Neo vs. Luke Skywalker

Started by Alpha Centauri52 pages

Which is precisely why we've been arguing over many millions of things regarding the stipulations of this fight.

It's just too ridiculous.

I still find it admittedly hard to believe that it is allowed a book based, non-canon version of Luke to partake in this.

-AC

It's part of the SW universe, it's not Canon to the movies, but in this thread it is.

What forum are we in, RJ?

Just asking. Movies? Ok, so then it's not relevant. It is only here because you and other insisted on a discussion. It actually has no relevant place. I wouldn't go and post Neo in the Star Wars E.U. forum.

-AC

Movie characters, and everything that has to do with them, including novelizations.

It doesn't, because he's not a movie character.

He's a non-canon Star Wars extended universe literary character.

What movies has NJO Luke been in? Three? One? Zero?

Exactly.

-AC

Well, is it any different than starting a Hulk vs. Superman thread and saying that it is OK to talk about comic book Hulk?

I know Hulk started out as a comic character, but he has evolved into a movie character.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Well, is it any different than starting a Hulk vs. Superman thread and saying that it is OK to talk about comic book Hulk?

I know Hulk started out as a comic character, but he has evolved into a movie character.

The two are different, so no. If you're in the movie forum, you talk about movie characters. Movie comics adaptational characters are not canon, so it's even.

He isn't a "movie" character, he's a comics character who has a couple movies. Ace Ventura is a movie character.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The two are different, so no. If you're in the movie forum, you talk about movie characters. Movie comics adaptational characters are not canon, so it's even.

He isn't a "movie" character, he's a comics character who has a couple movies. Ace Ventura is a movie character.

-AC

So Hulk should never even be mentioned here in the movie forum? What about Iron Man? X Men?

If you can tell me just how you got such an extreme comment out of that post, I will give you many cookies and a shiny red ball.

I say that because I was simply correcting that he isn't a "movie" character also, he's a comic character with movie adaptations. Hancock is a movie character, for example.

I never once said movie versions of comics characters could not be debated here. It amazes me how you do that.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It doesn't, because he's not a movie character.

He's a non-canon Star Wars extended universe literary character.

What movies has NJO Luke been in? Three? One? Zero?

Exactly.

-AC

It doesn't matter what movies NJO Luke has been in. In the Star Wars continuity the New Jedi Order book series is canon, and therefore the depiction of Luke Skywalker during said book series is also canon. However, both the Neo and Luke being discussed here are or were at one time movie characters. So...this thread is fine in this forum.

And if it wasn't, there would be no place to put it. The SW vs. forum doesn't allow non-SW characters.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If you can tell me just how you got such an extreme comment out of that post, I will give you many cookies and a shiny red ball.

I say that because I was simply correcting that he isn't a "movie" character also, he's a comic character with movie adaptations. Hancock is a movie character, for example.

I never once said movie versions of comics characters could not be debated here. It amazes me how you do that.

-AC

You implied that this section is for movie characters only, yes?

Movie characters or movie versions of other characters, yes.

If they've been in a movie, then they can be discussed here. Only THAT version, though.

Originally posted by caedusrulesall
It doesn't matter what movies NJO Luke has been in. In the Star Wars continuity the New Jedi Order book series is canon, and therefore the depiction of Luke Skywalker during said book series is also canon. However, both the Neo and Luke being discussed here are or were at one time movie characters. So...this thread is fine in this forum.

And if it wasn't, there would be no place to put it. The SW vs. forum doesn't allow non-SW characters.

The books and E.U. are not canon, I thought you'd have known that as a Star Wars fan. Weird.

Either way, it's not fine is it? This is a movie Vs forum, N.J.O. is a BOOK series.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The books and E.U. are not canon, I thought you'd have known that as a Star Wars fan. Weird.

Either way, it's not fine is it? This is a movie Vs forum, N.J.O. is a BOOK series.

-AC

As a Star Wars fan I know that they are canon. Personally, if someone who knows the SW canon a lot better than you tells you they're canon, you should probably pay attention.

Although the NJO is canon, it is not on the same level of canon as the movies. The movies are the highest level of canon (G-canon, I believe), while the books are part of the next tier down. So they are canon, but simply not as much as the movies.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Movie characters or movie versions of other characters, yes.

If they've been in a movie, then they can be discussed here. Only THAT version, though.

I gotcha. 😉 ..I dont agree, but I get your point.

The books and E.U. are not canon, I thought you'd have known that as a Star Wars fan. Weird.

Either way, it's not fine is it? This is a movie Vs forum, N.J.O. is a BOOK series.

-AC

Nothing in the forum rules enforced by Impediment states that we cannot use the information you are referring to.

Originally posted by caedusrulesall
As a Star Wars fan I know that they are canon. Personally, if someone who knows the SW canon a lot better than you tells you they're canon, you should probably pay attention.

Although the NJO is canon, it is not on the same level of canon as the movies. The movies are the highest level of canon (G-canon, I believe), while the books are part of the next tier down. So they are canon, but simply not as much as the movies.

It's not canon, it's a non-canon set of stories. It's a "What might have been.", not "This is a direct representation, canonically relevant.".

There are not levels of "canon", it's canon or it's not. You are suggesting it's canon simply because it exists, that's false.

