Daredevil v.s. Batman

Originally posted by brainchild81
Well you're easily fooled. I try not to let who I like more sway my opinion of who'd win in a scrap. Bats or NW are great, but they are humans. 'Stroke ain't. Bats or NW should be able to do just enough to piss DS off & make him do this.

Please post the ENTIRE fight next time inside of a few pages (It's amazing how some people keep doing this):

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Deathstroke #7
1. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Deathstroke07page019.jpg
2. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Deathstroke07page020.jpg
3. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Deathstroke07page021.jpg
4. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Deathstroke07page022.jpg
5. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Deathstroke07page023.jpg
6. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Deathstroke07page024.jpg

This is what happened after Slade's battle with Batman:

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Ummm..lulz? Considering you said DS owned Batman and you even admitted you only read ONE SCAN of the fight, why am I not surprised? You based your entire argument off of one scan you completely took out of context…bravo…simply bravo. Also note what DS says about Batman in the first few scans, and how he is so badly wounded he can’t beat a person in handcuffs.

[b]Deathstroke #8
1. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Deathstroke8byJanuspage001.jpg
2. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Deathstroke8byJanuspage002.jpg
3. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Deathstroke8byJanuspage003.jpg
4. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Deathstroke8byJanuspage005.jpg
5. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Deathstroke8byJanuspage006.jpg
6. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Deathstroke8byJanuspage007.jpg

Clearly Deathstroke didn't outright own Batman at all in that battle since it only took 4 hard blows on Bruce's part to seriously hurt Slade. No other elite fighter has ever done this well against Slade in a hth contest thus the reason why Slade gives Batman more credit then has any other person he's fought.

You're correct that Slade is Batman's superior in hth combat but its only because his physical enhancements in addition to being an experienced and cunning battle tactican on the same level as Bruce as they've been compared by others. This is not even mentioning how Batman KOed Slade with a surprise attack or knocked him out with his own rifle after wrestling him in their other fight. Also, notice how Slade attempted to use a weapon against Bruce but was disarmed of it as Batman opted not to use his weaponry for this battle. Which tells me that if Bruce has used his weaponry that's a very good chance he would've won more often then not.

Originally posted by brainchild81
They beat him for storyteling purposes, not 'cuz they should. Batman has a huge jobber aura.

Are you kidding me? Deathstroke's aura is pretty much better then Bruce's when it comes to elite fighters. Please stop using this jobber aura excuse since Batman has lost to Slade on 2 seperate occassions. NW btw has never outright defeated Slade but he has gotten the better of him in melee combat once and stalemated him another time. Which proves my point even moreso that Bruce can defeat Slade at least 4/10 times in hth combat.

Originally posted by brainchild81
If DS was human they'd beat him, or if he was an incompetant meta. DS is a meta & he's got the skills to pay the bills. Go to the DS respect thread & then tell me that it makes any real sense for him to have such problems w/Bats or NW. I think there's even a scrap when Slade asks Batman "Why am I fighting you like we're equals?". DS should own ANY human in a fistfight. He'd even hand Cap his @ss.

This comfirms it for me that you're definitely biased. So basically you're ignoring evidence just to support your arguement here instead of giving characters there fair due... that's very fair 😉

I'm not understanding why you posted a Batman vs Deathstroke fight btw since this is Batman vs DD. If you want to debate me on Batman vs Deathstroke then go find the thread and we can continue there.

Captain America btw would give Slade even tougher time then Bruce would as they'd likely stalemate more often then not (being pretty equal in physical ability) since he is more skilled then Slade. But that's a debate for another thread that I don't want to get into right now.

Wait one minute, you're assuming thats standard armour? Isnt that prep? Werent these OMACS fighting really powerful metas?

Batman usually wears his body armor all the time. It's been this way since No Man's Land.

Daredevil is more honed to the city environment and more acrobatic because of this, giving him more balance and skill.

What makes you thinks this?

Batman is probably stronger by a very small margin, but I fail to see how it will help if Daredevil is all over him with nerve strikes, drop kicks.

Except for the fact that Batman is really skilled at using nerves strikes and has his bat kicks 😎

Sure, Bats is acrobatic too, but to be honest I only really see him being very acrobatic with use of grappling lines etc, which he doesn't have.

Batman uses his grapnel gun because its easier and faster for him to get around. He's very acrobatic without it although not on NW or DD's level.

