If you are an atheist...

Originally posted by queeq

No one is stripping rights from anyone. As stated before, there is a Trias Politica in most Western Democracies and there is such a thing as the constitution. In most Western democracies the Freedom of Religion is a constitutional right. Removing unborn embryos from a womb is not a right included in the constitution. It is in fact no right at all until it's legalised. That's basically what's going on: a group of people trying to attain a new right.

i see it as a group of people trying to strip the rights of other people. i find my take logically sound simply because nobody is being forced to have an abortion, but rather forced not to. you were supposed to examine the moral implications of my statement.

also, just fyi, criminalization of drug use is against the constitution, and look how that worked out. with the right manipulation, the constitution can and has been rendered useless in preserving the rights of u.s. citizens.

Originally posted by queeq
And yes, if a 2/3 majority would decide to remove the constitutional right of Freedom of Religion and would even forbid it, then that would be democratic indeed. A People's Democracy like the Soviet Union did have religion forbidden, so it's not such a big fantasy thing to have such a situation. Freedom is take too much for granted these days, be happy with the freedom you have. And feel free to attain more, just don't go screaming you have the RIGHT to have all the freedom you think you deserve.

'be happy with the freedom that i have'. the mantra of any dictatorship.
a truly 'free' society is not one which is oppressive, and ESPECIALLY not a theocracy, which all this pro-life crap is rooted in.

Originally posted by willRules

I was gonna add posts like this from others here, but I thought showing how many of these "respectful" comments came from one user was a much more powerful argument. ✅

argument of what? that you have a bigoted mentallity and wish to paint athiests as being rude and vile and spewing venom? oh, except the few that you know. how sweet. thats kind of like telling a black guy "you're nice for a black person. not like all those other dirty n*****s. you're one of the good ones"

Originally posted by Schecter
a truly 'free' society is not one which is oppressive, and ESPECIALLY not a theocracy, which all this pro-life crap is rooted in.

I don't even think it exists. But Western society does have the freedom to strive for more freedom, and the porspect of even achieving that. I think that's quite a luxuruous position compared to many other parts in this world. But there's freedom for the individual and there's freedom for all co-habitants. They may clash, your freedom may inhibit the freedom of others.
And when it comes to abortion, it's just a matter of something being legal or not. To have opinion whether you like a law or not, is part of the freedom we already have attained.
In my country it's already legal. So it's a bit different here. But I still think people who object to it (and Bardock is right to say it's a philosophical question) are entitled to. They don't strip rights, they object and also offer alternatives. That's pretty responsible, not just shouting.

Originally posted by Schecter
argument of what? that you have a bigoted mentallity and wish to paint athiests as being rude and vile and spewing venom? oh, except the few that you know. how sweet. thats kind of like telling a black guy "you're nice for a black person. not like all those other dirty n*****s. you're one of the good ones"

dont label people, will, by a small percentage of the actual population. thats like finding one mutant baby and thing, oh all humans must look like this. there are tons ofvariations you just have to look for them

Originally posted by chickenlover98
the stuff under your name just doesnt sum it up enough 😉 i wish u came on the religion forum. its true though. im one of the angry atheists, but i seriously that even 1/3 of atheists feel like i do.

dont label people, will, by a small percentage of the actual population. thats like finding one mutant baby and thing, oh all humans must look like this. there are tons ofvariations you just have to look for them

Originally posted by Bardock42
Wow, you can't form a coherent thought, can you?

Chuck will understand, chickenlover.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
I have a question for all people who do not believe any religion at all or even the possibility of God.

It seems through the media and message boards like this that atheists are much more likely to insult religious people and stereotype them as stupid and ignorant. Of course, the few atheists I have known have never acted that way, so please understand I am not grouping you together.

But my question is: does it bother you in some way when someone says they are of faith? It just seems like some atheists like to "do us a favor" by telling us how stupid we all are. I suppose that's the equivalent of a missionary going out and trying to convert, but it seems more aggressive. What is your take on people of faith? Do any faiths bother you more than others? What are your takes on Wicca and beliefs that don't really acknowledge a God per se? Just curious on what makes you tick.

I will admit, I used to have a severe dislike of Christianity, but then I calmed down a bit, when I realized just because many people share a religion, does not mean they all think alike.

It doesn't bother me for someone to believe in God. Not in the slightest. What DOES bother me is when people claim they know God's will. That is total stupidity.

I hope I don't have to explain to you why.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
I will admit, I used to have a severe dislike of Christianity, but then I calmed down a bit, when I realized just because many people share a religion, does not mean they all think alike.

It doesn't bother me for someone to believe in God. Not in the slightest. What DOES bother me is when people claim they know God's will. That is total stupidity.

I hope I don't have to explain to you why.

How do you mean "know God's will," exactly? I'm just going for specifics because I'm interested. I mean, yes, I am in total agreement with you for people that choose to impose their beliefs on other people using the excuse that it is God's will, such as many establishments in the Middle East, but on an individual basis, part of being a Christian is trying to discover what God's will is and trying to do it. It's very hard to explain, and I'm sure at times it can be hard for you to explain your belief system too. I was just wondering what you meant.

