Originally posted by Daredevil1
IIRC Bats pressure pointed a Green Arrow and paralyzed his arm or leg or some such. IIRC also Batman once talked about countering a certain pressure-point by a method of breathing.Those are pretty impressive if they occurred, I remember seeing scans of those a long time ago.
Yeah people like Cap and DD use it on people with superhuman durability.
Originally posted by Etrigan
No, I meant accuracy. As in, who is more likely to hit a target far away with a thrown object?And I know Bruce has none. Which is part of the reason that DD wins.
Are you serious?
Please go to the Batman respect thread and check out his level of accuracy with thrown items. There should be several examples of that (one of my favorites is when he is tailing Superman and Supergirl, who are walking while dressed in civies, and some Amazon lady shoots an arrow at him. Without even looking at it, he whips out a batarang and throws it, without looking, at the oncoming arrow .....which is split by the batarang, and the batarang continues on to hit the bow and crack it in half).
Now, I am not knocking Matt's skills with thrown projectiles .....all I am saying is that the assertion that Bruce is somehow deficient because he doesn't have 'senses' is pure BS.
Bullseye, for example, doesn't have the enhanced senses of DD, yet he is an exceedingly good marksman.
As for the senses arena ....while Bruce doesn't have Matt's level of senses, he is still good enough to dodge sniper rounds (that are fired at him without him knowing) simply by feeling the slight over-pressure in air as the bullet heads towards him. Now, that is something DD does on a regular basis, but for Batman to do it (although several of the Bat-family regularly do such things, e.g. Batgirl) it shows that his senses are not exactly 'normal.'
Anyways, my only reason for being in this thread (which I believe has been tackled before, to far greater length and with attached scans) was because of that 'point' that Bruce is deficient in accuracy.
To be honest, if you had an accuracy competition, and in it you had Batman, Daredevil, Bullseye and Green Arrow (Ollie), you would NOT be able to tell any difference between their accuracy. All of them would be hitting CONSTANT bullseyes. Whether it be shuriken throwing, arrows, javelin throws, or even handguns ....all of them would basically be flawless shots, and would all hit bullseyes, and it would be impossible to tell who was better.
If you went for trickshots differences may start to appear, depending on how hard it is .....but in most cases all would SEEM equal.
The only way differences would appear would be if you made it almost obscenely difficult .....e.g. use a paperclip to hit the left eye of a bird flying past you at 35mph, when it is 50 feet up, and you have to hit it within a window of half a second.
In such a case you'd probably see Bullseye emerge as the winner.
But in all other accuracy competitions, you really would not be able to differentiate between a batarang thrown by Batman, one thrown by Daredevil, and one thrown by Bullseye. All would be 100% on target.
Originally posted by Etrigan
Exactly. You just basically proved the DD supporter's point. Batman is a bigger person than DD and can lift heavy weights, but DD has better technique due to senses so he can pick out perfect balance/angles. Did you see the scans? He wielded a 450 barbell like a staff, and then threw it about ten feet. That's pretty amazing.And does strength really count? One blow in the right place and Batman is out for the count. He's not as acrobatic as DD. And if you don't believe that, I'll put up a shitload of DD's acrobat feats as well.
Wrong, You don't what you are talking about.
1. Intelligence doesn't only apply to prep, it applies with everything Batman does.
2. Nightwing too is more agile than Batman. But that alone won't give him a victory over Batman, that gos for DD as well. And Batman is not far behind at all, he is very close.
3. DD is more adapted to a city fighting environment, so what is Gotham then, is it not a city.
4. DD's more accurate, maybe. I've never seen Batman miss with a batarang.
5. Better senses. Ok, I'll give him that. But Batman's senses work perfectly. And you're forgetting who has train longer and who knows more fighting styles. And don't come telling me that it's just my opinion that Batman has train longer. DD does not have Bruce's money or his resources to do so. Batman started when he was 8 years old. And just one more thing, DD is not peak human nor does he have more technique than Batman. And that's because Batman fighting knowledge is past DD's.
6. DD won't out lasted Batman neither. Batman Stamina is also at the peak of what is capable for a human without the SSS.
Originally posted by spetznaz
Are you serious?Please go to the Batman respect thread and check out his level of accuracy with thrown items. There should be several examples of that (one of my favorites is when he is tailing Superman and Supergirl, who are walking while dressed in civies, and some Amazon lady shoots an arrow at him. Without even looking at it, he whips out a batarang and throws it, without looking, at the oncoming arrow .....which is split by the batarang, and the batarang continues on to hit the bow and crack it in half).
