OK, here are some more force powers NJO Luke has at his disposal:
Absorb Energy or Dissipate Energy: a Force power that allows the user to absorb harmful energy with minimum damage and can also be used to increase the users other abilities for a short amount of time.
Alter Image: a Force power developed by Hyobu Sulloran which allowed him to alter his own personal features, such as his height, weight, skin color, facial features, sex, voice, and body shape. These changes would stay as long as the Force-sensitive kept the power up, but would be dropped whenever the Force-user fell unconscious or simply lost concentration.
Electric Judgment: a Force technique used by Jedi such as Plo Koon, and most likely Luke Skywalker.
It showed up as yellow or green energy instead of blue or white, but otherwise it was very similar in both appearance and usage to the dark side power Force lightning. This power was both uncommon and controversial among the Jedi because of its similarity to the dark side technique and its association with anger and aggression.
Protection Bubble: a Force power, probably related to Force Protection. With this Force power, the user could create a defensive sphere around their body. It is described as a shimmering blue globe of energy. It could protect the user from a wide range of attacks, deflect laser blasts, and even inflict certain amounts of damage upon contact with the enemy. Protection bubbles can also be used offensively. Should the user surround the attacker in a Protection bubble, it is possible the attacker will become a victim of their own attack, having been trapped within its destructive radius.
Force Barrier or Force (war) shield: both an offensive and defensive force power, related to but weaker than a Protection Bubble. Defensively this power created a barrier or wall around the intended target, absorbing a wide variety of physical or energy based attacks the target may have encountered. Offensively this power created the same barrier around an assailant, effectively preventing them from commencing an attack.
Force Blinding: a light side Force power. Upon use, what appears as a blinding flash of energy emanated from a user's hand, overloading the target's vision and causing temporary blindness. A powerful tool of the light side, a Jedi could obfuscate an opponent's sight, making it difficult for the adversary to spot and attack the Jedi (or anyone else, for that matter).
Force Burst: a Force power that could be used by a Jedi or Sith. The strength of the Burst depended on the amount of time and energy put into it. A Burst's size and intensity could range anywhere from huge and combustible, to small, but relatively deadly. It was usually semi-transparent with a blue or green hue, where as the Sith variant had a reddish shade. The sphere of Force energy sought out it's intended target with the utmost accuracy and speed.
Force Reflex: a Force power that allowed the user to effectively slow the world around them, heightening their reflexes and perceptions.
Remain Conscious: a Control-based Force ability which allowed a force-user to fight off damage effects that would knock out a normal individual.
Kinetite: a sphere of restrained kinetic energy which could be thrown at an enemy. The ball was fist-sized and could batter down most obstacles in its path.
Force Cloak: also known as Force Camouflage, was, unsurprisingly, a rarely seen Force ability.
Force Slow: This power clouded the target's mind, causing them to slow down both mentally and physically.
Force Stun: a light side power that could temporarily deaden the senses and perceptions of a targeted enemy. It was often used when a Jedi faced a large number of opponents or if they wished to disable an enemy long enough to flee from or apprehend them.
Force Subjugate: a Force power that enabled the user to inflict damage upon the mind of an opponent. The infliction was able to act as a distraction, or to rid the opponent of concentration for a short period of time. Some used this power to calm, or even enrage creatures with a low amount of will power.
Telekinesis: abbreviated TK, a neutral ability that most Jedi had. With it, they could lift objects according to their concentration and move them, hovering the items in any direction. This ability was the base for Force Pull, Force Throw and Force Push, as well as telekinetic lightsaber combat techniques such as Saber Throw. It could be disputed that these are all the same power applied to different means.
Malacia: a Jedi technique that used the Force to induce a powerful dizziness and nausea in enemies.
Mind tricks: a spectrum of Force powers which influenced the thoughts of sentient creatures, most commonly used to coerce into agreement by suggestion through voice manipulation, or to cause one to reveal information. This allowed its practitioners to resolve matters in a non-violent way. It could also be used to appeal to a sensory impression for distraction or cause friendly fire among enemies.
