Neo vs. Luke Skywalker

Originally posted by Robtard
The Neo/Smith fight was far more impressive than either of the Star Wars ones, from a "kick ass" standpoint. Star War is still a much better franchise though.

You realize that not every part of the Matrix is on youtube, watch the last Matrix movie.

Even the last fight scene between Neo and Smith, I dont see this incredible differential in fighting speed over Annie and Obi Wan.

Should we ignore Destinyguy, start a new thread, or what?

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
youre fighting neo with his matrix powers

This is the problem. You keep saying that this is "Matrix Neo"".

Matrix Neo can move as fast as he wants, is as strong as he wants, is immortal, with Matrix powers. Neo can beat anyone inside the Matrix as long as he's not in a place that's been programmed to empower someone else, like the train man.

I've had all I can take of Luke vs Neo, let's face, it's a retard's argument and we both invested too much time.

Proceed if you like, I'm sure someone will take it; there's no need to ignore him, he hasn't done anything wrong.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
This is the problem. You keep saying that this is "Matrix Neo"".

Matrix Neo can move as fast as he wants, is as strong as he wants, is immortal, iwith Matrix powers. Neo can beat anyone inside the Matrix as long as he's not in a place that's been programmed to empower someone else, like the train man.

Way to ruin a thread, man. 👇

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
This is the problem. You keep saying that this is "Matrix Neo"".

Matrix Neo can move as fast as he wants, is as strong as he wants, is immortal, with Matrix powers. Neo can beat anyone inside the Matrix as long as he's not in a place that's been programmed to empower someone else, like the train man.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
He's also limiting Lukes powers, saying some force powers wont work on Neo.

Way to ruin a thread, man. 👇

what kind of debate would it be is you say luke can just slice neos head of and I didnt try to argue for neo

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
This is the problem. You keep saying that this is "Matrix Neo"".

Matrix Neo can move as fast as he wants, is as strong as he wants, is immortal, with Matrix powers. Neo can beat anyone inside the Matrix as long as he's not in a place that's been programmed to empower someone else, like the train man.

thats why I boosted it to NJO luke

the starwars supporters though dont argue they give a list of abilities and assume the yshould work the same as against any other enem

but what kind of neo do yo uexpect, if you put a normal neo he is actually a pretty weak human, and everyone always tries to work around neos matrix form and kill his human self so its strictly matrix neo

honestly I can think of many good luke arguements not being used by starwars fans

Shoot.

What kind of Neo? I'd say put Neo in there and he can only use the abilities he's been shown to use in the movies.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Shoot.

What kind of Neo? I'd say put Neo in there and he can only use the abilities he's been shown to use in the movies.

ne oas if he were in the matrix, so yes all of his abilities from the matrix

Originally posted by Bardock42
Jedi's are able to do that not because their reflexes and movements are faster than lightning bolts, but because of their precog ability.

Did I say that Jedi's were faster than Lightening bolts?

Also, Smith and Neo are not nearly as fast as lightening arcing from ground to cloud. That is BS. No where in the movie do you see that.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Which doesn't help nearly as much if the thing coming at you at superspeed can easily adjust it's movement.

Nowhere in the movie do Agent Smith and Neo fight at "superspeed"...but Sidius and Luke most certianly fight much faster than even "superspeed". Luke has fought so fast before that he appeared to have 20 light sabers. No where do we see that in The Matrix.

If its speed you want, a linear trip across a major city that takes neo a couple of seconds is not very fast. Where did Neo fight at that speed

Exactly.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Even taking world bending powers (that Neo does have) out of the equation to power him down even more, I don't see anything that makes me think that Luke could keep up with his speed and reflexes in a fight.

No. Neo does not have world level "bending powers". Luke has "bending powers" far beyond Neo's. Or did you not see Neo trying his damndest in a fight against Agent Smith in Revolutions? I take back what I said about Neo's resurrection powers. It would appear that Neo can be beaten in the Matrix. It would appear that it wears him down. I guess all of that "upping" of his powers he does with his mind takes a toll on him. The exception would be when he gets up after being shot like five times in the chest in the first movie.

I don't understand how you think Neo has faster reflexes. You saw the same fights I did. Neo and Agent Smith are fighting pretty fast...but nowhere near the abilities of a level 9 Jedi Swordsmen, much less NJO Luke Skywalker.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I get your point that it is hard to determine how fast Neo really is, due to the slowing down and speeding up of the sequences. But I would say being able to fight 10 Superhuman Agents (Agents that Morpheus was afraid of) at a time gives you a pretty good picture that that guy owns. That his durability, his speed and his strength is far beyond that of Luke is also clear.

I don't see how you are missing this. If you are referring to the ROTJ Luke, yes, I give you that. IMO, ROTS Obi Wan is more than enough for 10 or more Agents.

His speed is much than NJO Luke's. We can easily quantify Neo's combat speed. Since we do not have NJO Luke's video speed, we can only go on written word. Based on the EU (cannon to the EU, of course), we have Luke moving much much faster than Revolutions Neo.

