridiculous, no imagining thank you..if anything hes likely equel to Loz if its a remnant of him.

Holding Holy is not a feat unless you can prove its difficult to hold it....its power when it hits doesnt mean anything when its just floating in the air, especially since nobody else tries doing it as well, it also makes sense that its easy to hold, since if going by your logic its impressive Sephiroths TK has to strength to hold its power (which is ludcrious because nowhere in logic nor the game does it state it should be difficult to hold just because its powerful) then Sephiroth shouldnt need to use any powers, his TK should be enough to destroy cities if he can hold the power of holy with his TK which according to you proportions his TK power, ofc, its like the rest of your BS, not real....imaginary like you like to imagine sephiroths speed

move scepters and objects (like sephiroths sword) as well as hold people still in the air (like sephiroths body) unlike sephiroth who couldnt hold them properly....

10x faster? when he has no speed feats....
lawlz, with a gesture NL moves towards him, which ofc misses, its too slow and kain will have already destroyed sephiroth by then...

show me him in FF7 teleporting

You need most of the spells for elements, your talking utter BS as usual but ill humour myself by answering this rubbish, first he uses it in BO 1, furthermore, he uses new spells in BO 2 yet doesnt use them in other variants, does that mean he loses them? no, not at all....it would take a canon event in-game to take away powers to mean they are gone, since nothing happened, your pathetic "zomg they were not used in other games" is nothing.

no ive got no "made up kain" but wahts funny is that you say "imagine" sephiroths speed earlier directly, your a poor debator and your using game mechanics like "bosses" for example to try and add anything to your weak FF idol which is very low. As i said earlier with Dante, all Dantes powers are canon, so are Kains in the same way, their all powers Kain has by the end of the game and such.

in FF sephiroth is not much of thread at all, he gets pwned by an Emo blonde guy with a ridiclously large sword, if he was in the LOK universe he wouldnt even of done anything, he would be dead before he half started his quest and before he even had the notion to start it what with all those who can see the future. Sephiroth is nothing, unless ofcourse you give him days of prep to start casting his spells, Otherwise hes just a lame quick sword wielding shemale.

less canon? not at all, ther used by Kain, Kain gains them, nothing else states he loses them, Kain hismelf says he gains them after every one, making it more officia, Materia however is something more of an item, you gain it, unlike actually having it imprinted on your mind or learnt or empowered in your body, its like a item you select, liike Dantes holy water which means it is not special to sephiroth or other characters.

in the other FF7 games, exactley, its the same game, just like BO is...their powers that kain gains, end of story, you seem to confuse game mechanics and spells gained, you also confuse whats canon with whats an ability, by your logic half of Dantes powers are all uncanon, same with most characters in gaming. There is no rule that something has to be used in a cutscene to excist thats for sure, your just begging there is so Kain doesnt just completly obliterate your idol.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Sorry sport, but when the facts get in tha way of your fanboyism, they win. Gameplay mechanics simply aren't canon. Kain doesn't have a shield. He's really just sad compared to most video game series. Sorry champ.

Ill reply when your a little older and stop stamping your feet, maybe mummy will get you a present later and youll feel better

Awww, don't feel sad Jr. I know you're favorite character is a 6 year old girl according to canon, but you'll be a big kid some day. Then you can find a new favorite character. Until then, you have to stop having these fanboy tantrums though, ok kiddo? You can't thow yourself on the floor and scream nonsense because you can't accept the truth that Kain has no impressive feats and would be killed by impaling just like any other vampire.

Originally posted by Burning thought
yes lets all imagine our own special versions of our characters..NOT....ime sorry but thats ridiculous, no imagining thank you..if anything hes likely equel to Loz if its a remnant of him.

Holding Holy is not a feat unless you can prove its difficult to hold it....its power when it hits doesnt mean anything when its just floating in the air, especially since nobody else tries doing it as well, it also makes sense that its easy to hold, since if going by your logic its impressive Sephiroths TK has to strength to hold its power (which is ludcrious because nowhere in logic nor the game does it state it should be difficult to hold just because its powerful) then Sephiroth shouldnt need to use any powers, his TK should be enough to destroy cities if he can hold the power of holy with his TK which according to you proportions his TK power, ofc, its like the rest of your BS, not real....imaginary like you like to imagine sephiroths speed

move scepters and objects (like sephiroths sword) as well as hold people still in the air (like sephiroths body) unlike sephiroth who couldnt hold them properly....