Precognition: a universal Force power. The ability of foresight was perhaps universal to the Jedi or Force sensitive and was manifested in the form of Force Visions of future events, or helped the Jedi predict his opponent's movements. Carnor Jax trained in the art.
Battle Precognition: a variant of precognition that allowed one to sense the flows of the Force and anticipate an opponent's moves, increasing reaction time in combat.
Force protection: a light side Force power. This ability would make the bearer invulnerable to a wide range of attacks until it wore off, either through time, or if the user was fatigued.
Force Drain: refers to a spectrum of offensive Force powers, tied to the same concept, which used the dark side of the Force to tap into the strengths of an organic target. Mastery of each technique could scale the area of effect, sometimes dramatically, or exhaust the victims almost instantaneously.
And these are only SOME of the powers he would have access to.
Originally posted by dadudemon
1. I disagree. Even IF Neo could moved as fast as you would like him to, he still does not have the reflexes to control himself under that speed. He is NOT the Flash. He can fly really damn fast...yes...but he has NOT shown to be able to fight fast like a DragonBall Z character. Luke has more than shown his ability to react to things as fast or faster than bullets...blaster bolt deflection. Not ONLY can he react fast enough to deflect the blaster bolt, he can also react fast enough and dexterously enough to reflect the bolt right back to the person who fired it.2. I agree. But Neo's abilities are tied to the Matrix. Put Neo into Luke's universe and he only has the fighting skills the computer loaded into his brain. Did you miss this point earlier?
Stop being an illogical subjective fanboy. 😆 (P.S. yeah...I'm not serious about that last comment. I'm mocking you betch.)
Jedi's are able to do that not because their reflexes and movements are faster than lightning bolts, but because of their precog ability. Which doesn't help nearly as much if the thing coming at you at superspeed can easily adjust it's movement. Even taking world bending powers (that Neo does have) out of the equation to power him down even more, I don't see anything that makes me think that Luke could keep up with his speed and reflexes in a fight. I get your point that it is hard to determine how fast Neo really is, due to the slowing down and speeding up of the sequences. But I would say being able to fight 10 Superhuman Agents (Agents that Morpheus was afraid of) at a time gives you a pretty good picture that that guy owns. That his durability, his speed and his strength is far beyond that of Luke is also clear.
So, unless some of Luke's tricks like Stasis and such work 100% on him (and I don't know exactly how it is in the EU, but I think it's not a beat them all kinda trick (on top of it seeing that Neo's whole fighting and moving is just thoughts, not actually movement)) he wins that easily.
[edit] Also, could we stop with the "In Neo's world...in Luke's world" blah blah? Because the initial post already states the requisites, no one is arguing that Neo in the real world, where he has hardly any power, wouldn't get owned by luke, batman and likely aunt may. So, lets stop constantly stating that.
Originally posted by Bardock42Aunt May pwns Neo, hits him with a rolling pin.
Jedi's are able to do that not because their reflexes and movements are faster than lightning bolts, but because of their precog ability. Which doesn't help nearly as much if the thing coming at you at superspeed can easily adjust it's movement. Even taking world bending powers (that Neo does have) out of the equation to power him down even more, I don't see anything that makes me think that Luke could keep up with his speed and reflexes in a fight. I get your point that it is hard to determine how fast Neo really is, due to the slowing down and speeding up of the sequences. But I would say being able to fight 10 Superhuman Agents (Agents that Morpheus was afraid of) at a time gives you a pretty good picture that that guy owns. That his durability, his speed and his strength is far beyond that of Luke is also clear.So, unless some of Luke's tricks like Stasis and such work 100% on him (and I don't know exactly how it is in the EU, but I think it's not a beat them all kinda trick (on top of it seeing that Neo's whole fighting and moving is just thoughts, not actually movement)) he wins that easily.
