Neo vs. Luke Skywalker

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

So despite it being wrong, misplaced, irrelevant and a totally different medium than is supposed to be discussed here, it's ok to do so because you're "open-minded"?

That's the same mindset of those idiots at Oxford who let people present arguments that the holocaust didn't happen...because everyone has the right to "free speech". Sometimes you do just have to say "No, that is really stupid.". This is one of those.

Why? It shouldn't be, this is a movie character/character adaptation Vs forum.

Not movie and book and comic.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
It's only wrong in your mind, just because you think it is wrong doesn't make it wrong.

Again, see above.

Your lack of ability to counter my very reasonable and correct points speaks volumes.

Thanks.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

What is the part you're having issues with? You're missing the point.

Not only is it non-canon, but even if it were canon, it wouldn't be relevant for two or more reasons:

1) It's a movie forum, not book.

2) Movie continuity trumps everything else.

3) Tired of whooping you.
-AC [/B]

If you actually looked at a few SW sites on the Internet you'd realize that the EU is canon. If you don't know that much about Star Wars, then don't start going around blathering on and on about how your delusion is right while ignoring the tons of sources blatantly advertising the canonicity of the EU and the wrongness of your opinion.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Your lack of ability to counter my very reasonable and correct points speaks volumes.

Thanks.

-AC

Originally posted by caedusrulesall
If you actually looked at a few SW sites on the Internet you'd realize that the EU is canon. If you don't know that much about Star Wars, then don't start going around blathering on and on about how your delusion is right while ignoring the tons of sources blatantly advertising the canonicity of the EU.

Way to ignore the rest.

You were the one who linked me to the Ush post that disproves your very argument, so I'm not entirely sure if you're just angry or a fool.

It's not canon, but even if it was, it would be TRUMPED by movie continuity. Where are we? KillerMovies MOVIE VERSUS forum.

You do the math.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You are placing WAY too much faith in your "opinions." 😆

Either counter my previous points, analogies and reasoning with something more than one liners and smilies, or don't reply.

It's fact, and other than replying and saying "It's not.", you really have no counter. So either counter or allow Caedus and I to finish our discussion.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Way to ignore the rest.

You were the one who linked me to the Ush post that disproves your very argument, so I'm not entirely sure if you're just angry or a fool.

It's not canon, but even if it was, it would be TRUMPED by movie continuity. Where are we? KillerMovies MOVIE VERSUS forum.

You do the math.

-AC

It really is canon, and though it is trumped by the movie continuity, nothing in the movies counters NJO Luke's abilities, therefore NJO Luke's abilities are canon.

Oh, and if you really read it thoroughly, you'd realize that the Ush post says that while the movies are more canon, EU is still considered canon.

Originally posted by caedusrulesall
It really is canon, and though it is trumped by the movie continuity, nothing in the movies counters NJO Luke's abilities, therefore NJO Luke's abilities are canon.

Oh, and if you really read it thoroughly, you'd realize that the Ush post says that while the movies are more canon, EU is still considered canon.

How many times do I have to run it through you?

Even if they were canon, it would be IRRELEVANT. Why? Because:

1) This is a MOVIE VS forum.

2) N.J.O. is BOOK based, not movie.

3) Movie ALWAYS trumps E.U. in terms of canon.

Either way, N.J.O. Luke, going by these facts and the link you sent, has no place here, fact.

I could AGREE with him being canon if I believed it, and I'd still win the argument based on those points.

Ush is clearly regarded as one of the foremost Star Wars guys on this forum, isn't he? Almost everything he has posted has agreed with me. If you'd take this up with him, I'll go PM him and see what he has to say.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Either counter my previous points, analogies and reasoning with something more than one liners and smilies, or don't reply.

It's fact, and other than replying and saying "It's not.", you really have no counter. So either counter or allow Caedus and I to finish our discussion.

-AC

You haven't posted any facts, you have posted your opinions.

Water is wet, ice is cold, those are facts.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Counter your opinion? You want me to train you, like a monkey? I aint gonna do that, you have your opinion and I respect that, I just happen to disagree with it.

You haven't posted any facts, you have posted your opinions.

Water is wet, ice is cold, those are facts.

They're facts, RJ. It's also fact that movie continuity trumps E.U. and it's fact that this is a MOVIE Vs Forum.

It's a fact that N.J.O. Luke is not a movie character, nor does he have a movie adaptation.

These are all facts, and if they don't tell you he is not a character with a relevant place in this forum, then you're being very silly. End of, now either counter it or be quiet.

So, by this rationale, you would disagree with Ush if he came in here and said what...he has already said about N.J.O. Luke regarding canon and relevance?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
They're facts, RJ. It's also fact that movie continuity trumps E.U. and it's fact that this is a MOVIE Vs Forum.

It's a fact that N.J.O. Luke is not a movie character, nor does he have a movie adaptation.

These are all facts that tell you he is not a character with a relevant place in this forum. End of, now either counter it or be quiet.

So, by this rationale, you would disagree with Ush if he came in here and said what...he has already said about N.J.O. Luke regarding canon and relevance?

-AC

Also, this is Mattie's domain, not Ush's.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
EU Luke is an extension of the movie charater, you know this to be true, go ahead, admit it.

Also, this is Mattie's domain, not Ush's.

I know he is, but that's irrelevant. You're dodging.

Why are you dodging? Surely answer the questions.

It's a fact that movie canon trumps E.U., correct?