Now, I am not knocking Matt's skills with thrown projectiles .....all I am saying is that the assertion that Bruce is somehow deficient because he doesn't have 'senses' is pure BS.
Bullseye, for example, doesn't have the enhanced senses of DD, yet he is an exceedingly good marksman.
As for the senses arena ....while Bruce doesn't have Matt's level of senses, he is still good enough to dodge sniper rounds (that are fired at him without him knowing) simply by feeling the slight over-pressure in air as the bullet heads towards him. Now, that is something DD does on a regular basis, but for Batman to do it (although several of the Bat-family regularly do such things, e.g. Batgirl) it shows that his senses are not exactly 'normal.'
Anyways, my only reason for being in this thread (which I believe has been tackled before, to far greater length and with attached scans) was because of that 'point' that Bruce is deficient in accuracy.
To be honest, if you had an accuracy competition, and in it you had Batman, Daredevil, Bullseye and Green Arrow (Ollie), you would NOT be able to tell any difference between their accuracy. All of them would be hitting CONSTANT bullseyes. Whether it be shuriken throwing, arrows, javelin throws, or even handguns ....all of them would basically be flawless shots, and would all hit bullseyes, and it would be impossible to tell who was better.
If you went for trickshots differences may start to appear, depending on how hard it is .....but in most cases all would SEEM equal.
The only way differences would appear would be if you made it almost obscenely difficult .....e.g. use a paperclip to hit the left eye of a bird flying past you at 35mph, when it is 50 feet up, and you have to hit it within a window of half a second.
In such a case you'd probably see Bullseye emerge as the winner.
But in all other accuracy competitions, you really would not be able to differentiate between a batarang thrown by Batman, one thrown by Daredevil, and one thrown by Bullseye. All would be 100% on target.
To be fair Batman does not always show senses on that level and I think Bullseyes would really come out on top with accuracy.
Originally posted by Phantom Ghost
Cap and DD have put down opponents in this range class? That sounds hard to believe. Give me some examples.
Well DD has dropped Mr Hyde with one pressure point not Koed but was gasping for breath. Cap has Koed Namor underwater but he was mindcontrolled.
There are lots of examples of Cap hurting bricks but not Koing them eg beating up Mr Hyde so badly he was on one knee and he was class 50 then.
Originally posted by spetznaz
Are you serious?Please go to the Batman respect thread and check out his level of accuracy with thrown items. There should be several examples of that (one of my favorites is when he is tailing Superman and Supergirl, who are walking while dressed in civies, and some Amazon lady shoots an arrow at him. Without even looking at it, he whips out a batarang and throws it, without looking, at the oncoming arrow .....which is split by the batarang, and the batarang continues on to hit the bow and crack it in half).
Now, I am not knocking Matt's skills with thrown projectiles .....all I am saying is that the assertion that Bruce is somehow deficient because he doesn't have 'senses' is pure BS.
Bullseye, for example, doesn't have the enhanced senses of DD, yet he is an exceedingly good marksman.
As for the senses arena ....while Bruce doesn't have Matt's level of senses, he is still good enough to dodge sniper rounds (that are fired at him without him knowing) simply by feeling the slight over-pressure in air as the bullet heads towards him. Now, that is something DD does on a regular basis, but for Batman to do it (although several of the Bat-family regularly do such things, e.g. Batgirl) it shows that his senses are not exactly 'normal.'
Anyways, my only reason for being in this thread (which I believe has been tackled before, to far greater length and with attached scans) was because of that 'point' that Bruce is deficient in accuracy.
To be honest, if you had an accuracy competition, and in it you had Batman, Daredevil, Bullseye and Green Arrow (Ollie), you would NOT be able to tell any difference between their accuracy. All of them would be hitting CONSTANT bullseyes. Whether it be shuriken throwing, arrows, javelin throws, or even handguns ....all of them would basically be flawless shots, and would all hit bullseyes, and it would be impossible to tell who was better.
If you went for trickshots differences may start to appear, depending on how hard it is .....but in most cases all would SEEM equal.
The only way differences would appear would be if you made it almost obscenely difficult .....e.g. use a paperclip to hit the left eye of a bird flying past you at 35mph, when it is 50 feet up, and you have to hit it within a window of half a second.