[edit] Also, could we stop with the "In Neo's world...in Luke's world" blah blah? Because the initial post already states the requisites, no one is arguing that Neo in the real world, where he has hardly any power, wouldn't get owned by luke, batman and likely aunt may. So, lets stop constantly stating that.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Calling me a fanboy is a an old and tired "technique" that teenagers use in the comic book forum."reality warping"? "god-like"?
And you call me a fanboy.
How many humans drive pod racers? Thanks for missing my point. Pod Racers have a top speed of around 900 Km/h. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Podracing
And that proves what? They only had so many moves to make when the blast bolts rained on them? No matter how well you can see the next 1 or 2 seconds by instinct...if there are no moves...there are no moves.
Neo's saving grace is coming back from the dead in the Matrix. That and the "Agent Smith" erasing technique are the only things he has on Luke...more on that later.
In the Matrix, Neo could have just stopped all of the blaster bolts. So why didn't Neo "warp reality" to just kill his attackers?
In Neo's world, Luke would have little chance of surviving very long. In Luke's world, Neo wouldn't have even a little chance. Surely you realize this? That right there should indicate to you that Neo's abilities are limited to just a computer simulation. Wake up(pun intended), and stop being a Matrix fanboy.
To make it fair, they would have to fight in a different universe where both got to keep their powers. The thing Neo did to Agent Smith in The Matrix is the only end all be all that I feel that Luke stands no chance against UNLESS he can dodge it. It was the thread starters idea to suggest that Luke cannot be "erased" and to use Luke's "movie powers". That setup would be horribly one sided. NJO Luke was introduced to help.
Address this point:
IF the Matrix does not exist, what are Neo's powers?
Also, who's to say that Luke, in his enlightenment and otherworldy abilities to learn extremely difficult techniques in very little time, would not also become "Matrix enlightened". Wouldn't Luke's precog ability help him the see the future? Wouldn't that ability allow him to become a "Neo" also? Luke is more talented mentally than Neo. I wouldn't go as far to say "much more" because Neo is rare among humans for his brain, however, he is not unique.
Luke is unique amoung hundreds of Trillions. Did you comprehend that? Hundreds of TRILLIONS. Luke's mind is unique among more than just one species...a universe which contains superior species to humans.
Would Neo have become "The One" if no one told him he would become "The One"? That was the point of some of the plot: causality.
Luke could rip the memories out Neo's mind and figure out how to become a "The One" as well. Neo's mind is connected to the matrix and Luke has shown abilities over complicated and powerful machines. (With no training.) So whose to say that Luke couldn't alter the matrix or cause feedback in it that could possible destroy it?
So here's the scenario.
Neo and Luke meet up in the Matrix. Luke, already having foreseen this, already knows what to do. He immediately attacks Neo's mind and rips all information he needs to, to become enlightened just like Neo. Neo, barely able to move because of how horrific the mind rip is, regains his composure and almost instantly flies right at Luke. Luke stops Neo dead in midair with his ridiculous force powers. Neo, being a very strong willed person AND having great control in the Matrix, starts to move. This causes Luke to have to strain to hold Neo still because Neo is almost Godly in his strength and ability to bend the Matrix to his will.
Then Luke uses Electric Judgment and it sends so much feedback through the matrix that it fries the Real Word Neo's brain and Neo becomes a vegetable. Or you could have Luke and Neo fighting it out Matrix Style. Luke obviously wins with his precog ability AND Neo's powers. Hell, Luke would be a better Neo with his extremely enlightened mind.
You could also mention things like his "Force Defend" and "Force Stasis". Give Neo all his powers, Luke has more than enough to handle Neo.
What reality warping does Neo do in ALL of the Matrix? Other than flying, having ridiculously good fighting skills, and some very good strength, what does Neo do that makes him god-like? It would appear he has very little control over the Matrix. You show me pressure spheres created from the punches exchanged between Agent Smith and Neo, I'll show you a Luke Skywalker that embedded himself so stationary with the force that not even the uber ridiculous black hole at the center of the universe could move him......and then there is force enlightenment. Luke was in such a state that there is no way Neo's human mind could react fast enough to even see what is happening. Why do you keep overlooking that point? Neo has a human mind. His reactions are definitely super-human...but no where near Jedi levels.