How do you mean "know God's will,"

It does bother me when people say they believe in God. Most people really couldn't defend their position when I talked to them, and had just been brainwashed into believing. It's a bit sad to see people just crumble when they try and think logically about God, and it's a sad state when people's belief in god is not founded on rationality, since those people mire themselves in ignorance. It's the kind of faith pushed by Evangelicals and I think some christians actively avoid logical thought since they know they will feel bad about themselves.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
How do you mean "know God's will," exactly? I'm just going for specifics because I'm interested. I mean, yes, I am in total agreement with you for people that choose to impose their beliefs on other people using the excuse that it is God's will, such as many establishments in the Middle East, but on an individual basis, part of being a Christian is trying to discover what God's will is and trying to do it. It's very hard to explain, and I'm sure at times it can be hard for you to explain your belief system too. I was just wondering what you meant.

What I meant was this:

Christianity, to me, is one way of knowing God. But I think there are other ways as well. To claim that Christianity (or Islam, etc.) is the only path to God, I think is ignorance.

Even if we're talking from one religious perspective: For one Christian to tell another Christian that he or she is not following the will of God, I also think is total ignorance. How could one person know what God's will is ?

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
Christianity, to me, is [b]one way of knowing God. [/B]

It's sad that's been your experience with us. No, God can't really be proven or disproven, but religion/philosophy in general has to do more with faith, I think.

I wish you knew more Christians (and people of other faiths) that use logic and reason in every other aspect of their lives. I know several religious people in careers that involve high levels on analysis and scientific method.

Often times, if you ask a Christian why they believe what they do, they will tell you a great number of them will say that they believe their hearts were touched. They've experienced things in their life that have made them believe what they do. Very few depend only on the authority of their minister to tell them what to believe. You could go the other way, also, and say that nonbelieving parents, certain schools, and the secular media can also brainwash.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
It's sad that's been your experience with us. No, God can't really be proven or disproven, but religion/philosophy in general has to do more with faith, I think.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
I wish you knew more Christians (and people of other faiths) that use logic and reason in every other aspect of their lives. I know several religious people in careers that involve high levels on analysis and scientific method.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
Often times, if you ask a Christian why they believe what they do, they will tell you a great number of them will say that they believe their hearts were touched. They've experienced things in their life that have made them believe what they do. Very few depend only on the authority of their minister to tell them what to believe. You could go the other way, also, and say that nonbelieving parents, certain schools, and the secular media can also brainwash.

Originally posted by queeq
Chuck will understand, chickenlover.

Originally posted by chickenlover98
i agree with you, i am an atheist and i definitely consider those who believe in religion foolish. it does bother me ecause to me the only lgical position is atheism.

Believing in a god or collective spirit is not foolish (and I'm not saying that's what you said.) Even if a person believes in a god or a process and ritual through which they believe they can endear themselves to that entity or influence and effect it's "descisions", it doesn't particularly imply foolishness. Religion is a very basic and somewhat essential aspect to the human condition; it's the basis for every person of religion deciding they can rationalize our own ability to seperate ourselves from nature while implying to themselves that we have the means to control the world they already don't believe themselves a part of. What is foolish is believing that as simple human beings we are so far outisde the natural order of things that we can control the lives of others around us. It's a pretty simple idea that someone who believes in ideas A, B and C, is more comfortable believing in those ideas if someone else, or everyone for that matter, believed in A, B and C too.

Originally posted by chickenlover98
i havent seen the works of "god" in motion and the world really isnt fair which a just god(if there was one mind you) wouldnt allow. i love talking about religion and am an adamant atheist. Mormons bother me the most for 1 reason. they try and convert me 😆 my shotgun loves converting mormons. 😆 😆 but the religion that bothers me just for being so public and anuisance is christianity.

You haven't seen the "works" of god, but neither have most of the people who believe in this religion or that one. Conversion is a lovely scapegoat for the animmosity felt by athists in the face of the questions presented by religious people. But it isn't that a religious person is trying to replace a belief; it's that the religious are trying to push the answer to a question you don't have. It's like trying to say "Hey, I've got the answer to your questions", when no answer was asked for or required. It isn't one belief v another; it's one belief being pushed on someone who doesn't require it.

Originally posted by chickenlover98
but what really gets me is people who have blind faith. that is something i cant stand. like for instance latin americans and blacks. no offense but i seriously doubt they comprehend exactly what that religion entails. it seriously pisses me off when someone follows something they were brought up into blindly. i wasnt raised atheist i logically came to that conclusion. my family is jewish, but that seems even less logical than christianity.

"Blind Faith" is typically a contradiction in terms.

Judaism is much more logical than Christianity. In fact, much like many eastern religions, it's had time to sharpen the blade; refine itself. That's why there aren't as many Jews running around the net posting, as there are christians and muslims and atheists. (Just to answer the question posed by another thread) While my first reaction is to agree that people who grow up believing everything they've been told is fact and managed to grow up holding on to those beliefs are usually willfully ignorant, more often than not such an instance implies that have found rationalization for their adult beliefs. It's only those who present as their arguments rationalization used by creationist museums and sunday school classes that strike me as those who are willfully ignorant.

Originally posted by chickenlover98
as long as religions dont try and convert people i usually dont get too mad

How many religions do you know that aren't told to do just that, though; as though it were an essential element to their personal salvation and just living?

Yours are the answeres to the question that only a troll would provide.

Originally posted by Devil King
Judaism is much more logical than Christianity. In fact, much like many eastern religions, it's had time to sharpen the blade; refine itself.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Um, what makes you think there's ANY way of knowing God?

I meant God as a phenomena, not God as a literal being. Different people will claim they have experienced the presence of God, but will describe it differently. Whatever this experience is, I am just calling it God for arguments sake.