If it were a real space and not an illusion they wouldn't make the distinction between their illusionary space and saying that Bahamut Shin can interact with the real world. If the space the other summons draws their victims into were real and not illusionary, they would not have made this distinction.
The distinction should be obvious. Bahamut Shin is summoned into the "real" world, instead of a temporary breaching between dimensions.
The simple fact here is that "space" does not translate to "illusion." Space is an area or volume that exists in a physical sense, an illusion is, by definition, a distortion of the brain's sensory perception, and is therefore entirely mental and non-physical.
The quote never said Bahamut Shin is the only summon that is able to be summoned to the real world, again Shadow Creepers in AC were capable as well, illusions was never mentioned ANYWHERE and has never been proven that any summons had any "illusion" effect.
Also, i never admitted to bringing them into an illusionary place, if you go back and read my posts i say bring them into their own "realm"
You have no proof whatsoever for your theory, GK. Not to mention that a breach between dimension is still a real place, and the creators made sure we knew that other than B Shin the summons don't interact with the real world.
Instead of making up ludicrous and baseless theories, just accept that the summons bring you into an ilusionary realm, and that Supernova is no different.
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
You have no proof whatsoever for your theory, GK. Not to mention that a breach between dimension is still a real place, and the creators made sure we knew that other than B Shin the summons don't interact with the real world.Instead of making up ludicrous and baseless theories, just accept that the summons bring you into an ilusionary realm, and that Supernova is no different.
What proof do you have for your theory? Why should anyone accept it?
I always thought it was common sense that when you summon something, you summon it from some other realm. Nothing to do with illusions.
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
You have no proof whatsoever for your theory, GK. Not to mention that a breach between dimension is still a real place, and the creators made sure we knew that other than B Shin the summons don't interact with the real world.Instead of making up ludicrous and baseless theories, just accept that the summons bring you into an ilusionary realm, and that Supernova is no different.
What I said is perfectly logical reasoning following from an official source of information. It is certainly more logical than claiming that the Summons are completely illusory, when you can't ignore the fact that they affect their victims in a very real way - typically mortally so.
As Peach says, you don't summon illusions. The common concept of summoning is to call forth an entity or force from another dimension/realm/plane/whatever-you-like. Many (to use a word directly from said official source) of the Summons from VII simply have the distinction of bringing their dimension with them when they're summoned.
Are you all blind? Go play Crisis Core. WHile the summoned beasts are real and can hurt their target, the environmental effects they cause are an illusion. If the environmental effects were real, and another dimension is still real whearas an illusion is not, they would not differentiate bewteen the summons realm and the REAL WORLD. The fact that they differentiate proves the summons realms are not real, making them illsuions.
Its the exact same thing with the training simulator on the SOLDIER floor of the ShinRa building. It all virtual reality, an illusion, but it can cause very real damage. A VR Behemoth was capable of killing Zack, and an illusionary Sephiroth broke his real sword in two. So that proves that even things of an ilusionary nature in FF VII can cause very real harm.
This isn't something that's up for debate, the creators have already settled the matter for us, and common sense reconfirms their words and intentions.
For starters, they specifically said in the Ultimania that Bahamut Shin is an exception and can attack the real world, so that is in no way evidence for every summon. And secondly, because Crisis Core is the most recent entry in canon it trumps anything before it, so even if B SHin wasn't an exception CC would have retconned it.
Is the Odin's Gunge Lance Summon also an exception?
Only it's the exact same summon that appears in 8 i believe and destroys something that makes it canon.
Therefore since it is the very same thing, one must pose the question as to why you believe it to be different. There is no logical reason to do so. When coupled with the name of it, A summon, that immediately points it out that you are calling forth aid into the real world to help you.
Though i have to question the point of debating so fiercely on what seems to me to be a pretty mush irrelevant point
Seeing as how FF VII and VIII are entirely different universes, its not the same summon. In Crisis Core we see how Odin truly works, as a being that causes enviromental illsusions, like the rest of the summons.
Also, we're debating this because Terry illogically thinks Supernova destroying the solar system isn't an illusion, and then said that the summons aren't illusions so why should SN be. His argument backfired, however, when I showed that Crisis Core and the creators tell us that the summons environmental effecta are indeed illusions, and its the same with Supernova.
Backfired.. ? Ummm, you realized you've been owned by like everyone on this thread right? Theres no such thing as magical illusions in FF7, never been shown, no evidence, never ever been mentioned.
In Crisis Core they are NOT illusions, what makes you think that? They brought them into their own "space" (where the f*** did you get illusions from?) and the quote NEVER says Bahamut Shin is the ONLY summon to beable to attack the real world, in AC the Shadow Creepers were CLEARLY attacking the real world just as Bahamut Shin was.
Again, illusions as magic/summons have never been mentioned, heard of, proved, or anything in the entire FF7 story.
Firstly fascistcrusader, with the ambiguity of language, and the potential inaccuracies there can be between translations, you can't just simply interpret the passage in such a way when the conclusion that you draw from it isn't in any way supported by the original source material. If the creators truly intended the change in setting upon a Summon's arrival to have been illusory in nature, it would most likely have been made obvious, and not subtly included into the text in a way which was clearly never intended to have been analysed as in depth as you have been doing.
You also keep on telling people to play Crisis Core; I have, and nothing indicates that the setting change is in any semblance a product of an illusion - as it stands, the only thing that supports your conclusion is your asinine interpretation of the creators' words.
Now as for why a distinction is made between Gaia and the Summons' dimension in terms of how "real" they are, as should have been fairly obvious, Gaia is the setting in the story where everything takes place, the place that all the characters perceive as being their planet, and exactly what the story's based around, whereas these summons' dimensions are purely temporary locations that -- from the perspective of Gaia and all that is encompasses -- ceases to exist as soon as the summon is no longer in action. They're not part of "the real world" in that sense, not in the sense that they're not physical in nature and act -- and with no real purpose -- as an illusion. As has already been said to you, the very passage that you're basing your conclusion off of, through its use of language, disproves your already silly and unsupported theory.
Ambiguity of the language? Wow. You really are delusional. It states right there that Bahamut Shin interacts with the real world, and that the others have their own space. Now, logically, if their space isn't real, it must be an illusion. We know that supernova has an illusion that accompanies it, we know from the VR simulator that illusions can cause real damage, and we know from Sephiroth showing Cloud the real Nibelheim at the Northern Crater that illusions do happen in FF VII.
Now please, stop making socks to try to support your pathetic arguments.
One might argue from the simulator it only hurt him because he broken a real weapon and that hit him.Example the Likari didn't slice him in half like it did the gigantic canon.
We're talking about Zack, not Genesis. An entirely VR Sephiroth broke Zack's very real SOLDIER sword in two, and Angeal had to save Zack. Then later on when Hojo is having Zack test some simulations he makes it clear that even though they aren't real, the damage they can cause is real.
A holographic training machine, proves illusions can cause real damage how?
How do you not get this? You pretty much answered it in the question.
They images in the training room aren't real, they're illusionary. These same images can cause lethal damage, as we're told by Hojo and the fact that a fake Sephiroth broke Zack's sword. This proves that illsuions can cause damage in the world of FF VII.