He can work out that DD has heightened senses, but without sonic bombs or anything, there isn't much he can do about that. DD can just keep hitting him in all the weak points that he senses, for the win. DD can also sense when Batman is about to hit due to heartbeat patterns.

Not much he could do about his heightend senses you mean? I don't think it will matter since we've seen elite martial artists including the likes of Punisher and Bullseye (sometimes) battle Matt to stalemates despite his super senses. It's his hyper senses as a matter of fact that put him on an equal footing with Bruce IMO as I've said plenty of times before. Without them, Matt isn't as formidable of a fighter as he normally is as stories have shown.

Originally posted by Phantom Ghost

Except for the fact that Batman is really skilled at using nerves strikes and has his bat kicks 😎

DDs better hell hes even used his senses to smash a diamond Absorbing man.

DDs better hell hes even used his senses to smash a diamond Absorbing man.

No, he's really not. Matt uses pressure points more commonly then Bruce but he's not better that them at best they're equals here too. The fight you're talking about has nothing to do with how well he does against other elite fighters. Although it was certainly impressive. Batman would've sooner used his wits against Absorbing Man to take him out.

Originally posted by thadarknite84
You can't apply our world's rules and boundaries with comics. Just like in cartoons, a man or a duck could get crushed by a huge rock and not get killed.

No real world rules apply at street level - people get shot and they die. This isn't Wylie Coyote and road runner

Anyway not relevant to the argument of who would win and I just can't see how Bats gets a majority. Having super senses gives DD too much of an advantage. Differentials in strength will not make up for this, neither will knowing 127 different martial arts. (Can't see how knowing so many forms of ma helps)

Anyway not relevant to the argument of who would win and I just can't see how Bats gets a majority. Having super senses gives DD too much of an advantage. Differentials in strength will not make up for this, neither will knowing 127 different martial arts. (Can't see how knowing so many forms of ma helps)

I keep saying but how has that stopped other elite martial artists from stalemating DD?

Originally posted by Phantom Ghost
I keep saying but how has that stopped other elite martial artists from stalemating DD?

look here physically these two are pretty equal fighting experience and intellect wise bats has DD by the balls DD may have radar but batsy is smart enuf to get around and potentially use that against DD

Originally posted by Mindset
Who did?

Iron Fist, Taskmaster, Punisher, and Bullseye. Although Punisher and Bullseye aren't as commonly shown to be on Matt's level.

Originally posted by Phantom Ghost
What makes you thinks this?

Senses. Make his balance perfect, and accuracy with acrobatic stunts.

Originally posted by Phantom Ghost Except for the fact that Batman is really skilled at using nerves strikes and has his bat kicks 😎

But is he better than DD at fighting skills in this sense? No, they're about equal, but DD's senses give him an edge.

Originally posted by Phantom Ghost Batman uses his grapnel gun because its easier and faster for him to get around. He's very acrobatic without it although not on NW or DD's level.

Exactly.

Originally posted by Phantom Ghost Not much he could do about his heightend senses you mean? I don't think it will matter since we've seen elite martial artists including the likes of Punisher and Bullseye (sometimes) battle Matt to stalemates despite his super senses. It's his hyper senses as a matter of fact that put him on an equal footing with Bruce IMO as I've said plenty of times before. Without them, Matt isn't as formidable of a fighter as he normally is as stories have shown.

With Punisher, they usually hold back against each other, therfore they stalemate. Whenever they don't, DD kicks the crap out of Frank. With Bullseye, the only time he's beaten DD I can think of is when he shot him first, admitting that he was cheating.

And I think his senses definitely make it easier for him to fight, yeah. But Bruce, without any gadgets or doohickeys, won't be fast enough to subdue Daredevil. He's a great martial artist, sure, but Daredevil has the edge in a city environment with senses.

Senses. Make his balance perfect, and accuracy with acrobatic stunts.

Between Batman and DD, I think Batman would have a better knowledge of the city like he does Gotham and would be able to use the environment to his advantage better. However, as you said Matt's senses would make up for things putting them on an equal level most of the time.

But is he better than DD at fighting skills in this sense? No, they're about equal, but DD's senses give him an edge.

Yes, they're equal when it comes to using nerve strikes but when it comes to natural skill (ignoring Matt's hyper senses) I put Bruce ahead of Matt. It's those senses that enable Matt to be on Bruce's level and fight evenly with other elite martial artists.

Exactly.

