Neo vs. Luke Skywalker

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I am gonna entertain this for a bit:

Lets say Luke steps into the Matrix. Right away Neo reads his code, understands the Force, and can wield it. (I cant believe I am even saying this)

Anyway, Neo can now wield the force. You think he is going to be able to use it effectively? As effectively as Luke? Nope.

It's like if I was an accomplished F1 driver and I take you under my wing and TELL you everything there is to know about car racing. You have never been behind the wheel of an F1 car, nor have you ever been in a heated race, so despite having the required knowledge to be a good driver, you lack the neccesary EXPERIENCE to succeed.

That's not a very good example. (Gah, horrible point making/arguing skills)

Remember the scene where Morphius took Neo to that dojo, and instantly was taught how to fight? Also there was a scene where he was getting prepped and ready to get "jacked" into the Matrix and many fighting styles were automatically given to him stright to his brain so he automatically "knew" how to fight and do various other stunts? Same as when trinity was given the experience she needed to ride that bike off the truck to protect the keymaker. There's a reason there's operators in the Matrix, however in Neo's case, he wouldn't need one. A simple twitch and a fully downloadable variation of "the force" is given to him. He probably calls it, "Force for dummies Vol.1-999". So Neo, although not directly using "the force" could master it within seconds.

Originally posted by Scythe
That's not a very good example. (Gah, horrible point making/arguing skills)

Remember the scene where Morphius took Neo to that dojo, and instantly was taught how to fight? Also there was a scene where he was getting prepped and ready to get "jacked" into the Matrix and many fighting styles were automatically given to him stright to his brain so he automatically "knew" how to fight and do various other stunts? Same as when trinity was given the experience she needed to ride that bike off the truck to protect the keymaker. There's a reason there's operators in the Matrix, however in Neo's case, he wouldn't need one. A simple twitch and a fully downloadable variation of "the force" is given to him. He probably calls it, "Force for dummies Vol.1-999".

Its like you telling me HOW to play a guitar. You can tell me all you know, but until I actually play it, I wont have a clue as to what I am doing. You'll be laughing your ass off at me.

And then someone comes in with another ridiculous post and makes things even more complicated.

Scythe, he wouldn't need to "learn" the force, he wouldn't need to wield it. He controls the Matrix and everything immaterial that's part of it. So he'c vicariously control the concept of the force.

Abandon this idea of Neo "wielding" the force, he wouldn't need to.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
And then someone comes in with another ridiculous post and makes things even more complicated.

Scythe, he wouldn't need to "learn" the force, he wouldn't need to wield it. He controls the Matrix and everything immaterial that's part of it. So he'c vicariously control the concept of the force.

Abandon this idea of Neo "wielding" the force, he wouldn't need to.

-AC

Yes, that is true. However, my point is, any sort of experience can be gained.

Should he even need "the force" in this fantasy battle, oh hell no. Neo has this fight hands down.

Not even Primus or Unicron can remotely take down Neo in the Matrix. Although that would be very entertaining...

So, IF Neo can remove the force from the Matrix (big if, BTW), how long does it take him to do so? Like say a force wielder appears out of nowhere, Neo recognizes the force, decides to "remove" it from the matrix so it cannot be used against him?

Also, just because the force isn't in a certain environment, Doesnt mean a force wielder still cannot use the force, they still have it within them.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So, IF Neo can remove the force from the Matrix (big if, BTW), how long does it take him to do so? Like say a force wielder appears out of nowhere, Neo recognizes the force, decides to "remove" it from the matrix so it cannot be used against him?

Also, just because the force isn't in a certain environment, Doesnt mean a force wielder still cannot use the force, they still have it within them.

WHO is talking about removing the force? He could just control it, not let it effect him, counter it before it's used, as I have shown you with the example of how the code is used by normal humans to show what's going to happen.

And as for that last part, I really don't know how many more times it needs explaining to you. Shake the cobwebs out and listen carefully, gramps. He cannot control the programs in the Matrix. So if Neo were to neutralise his ability to use the force, he simply couldn't override it.

Hence why the best place for this fight is the real world.

-AC

Originally posted by Scythe
That's not a very good example. (Gah, horrible point making/arguing skills)

Remember the scene where Morphius took Neo to that dojo, and instantly was taught how to fight?

As I remenber the scene correctly...

Neo did not develop those skills on his own. They were program to him by Tank.

Luke on the other hand learn his skill by a Jedi master. Very different cases.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
As I remenber the scene correctly...

Neo did not develop those skills on his own. They were program to him by Tank.

Luke on the other hand learn his skill by a Jedi master. Very different cases.

Different cases but same outcome. Neo was given the experience, and it was instant, where Luke learned his in a long process. Should there be records of "the force" or anything like it, they could be plugged direcly into his brain for him to use. However, that applies to everyone else in the Matrix that isn't Neo, since he can systematically curve outcomes to his best interest.

Why are you catering to the silly people who wish to drag this further into a false area that helps them?

They're talking nonsense. You don't indulge factually incorrect jargon, you shoot it down.