In such a case you'd probably see Bullseye emerge as the winner.
But in all other accuracy competitions, you really would not be able to differentiate between a batarang thrown by Batman, one thrown by Daredevil, and one thrown by Bullseye. All would be 100% on target.
I agree
Well DD has dropped Mr Hyde with one pressure point not Koed but was gasping for breath.
I'm aware of this. I'd say Batman taking out Grundy twice matches it.
Cap has Koed Namor underwater but he was mindcontrolled.
That sounds like bad writing. But then again Batman beating Aquaman (given his durability) shouldn't happen either.
There are lots of examples of Cap hurting bricks but not Koing them eg beating up Mr Hyde so badly he was on one knee and he was class 50 then.
Batman has his fair share as well. I think all elite fighters in comics do.
Originally posted by Phantom Ghost
I'm aware of this. I'd say Batman taking out Grundy twice matches it.
Yes but the problem is that apparently Solomon Grundy incaranations vary in power.
Originally posted by Phantom Ghost
That sounds like bad writing. But then again Batman beating Aquaman (given his durability) shouldn't happen either.
Yeah how about:
Stunning Professor Hulk for 1 second
Hitting Savage Hulk hard enough to let go of him
Winding The Executioneer and putting him on his back who is class 60 and more durable than average Asagardians.
Briefly stunning Namor with a kick and making him land on hic back
etc etc etc.
Originally posted by Phantom GhostBatman has his fair share as well. I think all elite fighters in comics do.
Captain America has LOADS.
P.S. I have a felling those examples of Batman beating Aquaman and Solmon involved his utlility belt.
Yes but the problem is that apparently Solomon Grundy incaranations vary in power.
Hyde's doesn't? I could've sworn he's up and down as well.
Yeah how about :Stunning Professor Hulk for 1 second
Hitting Savage Hulk hard enough to let go of him
Winding The Executioneer and putting him on his back who is class 60 and more durable than average Asagardians.
Briefly stunning Namor with a kick and making him land on hic back
etc etc etc.Captain America has LOADS.
Those are great and all but we're talking about Batman vs DD. You can't use Cap's feats for Matt. Different debate all together my friend.
P.S. I have a felling those examples of Batman beating Aquaman and Solmon involved his utlility belt.
Against Grundy tear gas was used when Grodd (in control of Grundy) attempted to look under Bruce's cowl other then that he used pressure points to KO him once they were left vulnerable. The other time was in Dark Victory where Batman choked him with a rope and punched him into unconsciousness.
Against Aquaman it was a pure hth contest with Batman looking to be the superior.
Originally posted by thadarknite84
He does not train like an normal guy. If that was the case he would not be man he is today. Batman has nowhere near normal strength. And he is not just good at martial arts, he's a master.There is a lot more to lifting than just raw power. You also need technique. Someone who's smaller and has technique can lift more than someone who is much bigger without any technique. I've seen it many times. I lift weights myself. So I know what I'm talking about. And don't tell me that it's BS, tell DC Comics that.
Anyone who benches 600lbs + is using technique not just raw power. But no one who weighs 210lbs has ever lifted any where near this amount no matter how good their technique. Ed Coan would be the closest and he weighs in at 240lbs. So DC having bats at peak human strength and the flexibility to be a top martial artist and a multi billionaire entrpreneur and a superhero pushes him into the bullsh!t category. I am all for a willing suspension of disbelief on characters like Superman, but Batman is categorically a normal human
Originally posted by severance
Anyone who benches 600lbs + is using technique not just raw power. But no one who weighs 210lbs has ever lifted any where near this amount no matter how good their technique. Ed Coan would be the closest and he weighs in at 240lbs. So DC having bats at peak human strength and the flexibility to be a top martial artist and a multi billionaire entrpreneur and a superhero pushes him into the bullsh!t category. I am all for a willing suspension of disbelief on characters like Superman, but Batman is categorically a normal human
He is not a "normal" human by any means of the word. You don't seem to understand Batman for one, because if you did, you wouldn't be talking nonsense. Who cares how much you think that it is BS. You can't change or do anything about that. And your opinion is irrelevant. You didn't crate Batman, Bob Kane did. So why should I care that you think it's BS. It is a fact that he is peak human so get over it. And don't complain to me, tell that to DC.