If you are an atheist...

Originally posted by Devil King
Religion is a very basic and somewhat essential aspect to the human condition; it's the basis for every person of religion deciding they can rationalize our own ability to seperate ourselves from nature while implying to themselves that we have the means to control the world they already don't believe themselves a part of. What is foolish is believing that as simple human beings we are so far outisde the natural order of things that we can control the lives of others around us.

I disagree with this point here. I think it is the other way around.

Specifically:

Religion is a very basic and somewhat essential aspect to the human condition. What is foolish is the basis for every person of religion deciding they can rationalize our own ability to separate ourselves from nature while implying to themselves that we have the means to control the world they already don't believe themselves a part of. Believing that we human beings are so superior to everything around us that we even control the lives of others around us is actually much more natural because nature is saturated with social hierarchies; hierarchies that sometimes transcend more than one species. (Humans a grand example of this last point.)

nit pick: social hierarchies are almost exclusively conspecific, re: animals don't have inter-species social hierarchies

Originally posted by inimalist
nit pick: social hierarchies are almost exclusively conspecific, re: animals don't have inter-species social hierarchies

Really? You mean you have never heard of pack of wolves giving way on their kill to a bear? That is what I meant. I was referring to "pecking order" and symbiosis as a "social.

lol

its actually funny, I just finished a paper, for which I read a paper about evolution that made the claim

my assumption is that social hierarchies are different from just "pecking order" or "who is the biggest" type thing.

Originally posted by inimalist
lol

its actually funny, I just finished a paper, for which I read a paper about evolution that made the claim

my assumption is that social hierarchies are different from just "pecking order" or "who is the biggest" type thing.

Most definitely.

However, in this context (from both DK and myself) it was referential to "who controls who".

Can you think of better terms to define what I am meaning other than "social hierarchy"? If so, I welcome them. I couldn't think of ANYTHING to put into words what I was meaning and I had to settle for "social hierarchy". 🙁

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
I meant God as a phenomena, not God as a literal being. Different people will claim they have experienced the presence of God, but will describe it differently. Whatever this experience is, I am just calling it God for arguments sake.

Originally posted by Mindship
More "logical?" I would say it's more direct: Jews don't require someone to "save" them. Jews save themselves, through study and especially by good deed. Also, Judaism encourages asking questions. Except for the existence of God--which is taken as the inital given--everything else is open to question.

It sounds to me like you examples of more "directed" roughly equate themselves to more "logical".

But, they aren't my point. The followers tend to be more logical than the religion. Take Christianity as an example: christies are a religion independant of Judaism, but include Jewish religious text as the first half of the Christian holy text. This was likely done to illustrate where Christians were before the enlightenment of Jesus, but far too many Christians hold the old testament on par with the actual words of the Christ as written in the new testament. So many ignore the love and acceptance illustrated by the stories of Jesus in favor of holding on to the hate and disdain illustrated by the original covenant laid out in the OT that Jesus came to Earth to revise. So, basically, Jesus wasted his time, life, pain and sacrifice.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I disagree with this point here. I think it is the other way around.

Specifically:

Religion is a very basic and somewhat essential aspect to the human condition. What is foolish is the basis for every person of religion deciding they can rationalize our own ability to separate ourselves from nature while implying to themselves that we have the means to control the world they already don't believe themselves a part of. Believing that we human beings are so superior to everything around us that we even control the lives of others around us is actually much more natural because nature is saturated with social hierarchies; hierarchies that sometimes transcend more than one species. (Humans a grand example of this last point.)

it is unfortunate that most religions closely resemble the natural hierarchy they so strongly profess they are not a part of. Your idea only furthers the point that religions are a construct of humans, and not the "divine".

Originally posted by Devil King
It sounds to me like you examples of more "directed" roughly equate themselves to more "logical".

Originally posted by willofthewisp
I have a question for all people who do not believe any religion at all or even the possibility of God.

It seems through the media and message boards like this that atheists are much more likely to insult religious people and stereotype them as stupid and ignorant. Of course, the few atheists I have known have never acted that way, so please understand I am not grouping you together.

But my question is: does it bother you in some way when someone says they are of faith? It just seems like some atheists like to "do us a favor" by telling us how stupid we all are. I suppose that's the equivalent of a missionary going out and trying to convert, but it seems more aggressive. What is your take on people of faith? Do any faiths bother you more than others? What are your takes on Wicca and beliefs that don't really acknowledge a God per se? Just curious on what makes you tick.

Originally posted by Devil King
it is unfortunate that most religions closely resemble the natural hierarchy they so strongly profess they are not a part of. Your idea only furthers the point that religions are a construct of humans, and not the "divine".

I do not disagree. Theists, namely Christians, seem to think we are eons ahead or light years better than the organisms around us. That's the "foolish" part, imo. That belief probably comes from "created in God's image".

I believe God created man via evolution.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I believe God created man via evolution.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
This is what my wife believes.

Originally posted by Transfinitum
Does she believe that God intervened personally to create humans during evolution? If not, she is going against a dogma of the Catholic Church.

Originally posted by King Kandy
You could call it "them being out of their minds."

Only if they think they touched an old white man living in the sky.

I have my own personal beliefs about God, but I don't bring them up unless asked. What I will say is that I don't think we are separate from or below God. And at the same time, I use God and Nature as interchangeable terms.

I don't think there's anything wrong or straight up ignorant about beleiving in God. I just think the problem is when you think you know what your God's plan is for other people.

Somehow, I think every religion is a little bit correct (but mostly wrong). I believe every religion has figured something useful out about nature/god.

But I do not think it is an absolute necessity to know God. I think it's farrr more important to know yourself. Sometimes we can be a bigger mystery than anything around us.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
Only if they think they touched an old white man living in the sky.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
I have my own personal beliefs about God, but I don't bring them up unless asked. What I will say is that I don't think we are [b]separate from or below God. And at the same time, I use God and Nature as interchangeable terms.[/B]

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
I don't think there's anything wrong or straight up ignorant about beleiving in God. I just think the problem is when you think you know what your God's plan is for other people.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
Somehow, I think every religion is a little bit correct (but mostly wrong). I believe every religion has figured something useful out about nature/god.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
But I do not think it is an absolute necessity to know God. I think it's farrr more important to know yourself. Sometimes we can be a bigger mystery than anything around us.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
This is what my wife believes.

That settles it then. 😉

I believe God created man via evolution.

Originally posted by queeq
That settles it then. 😉

Originally posted by anaconda
I believe man created god/s during evolution

That would explain why god looks like us.