Originally posted by Bardock42
So, unless some of Luke's tricks like Stasis and such work 100% on him (and I don't know exactly how it is in the EU, but I think it's not a beat them all kinda trick (on top of it seeing that Neo's whole fighting and moving is just thoughts, not actually movement)) he wins that easily.

That is a flawed argument. Luke's feats have already been posted by another poster. Some of the feats, by themselves, allow Luke this fight with a 100% Neo.

Originally posted by Bardock42
[edit] Also, could we stop with the "In Neo's world...in Luke's world" blah blah? Because the initial post already states the requisites, no one is arguing that Neo in the real world, where he has hardly any power, wouldn't get owned by luke, batman and likely aunt may. So, lets stop constantly stating that.

No. The point is...Neo isn't anything in the real world except a really good martial artist. If you are going to throw Luke into Neo's universe, it is only fair to do a vice versa to show the contrast.

ROTJ Luke probably wouldn't stand a chance against Matrix Revolutions Neo. The introduction of NJO Luke was brought up to make it a less stupid debate. Luke doesn't really get a chance to Master his powers until AFTER ROTJ. He has minimal training. Neo, on the other hand, gets a lot of "playing time" and gets his training immediately loaded into his head. I would say that Neo is just about at his peak towards the end of Revolutions...whereas Luke takes years to reach his peak. Even then, I would assume that Luke is still learning.

Originally posted by Robtard
Then stop acting like one(it was more of a joke in regards to you, so relax fanboy).

I know. My insult was obviously stupid and only meant as humor. I hope you don't take my "I know you are but what am I insults seriously."

Originally posted by Robtard
With the exception of the first Matrix, I think the series is crap. I much prefer Star Wars, ie am a Star Wars fan. So...

You do not have to explain your fanboyism to me....but to go along.

I am a bigger fan of "The Matrix" films than I am of Star Wars....sort of. I do not own any of the Star Wars films except for the Cartoon Attack of the Clones from Cartoon Network. I would love to see another Trilogy of the Matrix films. I am sort about equal, I guess. I love Star Wars and I love "The Matrix". hmm I have seen Star Wars so many times, I don't need to buy the films.

Sometimes, during the summer, I watch all three Matrix Movies in a row. I have probably seen them each 8 times. That is ridiculously absurd for me because even the best movies I only see twice. I am a one time "watch the movie" type of person.

Originally posted by Robtard
And yes, those are indeed his powers. Being able to change the world around/reality and come back from the dead is "Godlike", so I am not sure how a Mormon like you would not get it.

If you call "flexing your mind causing vibrations in the matrix" reality manipulation, then yes. But it is in no way shown the be anything beyond that. He is not "God-Like". He is low-end superhero like.

Also, your Mormon insult was over the line. I would appreciate and apology. Please refrain from personal attacks and keep this at the humorous insult level.

Originally posted by Robtard
Okay, That's about 550mph. Jet's do 3X (plus) that speed. I've already said that Jedi's are much faster than normal humans and that Luke is probably faster than any Jedi. He still isn't that fast though.

Of course he can't FLY that fast and Neo can. However, his everyday reflexes can operate/react to speeds like that. An 8 year old boy, who was not trained in the Force, was able to operate a Pod Racer at that speed. We do not see that from Neo. Would you like to know why? Neo is just barely superhuman in his mental abilities. A one out of 2 million kind of guy. (Yes, 2 million people live in Zion.) Luke is a one out of hundreds of trillions...so of course Luke is going to have reflexes much faster than Neo. Luke is using an ability to do that that is well beyond anything Neo can muster.

Originally posted by Robtard
It proves they aren't as fast as you imagine. If they had a "0 second" reaction time because of the precog, they'd never get hit.

No, it proves that you refuse to acknowledge Neo's less than super qualities. Fanboyism FTW? Or argument for the sake of winning an argument?

And you also missed my point about using precog. What good is using precog to alter the outcome of a timeline if there are no possible moves that equate with your survival? The clones used to kill the Jedi were specifically designed to counteract the precog ability to "avoid" getting the beat down. Don't you remember that in ROTS? I am pretty sure the NJO Luke wouldn't have fallen victim eradication from even 100 clone Troopers designed to kill Jedi. That is not Fanboyism...that is a testament to have absurdly powerful NJO Luke is.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yes, I get it, Luke is the Alpha and the Omega; nothing is beyond him.

Wrong. Luke can be killed.

Originally posted by Robtard
And please stop with your "scenarios", if you power down one to make him weaker than the other, he would lose, obviously.

What, you don't like me show casing the powers of both characters? I have a lot more powers to draw from Luke than I do Neo. Luke is obviously much faster in combat than Neo. NJO Luke would win in a fight with Neo with no problem.