-AC

Originally posted by Scythe
Different cases but same outcome. Neo was given the experience, and it was instant, where Luke learned his in a long process. Should there be records of "the force" or anything like it, they could be plugged direcly into his brain for him to use. However, that applies to everyone else in the Matrix that isn't Neo, since he can systematically curve outcomes to his best interest.

Correct! You said it! Luke learned his skills in a long process. In a way it involves a level of spiritual connection. So Neo would have to have enough Midi-chlorians in him to be capable of achieve a Jedi status.

He couldn't, he controls the Matrix, which all of this would be inside of.

He wouldn't have to train or take time to gain anything.

Learn, people, learn!

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
WHO is talking about removing the force? He could just control it, not let it effect him, counter it before it's used, as I have shown you with the example of how the code is used by normal humans to show what's going to happen.

And as for that last part, I really don't know how many more times it needs explaining to you. Shake the cobwebs out and listen carefully, gramps. He cannot control the programs in the Matrix. So if Neo were to neutralise his ability to use the force, he simply couldn't override it.

Hence why the best place for this fight is the real world.

-AC

Gramps 😆 So its back to hostility and personal attacks, I see. Now very typical.

Luke is a foreign item to the Matrix, he is beyond Neo's control. The thread starter SPECIFIED that ALL of Lukes powers work against Neo, so despite the fact they Luke is in Neos domain, he still has the ability to use the force on Neo.

Not to mention that Luke still has his lightsaber to fall back on, and you still haven't answered my question earlier on what if Luke were to behead Neo....would Neo die? Its a simple question, yes or no answer will suffice.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Correct! You said it! Luke learned his skills in a long process. In a way it involves a level of spiritual connection. So Neo would have to have enough Midi-chlorians in him to be capable of achieve a Jedi status.

Yes, that's how most good jedis have to learn it. However, in any other case, it's just not happening. Midi-chlorians have no effect in a synthetic creation like the Matrix. Their purpose would just be halted.

Given the case that Luke takes on Neo inside the Matrix, Luke, as powerful as he is, cannot stand up to a god.

In the real world, Luke would have a huge advantage, and quite possibly might win.

It's that straight forward.

Originally posted by Scythe
Yes, that's how most good jedis have to learn it. However, in any other case, it's just not happening. Midi-chlorians have no effect in a synthetic creation like the Matrix. Their purpose would just be halted.

Given the case that Luke takes on Neo inside the Matrix, Luke, as powerful as he is, cannot stand up to a god.

In the real world, Luke would have a huge advantage, and quite possibly might win.

It's that straight forward.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You mentioned earlier that if Neo so chose to, he could in fact remove the force from the Matrix, I was just following up on that one.

But that's ridiculous and impractical. Seeing as we're going with the ridiculous idea of keeping it in the Matrix, I'm trying to find balance.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Gramps 😆 So its back to hostility and personal attacks, I see. Now very typical.

If you took that seriously I'd suggest letting those curly locks down and relaxing. You've called me little man, I've called you gramps.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Luke is a foreign item to the Matrix, he is beyond Neo's control. The thread starter SPECIFIED that ALL of Lukes powers work against Neo, so despite the fact they Luke is in Neos domain, he still has the ability to use the force on Neo.

He is, his powers are not. Why would it matter to Neo if he can control the MAN or not? He can control what he'd need to fight. Luke might as well be an infant.

Precisely, and that's why this fight is stupid. Everyone is ignoring everything, and the ironic goal is to make it a fantasy fight. Ignoring shit that matters is why nobody can agree on anything.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Not to mention that Luke still has his lightsaber to fall back on, and you still haven't answered my question earlier on what if Luke were to behead Neo....would Neo die? Its a simple question, yes or no answer will suffice.

Neo wouldn't "die", technically, no (There's the no you wanted). His code would be disseminated.

That said, it wouldn't happen, because Luke wouldn't get that close.

-AC

For those of you who are choosing to ignore Lukes incredible array of powers, here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_powers

Read and learn.....

Hahaha.

Wikipedia, nice one. Really.

Who is ignoring his powers? Non-canon or otherwise? I'm simply saying they don't matter.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You did read where D Guy stated that ALL of Lukes powers work on Neo, right?

Yeah I read it, I don't think that guy understood the prowess that Neo has, nor the Matrix. Otherwise he would've started the thred like this.

"Okay, Neo Vs. Luke Skywalker, in the Matrix, Luke has all his powers but they have no effect within the Matrix, thus saying, Neo is a god and Luke is defenseless. Discuss"

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Hahaha.

Wikipedia, nice one. Really.

Who is ignoring his powers? Non-canon or otherwise? I'm simply saying they don't matter.

-AC

I bet you didnt even READ it.

What makes you think I haven't read it?

I have more reliable sources than an editable website. I have looked his powers up on Star Wars sites, I'm not saying Wiki is wrong, I'm saying it's a useless source in debate. It's not credible.

Luke's powers would be inconsequential, yep.

-AC