Then stop acting like one(it was more of a joke in regards to you, so relax fanboy). With the exception of the first Matrix, I think the series is crap. I much prefer Star Wars, ie am a Star Wars fan. So...
And yes, those are indeed his powers. Being able to change the world around/reality and come back from the dead is "Godlike", so I am not sure how a Mormon like you would not get it.
Okay, That's about 550mph. Jet's do 3X (plus) that speed. I've already said that Jedi's are much faster than normal humans and that Luke is probably faster than any Jedi. He still isn't that fast though.
It proves they aren't as fast as you imagine. If they had a "0 second" reaction time because of the precog, they'd never get hit.
Yes, I get it, Luke is the Alpha and the Omega; nothing is beyond him. And please stop with your "scenarios", if you power down one to make him weaker than the other, he would lose, obviously.
Originally posted by RobtardI have made it quite clear that my stance on this only changed when I found out the rules. Read back and see. REtard.
Someone who constantly changes stances shouldn't be pointing fingers, fanboy.
You keep using that against me because you CANT come up with anything else.
Heres a thought, why dont you respond to my earlier post?
Originally posted by RobtardDude, look at this vid and tell me Jedi aren't fast enough, in particular when Qui Gon Jinn says "Lets go." They move so fast they are a BLUR.I've already said that Jedi's are much faster than normal humans and that Luke is probably faster than any Jedi. He still isn't that fast though.[/i]
YouTube video
and this is QUI GON JINN and the PADAWAN OBI WAN KENOBI, Luke is SURELY MUCH faster than they are.
[b]Yes, I get it, Luke is the Alpha and the Omega; nothing is beyond him. And please stop with your "scenarios", if you power down one to make him weaker than the other, he would lose, obviously.HA!!! You dont like the scenarios because they prove how powerful Luke is, thus turning the tables. You keep denying Lukes awesome array of powers, but acknowledging Neo's. Niiiiiiiiiice. 👆
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Dude, look at this vid and tell me Jedi aren't fast enough, in particular when Qui Gon Jinn says "Lets go." They move so fast they are a BLUR.
and this is QUI GON JINN and the PADAWAN OBI WAN KENOBI, Luke is SURELY MUCH faster than they are.HA!!! You dont like the scenarios because they prove how powerful Luke is, thus turning the tables. You keep denying Lukes awesome array of powers, but acknowledging Neo's. Niiiiiiiiiice. 👆
At which time frame in the video?
HA!!! You're an idiot. Those scenarios are gimping one and making the other more powerful, which is foolish as any outcome you like can be reached. Not becuase they show one to be definitively more powerful. eg "In this scenario, Luke has no arms and is comatose, therefore Neo wins!"
P.S. I've repeatively said Luke is extrememly powerful.
Originally posted by RobtardRight at the beginning of the vid, when Qui Gon Jinn says "It's a standoff, let's go", and they evade the droidekas, they are merely a blur. 00:04
At which time frame in the video?HA!!! You're an idiot. Those scenarios are gimping one and making the other more powerful, which is foolish as any outcome you like can be reached. Not becuase they show one to be definitively more powerful. eg "In this scenario, Luke has no arms and is comatose, therefore Neo wins!"
P.S. I've repeatively said Luke is extrememly powerful.
I meant that we should be able to produce scenarios in general, lemme go back and read the one you are referring to.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Right at the beginning of the vid, when Qui Gon Jinn says "It's a standoff, let's go", and they evade the droidekas, they are merely a blur. 00:04I meant that we should be able to produce scenarios in general, lemme go back and read the one you are referring to.
Fast, yes. Like a blur? That's reaching. Also, why isn't this power used more often, specifically when they're fighting, they could take on entire armies and not get killed?
Go on.
Originally posted by RobtardDoesn't matter if it isn't used more often, what matters is it CAN be done. And yes, they are out of the corridor and down the hallway in a matter of seconds.