10x faster? when he has no speed feats....
lawlz, with a gesture NL moves towards him, which ofc misses, its too slow and kain will have already destroyed sephiroth by then...

Your really trying to push that Kain is faster then Sephiroth? And that he can kill Sephiroth before Sephiroth can make a gesture even though Sephiroth is in fact MUCH faster then Kain? Kain has exactly no speed feats, nothing that indicates he's even fast at all.

show me him in FF7 teleporting

You need most of the spells for elements, your talking utter BS as usual but ill humour myself by answering this rubbish, first he uses it in BO 1, furthermore, he uses new spells in BO 2 yet doesnt use them in other variants, does that mean he loses them? no, not at all....it would take a canon event in-game to take away powers to mean they are gone, since nothing happened, your pathetic "zomg they were not used in other games" is nothing.

no ive got no "made up kain" but wahts funny is that you say "imagine" sephiroths speed earlier directly, your a poor debator and your using game mechanics like "bosses" for example to try and add anything to your weak FF idol which is very low. As i said earlier with Dante, all Dantes powers are canon, so are Kains in the same way, their all powers Kain has by the end of the game and such.

in FF sephiroth is not much of thread at all, he gets pwned by an Emo blonde guy with a ridiclously large sword, if he was in the LOK universe he wouldnt even of done anything, he would be dead before he half started his quest and before he even had the notion to start it what with all those who can see the future. Sephiroth is nothing, unless ofcourse you give him days of prep to start casting his spells, Otherwise hes just a lame quick sword wielding shemale.

What does Kain have? Nothing, he hasn't proven himself a threat to anything.

less canon? not at all, ther used by Kain, Kain gains them, nothing else states he loses them, Kain hismelf says he gains them after every one, making it more officia, Materia however is something more of an item, you gain it, unlike actually having it imprinted on your mind or learnt or empowered in your body, its like a item you select, liike Dantes holy water which means it is not special to sephiroth or other characters.

Imprinted in your mind if you actually get the spell in canon, but theres nothing that proves Kain actually did.

in the other FF7 games, exactley, its the same game, just like BO is...their powers that kain gains, end of story, you seem to confuse game mechanics and spells gained, you also confuse whats canon with whats an ability, by your logic half of Dantes powers are all uncanon, same with most characters in gaming. There is no rule that something has to be used in a cutscene to excist thats for sure, your just begging there is so Kain doesnt just completly obliterate your idol.

The only powers Dante has that are canon are the ones that actually exist in canon.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Its called [b]logic use a little brain power and you can figure it out, i'm pretty sure even a 5 year old can. If Galactus created his herald, by logic, who is more powerful? A remnant is equal to the original? Uh by definition a remnant is just a fragmant, so how exactly "if anything" would he be equal to Sephiroth? He's a just a fragmant of Sephiroths power, not even a third of Sephiroths power, all 3 of them combined are not equal to Sephiroth, all 3 of them combined couldn't even defeat Cloud, yet Sephiroth toying around can.

Again, use your logic, if something is powerful enough to destroy everything on the planet chances are, it is hard to contain. BS? Wtf are you talking about? It happens in the game, and it IS canon, unlike your Kain feats.

And those are supposed to be TK feats? Those are a laugh, Sephiroth would crush Kain in a battle of TK.

Loz is about 10x faster then Kain, Loz is just a fragmant of Sephiroth, so by logic, Sephiroth is atleast 10x faster as well.

Your really trying to push that Kain is faster then Sephiroth? And that he can kill Sephiroth before Sephiroth can make a gesture even though Sephiroth is in fact MUCH faster then Kain? Kain has exactly no speed feats, nothing that indicates he's even fast at all.

6:45, one of the many times he teleports in FF7.
YouTube video

Means the developers are just trying out new spells, he gets to use spells in BO1 that were never used canonically, then those spells never appear again, BO2 theres a new set of spells that are never used canonically, and once again, they never appear again in the LOK series. If Kain actually had them in canon, well.. maybe you think he'd actually HAVE them in the later games.

Again USE your logic, I'm using game mechanics? And you are using nothing but gameplay as well, Kain has NO feats at all, so thats why we BOTH are using gameplay, Dante's style and powers that he uses in CANON are CANON, because they actually appear in his other games, quicksilver for example was used in a cutscene which means he actually gets it in the storyline, those spells are even LESS canon then materia is in FF7, atleast in FF7 you get to see that Cloud gains materia in AC, and that some of the same materia appear in other games.