EITHER WAY, even if it WAS canon, it's a book. It has no place here.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I gotcha. 😉 ..I dont agree, but I get your point.

What don't you agree with? It's a movie Vs forum for movie characters or movie adaptations of characters. New Jedi Order Luke is a literary character in a non-canon series.

How do you disagree he has no place here? Just because?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Nothing in the forum rules enforced by Impediment states that we cannot use the information you are referring to.

If he comes in here and says "Despite the title of this forum, despite it being designated that for a purpose, you can use whatever the hell kind of incarnation you choose, movie or not.", then I'll concede the point.

That would, however, be retarded.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's not canon, it's a non-canon set of stories. It's a "What might have been.", not "This is a direct representation, canonically relevant.".

There are not levels of "canon", it's canon or it's not. You are suggesting it's canon simply because it exists, that's false.

EITHER WAY, even if it WAS canon, it's a book. It has no place here.

-AC

This should explain the concept of SW canon levels. Look at the second post by Ush.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t441813.html

What? You mean the parts where he says:

"As far as the films go, the E.U. doesn't exist.", or "As far as the E.U. goes, the MOVIES are the most important canon.", or the part in here where he called that version of Luke a travesty of fiction?

Of course, we could go back to the basic fact that we're in a movie forum and you're all desperate to use a non-canon/inferior canon incarnation that isn't even from a movie.

Which part am I lobbing you out of the thread with?

There's this too:

Originally posted by Ushgarak
A. Both Lucasfilm and George Lucas himself have made it clear that he only considers the films themselves as ˜canon", not that he uses that term. This is nothing to do with a statement of quality on the EU, it's almost certainly a creative approach so that he does not get hemmed in by anything the EU says. And indeed, he has run pretty roughshod over EU elements in making the Prequel films, from the term "Darth" to Boba Fett. Of course, George is not afraid to nick things he likes from the EU, like the name "Coruscant", but that only applies to the individual elements concerned.

B. The people in charge of the EU operate the Holocron, the attempt to build one broad continuity, and it is their rules that the films- the so-called -canon- trumps everything else in EU continuity.

Hmm. I swear he continually hammers home the fact that the movies trump the E.U. and again, we're in a movie forum.

You're splat out of it. It meaning luck.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
What? You mean the parts where he says:

"As far as the films go, the E.U. doesn't exist.", or "As far as the E.U. goes, the MOVIES are the most important canon.", or the part in here where he called that version of Luke a travesty of fiction?

Of course, we could go back to the basic fact that we're in a movie forum and you're all desperate to use a non-canon/inferior canon incarnation that isn't even from a movie.

Which part am I lobbing you out of the thread with?

-AC

The part where he states that both the movies and EU are canon, but at different levels.

Good job ignoring and hoping I didn't notice.

And for God's sake, stop doing that stupid little -AC thing at the bottom of your posts. It looks really stupid, especially since it's not part of your sig.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

What don't you agree with? It's a movie Vs forum for movie characters or movie adaptations of characters. New Jedi Order Luke is a literary character in a non-canon series.

How do you disagree he has no place here? Just because?

Because it leaves more room for discussion, and I pride myself on being open minded.

If he comes in here and says "Despite the title of this forum, despite it being designated that for a purpose, you can use whatever the hell kind of incarnation you choose, movie or not.", then I'll concede the point.

That would, however, be retarded.

-AC

He doesn't have to, because it is acceptable to do so.

Originally posted by caedusrulesall
The part where he states that both the movies and EU are canon, but at different levels.

Good job ignoring and hoping I didn't notice.

I'll quote it again:

"A. Both Lucasfilm and George Lucas himself have made it clear that he only considers the films themselves as ˜canon", not that he uses that term. This is nothing to do with a statement of quality on the EU, it's almost certainly a creative approach so that he does not get hemmed in by anything the EU says. And indeed, he has run pretty roughshod over EU elements in making the Prequel films, from the term "Darth" to Boba Fett. Of course, George is not afraid to nick things he likes from the EU, like the name "Coruscant", but that only applies to the individual elements concerned.

B. The people in charge of the EU operate the Holocron, the attempt to build one broad continuity, and it is their rules that the films- the so-called -canon- trumps everything else in EU continuity.".

What is the part you're having issues with? You're missing the point.

Not only is it non-canon, but even if it were canon, it wouldn't be relevant for two or more reasons:

1) It's a movie forum, not book.

2) Movie continuity trumps everything else.

3) Tired of whooping you.

Originally posted by caedusrulesall
And for God's sake, stop doing that stupid little -AC thing at the bottom of your posts. It looks really stupid, especially since it's not part of your sig.

Okay.

Oh...wait, nah.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Because it leaves more room for discussion, and I pride myself on being open minded.

So despite it being wrong, misplaced, irrelevant and a totally different medium than is supposed to be discussed here, it's ok to do so because you're "open-minded"?

That's the same mindset of those idiots at Oxford who let people present arguments that the holocaust didn't happen...because everyone has the right to "free speech". Sometimes you do just have to say "No, that is really stupid.". This is one of those.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
He doesn't have to, because it is acceptable to do so.

Why? It shouldn't be, this is a movie character/character adaptation Vs forum.

Not movie and book and comic.

It wouldn't make it any less wrong or stupid if he came and agreed with you. All he'd be doing is giving more reason to mess his forum up by bringing in dumb threads.

-AC