Fast, yes. Like a blur? That's reaching. Also, why isn't this power used more often, specifically when they're fighting, they could take on entire armies and not get killed?Go on.
Luke, being as powerful as he is in the NJO, surely can move much faster than this.
Also, as far as hand to hand fighting speed goes, look at ROTS, Annie vs. Obi Wan. They are moving so fast its hard to keep up with them, so wouldnt it make sense they fight hand to hand just as fast?
I am watching Neo vs. the Agent Smiths in one window now, while watching ROTS on my DVD player. Truth be told, the speed in which Neo and a Jedi fight are not far apart.
Before you say BULLSHIT to what I just said, watch the final fight between Obi Wan and Annie.
Originally posted by Rogue JediIf you are watching the final fight with agent smith, you might notice how they are flying around sending shockwaves with their speed of flight and their power of punches. Look at the hole in the ground after Smith pushed Neo in it.
Doesn't matter if it isn't used more often, what matters is it CAN be done. And yes, they are out of the corridor and down the hallway in a matter of seconds.Luke, being as powerful as he is in the NJO, surely can move much faster than this.
Also, as far as hand to hand fighting speed goes, look at ROTS, Annie vs. Obi Wan. They are moving so fast its hard to keep up with them, so wouldnt it make sense they fight hand to hand just as fast?
I am watching Neo vs. the Agent Smiths in one window now, while watching ROTS on my DVD player. Truth be told, the speed in which Neo and a Jedi fight are not far apart.
Before you say BULLSHIT to what I just said, watch the final fight between Obi Wan and Annie.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Doesn't matter if it isn't used more often, what matters is it CAN be done. And yes, they are out of the corridor and down the hallway in a matter of seconds.Luke, being as powerful as he is in the NJO, surely can move much faster than this.
Also, as far as hand to hand fighting speed goes, look at ROTS, Annie vs. Obi Wan. They are moving so fast its hard to keep up with them, so wouldnt it make sense they fight hand to hand just as fast?
I am watching Neo vs. the Agent Smiths in one window now, while watching ROTS on my DVD player. Truth be told, the speed in which Neo and a Jedi fight are not far apart.
Before you say BULLSHIT to what I just said, watch the final fight between Obi Wan and Annie.
Yes, Jedi are fast, I've agreed to this on multiple times. They aren't as fast as the peeps in the Matrix though, namely Neo. Can Jedi (Luke) move so fast that lighting slows to a crawl in comparison?
Originally posted by Bardock42actually I was watching the fight versus several Smiths in part two, but I know what you are talking about.
If you are watching the final fight with agent smith, you might notice how they are flying around sending shockwaves with their speed of flight and their power of punches. Look at the hole in the ground after Smith pushed Neo in it.
Yes, IF Luke were to be hit by Neo like that, he would be killed, but the fact remains that you guys are totally ignoring how fast Luke is. Not near as fast as Neo, no doubt there (when Neo is flying around and shit). BUT....hand to hand combat? you think Neo is that much faster in hand to hand combat? The final fight between Annie and Obi Wan shows the Jedi fighting just as fast with sabers and Neo and Smith do hand to hand. Watch it again, and again, eventually you will see.
And Luke, with his speed and precog, could easily be well out of the way by the time Neo reaches him, IF Luke allows Neo to take flight. REMEMBER....All of Lukes powers work against Neo. Precog AND telekinesis, not to mention all the others I mentioned.
Originally posted by Robtardso, you've watched the fight between Annie and Obi Wan in ROTS, not to mention Yoda versus Palpy, right?
Yes, Jedi are fast, I've agreed to this on multiple times. They aren't as fast as the peeps in the Matrix though, namely Neo. Can Jedi (Luke) move so fast that lighting slows to a crawl in comparison?
And you have watched Neo fighting several Smiths in Reloaded, right?
And you still disagree that the Jedi are moving just as fast as Neo?