In fact, as I brush up on my facts from the EU, Luke seems more and more uber. Give Neo his ability to "erase"...he wouldn't stand a chance against Luke. I name specific feats that make Neo's feats look simple. The last battle between Neo and Agent Smith is well below the battles that Luke has fought. Punching holes through walls? Making large craters in the ground? "Hitting someone so hard that they literally fly several hundred feet? Child's play for Luke.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yes, Jedi are fast, I've agreed to this on multiple times. They aren't as fast as the peeps in the Matrix though, namely Neo. Can Jedi (Luke) move so fast that lighting slows to a crawl in comparison?

When does lightening slow to a crawl in the movie. Nowhere does it do that.

Originally posted by Robtard
Sure, I'll ask again... maybe I'll get an answer.

At their peak, Neo & Smith were moving/fighting so fast, lighting slowed to a crawl by comparison. Jedi can do this?

Lighting travels at 186,000 miles per sec.

yeah...I was watching the same thing you were. Nowhere is there a feat like that. Do we see Neo's fist, arms, legs, body actually traveling faster than a lightening bolt?

Don't use illogic to make a point.

Originally posted by Robtard
When you're that much faster than your oppenent, you don't need to worry about getting hit. If lighting was crawling by comparison to Neo's moves, Luke's glowstick would be going even slower.

That is unless someone wants to claim Luke can move/attack quicker than lightning? Which I'm sure the fanboys will say he can.

Failed logic again. Nowhere do they move faster than lightening or even close to the speed of lightening.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Also, your Mormon insult was over the line. I would appreciate and apology. Please refrain from personal attacks and keep this at the humorous insult level.

First of all, it was a joke, saying Neo is Godlike, because he can bring himself back from the dead [like Jesus] and saying you should have got that since you're Mormon, ie religious.

You've talked about ****ing my mother and my wife, which I took with a grain of salt. But a Mormon based joke is over the line, not to mention a non-insulting one? Go **** yourself while wearing your magic underoos, clownshoe.

Originally posted by Robtard
First of all, it was a joke, saying Neo is Godlike, because he can bring himself back from the dead [like Jesus] and saying you should have got that since you're Mormon, ie religious.

Duh. But I would appreciate it if you wouldn't use that as a base to jump off of for insults. If you asked me not to insult a specific aspect of your life, (i.e. you mentioned you stated using your daughter as an insult was over the line after I stated it it would be...) I wouldn't. If I go over the line, just tell me and I will apologize. Why is that hard?

Originally posted by Robtard
You've talked about ****ing my mother and my wife, which I took with a grain of salt. But a Mormon based joke is over the line, not to mention a non-insulting one? Go **** yourself while wearing your magic underoos, clownshoe.

Its called courtesy. You can insult me all you want and I love it and I find it very fun. You are really good at it.

But please, don't bring up my religion, mock my religion, and use my religion as a means to insult me and convince me to win a debate.

This is the internet, so you can do as you please. I can be a whiny ***** about it and hit the report button, but I think you are mature enough to not get yourself banned.

Actually, I never said using my daughter to insult me was over the line, I simply don't respond to it. Bardock42 and a few others have done it, I don't cry about it. Personally, it reflects poorly on them if anything, not on me.

It wasn't a mock, an insult or a means to win a debate. Which part of that, is hard to comprehend? Mormons believe Jesus is God and that Jesus can back from the dead. The joke is that Neo came back from the dead, therefore the "Godlike" joke in reference to the Mormon aspect. Duh.

Report away, do what you like.

Originally posted by Robtard
Actually, I never said using my daughter to insult me was over the line, I simply don't respond to it. Bardock42 and a few others have done it, I don't cry about it. Personally, it reflects poorly on them if anything, not on me.

It wasn't a mock, an insult or a means to win a debate. Which part of that, is hard to comprehend? Mormons believe Jesus is God and that Jesus can back from the dead. The joke is that Neo came back from the dead, therefore the "Godlike" joke in reference to the Mormon aspect. Duh.

Report away, do what you like.

You seem a little more civil. hmm

I said:

Originally posted by dadudemon
I was going to make perverted comment about your daughter...but I think there is a line and I don't like to cross that one....soooo....you can have this one too, Robtard.

To which you replied:

Originally posted by Robtard
Agreed though... I wouldn't go that route either. It has happened in here before.

You agreed that it was "over the line". That is that is what I was referring to. Also, you mentioned that you love your daughter more than your wife, so I can understand any of those comments going over the line for you.

You can play a word game if you like...but you know what you did, and you just compounded the situation with your insulting reply back to my request for an apology.

"I simply don't respond to it. Bardock42 and a few others have done it, I don't cry about it. Personally, it reflects poorly on them if anything, not on me."

Capiche?

Put me on ignore then.

Originally posted by Robtard
"I simply don't respond to it. Bardock42 and a few others have done it, I don't cry about it. [b]Personally, it reflects poorly on them if anything, not on me."

Capiche?[/B]

Capisce. (Basically, I understand.)

Originally posted by Robtard
Put me on ignore then.

Why?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Capisce. (Basically, I understand.)

Why?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/capiche

Then stop whining over nothing.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
honestly I can think of many good luke arguements not being used by starwars fans

If not, this thread is a joke.