So you're saying because DD is more agile that would make a difference? How so? Batman still has superior endurance and is a smarter fighter. Not only that but given his experience with NW having trained him, DD's agility would be nothing that Bruce couldn't and hasn't already overcome.

With Punisher, they usually hold back against each other, therfore they stalemate. Whenever they don't, DD kicks the crap out of Frank.

Admittedly, Matt usually can take down Castle pretty quickly. However, this hasn't stopped Castle from doing very well against Matt on more then one occassion in hth combat. Once when Frank was in a weakened condition no less. But still on average Matt wins more often then not.

With Bullseye, the only time he's beaten DD I can think of is when he shot him first, admitting that he was cheating.

He's defeated DD before by using his environment to his advantage. That goes back to what I said about Batman having better battle savvy.

And I think his senses definitely make it easier for him to fight, yeah. But Bruce, without any gadgets or doohickeys, won't be fast enough to subdue Daredevil. He's a great martial artist, sure, but Daredevil has the edge in a city environment with senses.

Disagree. Again, we've seen elite martial artists do very well against Matt and in case you don't know Bruce has very fast reflexes on his own. Nightwing couldn't land a fair punch on Bruce who's pretty much DD's equal in agility. Also, we've seen Batman stalemate and defeat Zeiss a martial artist who copied Batman's fighting data, had enhanced reflexes, and could view the world in slow motion enabling him to read moves. I seriously doubt that Bruce would have a hard time hitting Daredevil or vice versa. It's really a toss up here.

Originally posted by Phantom Ghost
Bullseye's defeated DD before by using his environment to his advantage. That goes back to what I said about Batman having better battle savvy.

When was this?

When was this?

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/bullseyevdd170-1.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/bullseyevdd170-2.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/bullseyevdd170-3.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/bullseyevdd170-4.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/bullseyevdd170-5.jpg

Originally posted by Etrigan
Senses. Make his balance perfect, and accuracy with acrobatic stunts.

But is he better than DD at fighting skills in this sense? No, they're about equal, but DD's senses give him an edge.

Exactly.

With Punisher, they usually hold back against each other, therfore they stalemate. Whenever they don't, DD kicks the crap out of Frank. With Bullseye, the only time he's beaten DD I can think of is when he shot him first, admitting that he was cheating.

And I think his senses definitely make it easier for him to fight, yeah. But Bruce, without any gadgets or doohickeys, won't be fast enough to subdue Daredevil. He's a great martial artist, sure, but Daredevil has the edge in a city environment with senses.

DD's senses is no more an advantage than Clayface's abilities or Shiva's skill in knowing an opponent's next move before they make it. Batman always finds a way around these things. DD's senses is no different here. Sooner or later, Batman will out smart him. I'll be willing to bet that DD does not constantly plan and train as obsessively as Batman. He run throught a thousand scenarios everyday that haven't been thought of yet. I don't see why DD's senses should be something that Batman has not thought about already. And with prep or without. He is always mentally perpared for anything. You're clearly overating DD's sense and underrating Batman's brilliant mind to overcome a diffitcult task.

Just curious, is there anybody(street thru low mid tier) that you feel would beat Batman for the majority?

So you're saying because DD is more agile that would make a difference? How so? Batman still has superior endurance and is a smarter fighter. Not only that but given his experience with NW having trained him, DD's agility would be nothing that Bruce couldn't and hasn't already overcome.

What superior endurance feats does Bruce possess? Daredevil has some endurance feats as well like fighting 100 amped up ninjas or his battle to close to death as he pushed himself against a older version of Ultron and in the death realm ect etc. I know Bruce has his own specific high endurance feats but why are his more superior?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Just curious, is there anybody(street thru low mid tier) that you feel would beat Batman for the majority?

Yes I do, depending on the situation, and who he is up against. DD could win, just not the majority to me. I see Batman as someone who trains very hard to not become a victim of life's circumstances, by doing everything in his power and will to make up for any short comings. I don't want or try to be bias. I just think that Batman is just that dam good at what he does, that's all.

I'm sorry, I thought my question implied that I was looking for specific names.

Let's try this again, who(street thru low mid tier) do you think could beat Batman for the majority?

Originally posted by Silent Master
I'm sorry, I thought my question implied that I was looking for specific names.

Let's try this again, who(street thru low mid tier) do you think could beat Batman for the majority?

Wolverine
Deadpool
Iron Fist
Spider-Man
Captain America
Lady Shiva
Slade
Blade (maybe)
Nightwing (maybe)
Cassandra Cain (maybe)