Originally posted by Robtard
[B]Fast, yes. Like a blur? That's reaching. Also, why isn't this power used more often, specifically when they're fighting, they could take on entire armies and not get killed?
When Luke was fighting DE Palps they were moving so fast that Leia, who at this point in time was force trained, could not even see their movements. You have to be moving pretty fast for a force trained being to not even be able to see you move.
Mace Windu fought an entire army of droids and beat them... without his lightsaber. He used his fists and his shatterpoint ability.
Luke was moving his one lightsaber so fast in his fight with I think Shimrra that to the on-lookers (Other Jedi.), he appeared to be wielding twenty lightsabers at once.
Again you would have to be moving incredibly fast for Jedi, and not just some random Jedi, but I believe the solo twins, who are both extremely powerful, to see your one lightsaber as nothing more then twenty blurs.
While Neo has a very fast moving speed. His actual attack speed is barely above human, as we saw from his final fight against Smith. They can both fly extremely quickly but once they start fighting they are not moving that fast. They're advantages lie in the fact that they are extremely strong and extrmely durable. However for how durable they are, they can still die from bullets. So a lightsaber an turn them into mince meat.
Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk👆 the power of knowledge. 👆
When Luke was fighting DE Palps they were moving so fast that Leia, who at this point in time was force trained, could not even see their movements. You have to be moving pretty fast for a force trained being to not even be able to see you move.Mace Windu fought an entire army of droids and beat them... without his lightsaber. He used his fists and his shatterpoint ability.
Luke was moving his one lightsaber so fast in his fight with I think Shimrra that to the on-lookers (Other Jedi.), he appeared to be wielding twenty lightsabers at once.
Again you would have to be moving incredibly fast for Jedi, and not just some random Jedi, but I believe the solo twins, who are both extremely powerful, to see your one lightsaber as nothing more then twenty blurs.
Originally posted by Rogue JediWell, I wouldn't necessarily say it is a 10/10 thing with Neo vs. NJO Luke. But I still think it would be vastly in favour of Neo.
actually I was watching the fight versus several Smiths in part two, but I know what you are talking about.Yes, IF Luke were to be hit by Neo like that, he would be killed, but the fact remains that you guys are totally ignoring how fast Luke is. Not near as fast as Neo, no doubt there (when Neo is flying around and shit). BUT....hand to hand combat? you think Neo is that much faster in hand to hand combat? The final fight between Annie and Obi Wan shows the Jedi fighting just as fast with sabers and Neo and Smith do hand to hand. Watch it again, and again, eventually you will see.
And Luke, with his speed and precog, could easily be well out of the way by the time Neo reaches him, IF Luke allows Neo to take flight. REMEMBER....All of Lukes powers work against Neo. Precog AND telekinesis, not to mention all the others I mentioned.
Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
When Luke was fighting DE Palps they were moving so fast that Leia, who at this point in time was force trained, could not even see their movements. You have to be moving pretty fast for a force trained being to not even be able to see you move.Mace Windu fought an entire army of droids and beat them... without his lightsaber. He used his fists and his shatterpoint ability.
Luke was moving his one lightsaber so fast in his fight with I think Shimrra that to the on-lookers (Other Jedi.), he appeared to be wielding twenty lightsabers at once.
Again you would have to be moving incredibly fast for Jedi, and not just some random Jedi, but I believe the solo twins, who are both extremely powerful, to see your one lightsaber as nothing more then twenty blurs.
While Neo has a very fast moving speed. His actual attack speed is barely above human, as we saw from his final fight against Smith. They can both fly extremely quickly but once they start fighting they are not moving that fast. They're advantages lie in the fact that they are extremely strong and extrmely durable. However for how durable they are, they can still die from bullets. So a lightsaber an turn them into mince meat.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
👆 the power of knowledge. 👆
Sure, I'll ask again... maybe I'll get an answer.
At their peak, Neo & Smith were moving/fighting so fast, lighting slowed to a crawl by comparison. Jedi can do this?
Lighting travels at 186,000 miles per sec.