The guy was a planetary threat, he infected the lifestream and had power over it, thats like taking control over the dead souls, and the power source of everything, created his own plague and actually has feats to back up his power.

What does Kain have? Nothing, he hasn't proven himself a threat to anything.

So i gained every materia in the game in my FF file, does that make it canon? No
Kain said he gained ALL of those spells in the story? No.

Imprinted in your mind if you actually get the spell in canon, but theres nothing that proves Kain actually did.

..Its not the same game, its the same story, based in the same world, DOC, CC, FF7, BC are all seperate games, one is for ps2, psp, psx, and a cellphone.

The only powers Dante has that are canon are the ones that actually exist in canon. [/B]

Are all his remnants as fast as loz tho? if its a piece of him, then its a part of him, so that seems to be his speed fragment, where are you getting all these figuires from? your @ss? 10x? wtf is that all about, he could be only 4x, he probably is not much faster at all, someone does not have to be fast to be powerful, your buddy sephiroth shows us that when he takes forever to cast one of his spells that are actually good but are powerful.

No that does not require logic at all, its obvious and easy to see that something with power within it, does not have to be hard to contain...it cant exactley fight TK barriers, its power is not in its movement either, your talking out of your @ss there is ZERO to say its hard to hold with TK and so its not a feat

well yeh thats a damn good feat of Kains, considering Sephiroth struggles to hold people, Sephiroth would end up in TK shackles and unable to do anything.

BS again, Loz is no way 10x faster than Kain...he is maybe 2x, 3x faster, but 10? BS again, stop overhyping your lovers

Ive seen Sephiroth make his little gestures, he takes ages, to gesture NL he takes far too long to control it before Kain teleports with his reaver in Sephiroths head or simply TKs sephiroth to the ground, Sephiroth has no options at all, if he tries to gesture, Kain could gesture and lock Sephiroth so tight in TK he has no chance, if Sephiroth tries to TK kain first, Kain wins by teleportation from the TK with his reaver in Sephiroth....

Kain does not have to be faster, but he sure is not as slow as you try and make out, yes ive shown you his speed feat, ive not shown you the fact it would take over 40+ tons of sharp force into him to damage him with melee as well, ive never seen Sephiroth dish out 40+ tons of strikes so even if he does try and hit kain, he would end up with his sword bouncing.

That is what you call teleporting? he takes forever to even move, thats no true teleport, and the rest of the time he just goes flying up in the air....

You mean use them in the later games? why? theres is no CANON event that takes them away, if someone gains an ability or power in a game that is specific to them, then its their power unless they lose it, its canon.

Ime not using any gameplay, ime using Canon abilities, where it says in the script by Kain every spell he gains, there doesnt have to be a little cutscene that says he has the spell in canon, hell show me the rule please, cough up the special rule that a move has to be even seen in a cutscene to be canon? hell the cutscene of quicksilver is contradicted by more sources like documentation, for example the only source that says it stops time is the cutscene, the description of the ability and items however say it slows it, so the cutscene is contradicted. Again show me this out of your @ss rule, their acquired exactley the same way Kains spells are, infact you dont even really need to pick up half the weapons, and the abilities are a buy system.....Materia in FF is just an RPG element half the time, their things you just upgrade and pick up and are not character specific.

Planetary threat my @ss, he gets beaten by a emo kid with a big sword.....he is worthless, Kain defeats the entity that controls the wheel of fate, the souls of the dead, and who controls life, death and rebirth....

yes he did say he gained the spells, after every spell he has script saying he gains the spell, Simon Templeman doesnt have that in his script if its not in the game or if its uncanon, its an ability like in 1000 other fictional games and titles and more characters gain abilities which are all canon, they dont need little cutscenes.

All of Dantes skills and abilities are canon, thats the thing....he gains them, same way as kain does, their both and are all canon, the only ones that are uncanon, are costumes and aftergame bonuses and extras, unlockable content, but if you gain it in the main story while playing through its canon.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Sorry sport, but when the facts get in tha way of your fanboyism, they win. Gameplay mechanics simply aren't canon. Kain doesn't have a shield. He's really just sad compared to most video game series. Sorry champ.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Awww, don't feel sad Jr. I know you're favorite character is a 6 year old girl according to canon, but you'll be a big kid some day. Then you can find a new favorite character. Until then, you have to stop having these fanboy tantrums though, ok kiddo? You can't thow yourself on the floor and scream nonsense because you can't accept the truth that Kain has no impressive feats and would be killed by impaling just like any other vampire.