It's a fact that this is called the Movie Vs forum, correct?

It's a fact that N.J.O. is non-canon/inferior canon (Whatever you want, for argument's sake) to the movies, correct?

It's a fact that he is a book character, correct?

Answer those questions, please. Yes or no answers will do, as you have requested before. Unless, of course, you are scared. I'll be waiting on those answers.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I know he is, but that's irrelevant. You're dodging.

Why are you dodging? Surely answer the questions.

It's a fact that movie canon trumps E.U., correct?

It's a fact that this is called the Movie Vs forum, correct?

It's a fact that N.J.O. is non-canon/inferior canon (Whatever you want, for argument's sake) to the movies, correct?

It's a fact that he is a book character, correct?

[Answer those questions, please. Yes or no answers will do, as you have requested before. Unless, of course, you are scared. I'll be waiting on those answers.

-AC

Originally posted by Scythe
To put it nicely, you irritate, bug and make me sick.

We've told you in many different ways how Neo becomes a god toward the end of the third film, but it's liek talking to a brick wall now.

You told me my choice wasn't valid. Juswt because you didn't accept it.

Calm down, Scythe. There is no need for that kind of inflammatory talk.

Originally posted by Impediment
Calm down, Scythe. There is no need for that kind of inflammatory talk.

Yes I understand. Personal problems get in the way when it deals with RJ, I doubt I can change my entire persona.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
That depends on what you mean by trump. Supercedes? Negates?

Pick one. Supercedes and/or negates. It's my belief, based on research and the word of people like Ushgarak, who despite having issues with at times, obviously does know his shit, that it not only supercedes but does negate the E.U. if one is put against the other for credibility.

My purpose for asking this was: we're in a movie forum discussing Luke, who is a Star Wars movie character, so therefore, giving a book version this level of relevance or credibility is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yes.

Good, thanks for answering. Next question:

If that's the name of the forum, then why would a book character (Non-canon/inferior canon at best) be relevant? No movie appearances to his name.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
The New Jedi Order is an extension of the movies, one either accepts this or not. I do, you do not. That's it.

I accept it's a non-canon/inferior canon medium that exists in books, you don't accept that it doesn't have a place here. You disagree with that being a fact, so next question (And I do appreciate you answering these):

Is it (N.J.O.) a movie adaptation and/or have anything directly and canonically connecting it to the original movies by fact? The answer is no. That is a fact.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
A book character BASED on the movie character, one in the same.

Wait, so now they are one and the same? No, they are not one and the same. That is a fact. One is a hypothesised and greatly exaggerated non/inferior canonical account of a character that was rather passive in comparison, in a BOOK. This is a fact.

So now, if you can tell me where all these "Opinions" are, I'd be grateful, because to the best I can tell, all of these things are facts that point to N.J.O. Luke having nothing to do with, nor any place in, this forum.

So if you could do that for me, I would be very happy. You were quick to write off previous claims as me having too much faith in "opinions" (Those being that N.J.O. Luke factually has no relevant place here), so now you can continue showing me how they're opinion and not fact.

We've agreed it's a movie forum, movie Vs forum, so we can strike those off the "It's your opinion." list. Those are facts.

We've previously agreed N.J.O. Luke is non-canon, that's a fact. We've agreed he's from a book, not a movie, so that's a fact. Turns out not much of what I said (Any) was "opinion" was it? The closest we're gonna get to it being opinion is "Who thinks book characters with no movie life are allowed here?". I think the question is the answer.

I'm waiting to see reasons why he should be in this forum, because all you've provided is "Because Matt lets us.". I've provided factual reasons, which are factual, regardless of you saying "Nah".

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Pick one. Supercedes and/or negates. It's my belief, based on research and the word of people like Ushgarak, who despite having issues with at times, obviously does know his shit, that it not only supercedes but does negate the E.U.

My purpose for asking this was: we're in a movie forum discussing Luke, who is a Star Wars movie character, so therefore, giving a book version this level of relevance or credibility is ridiculous.

Good, thanks for answering. Next question:

If that's the name of the forum, then why would a book character (Non-canon/inferior canon at best) be relevant? No movie appearances to his name.

[b]Wait, so now they are one and the same? No, they are not one and the same. That is a fact. One is a hypothesised and greatly exaggerated non/inferior canonical account of a character that was rather passive in comparison, in a BOOK. This is a fact.

So now, if you can tell me where all these "Opinions" are, I'd be grateful, because to the best I can tell, all of these things are facts that point to N.J.O. Luke having nothing to do with, nor any place in, this forum.

So if you could do that for me, I would be very happy. You were quick to write off previous claims as me having too much faith in "opinions" (Those being that N.J.O. Luke factually has no relevant place here), so now you can continue showing me how they're opinion and not fact.

We've agreed it's a movie forum, movie Vs forum, so we can strike those off the "It's your opinion." list. Those are facts.

We've previously agreed N.J.O. Luke is non-canon, that's a fact. We've agreed he's from a book, not a movie, so that's a fact.

I'm waiting to see reasons why he should be in this forum, because all you've provided is "Because Matt lets us.".

-AC

There's movie versions of Hulk, Blade and Superman, all completely different than their comic book counterparts, mhmm.

Originally posted by Scythe
There's movie versions of Hulk, Blade and Superman, all completely different than their comic book counterparts, mhmm.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
It's ridiculous in your eyes and a few others, not ridiculous to most that post here, that's just how it is, man.

I wonder if, one day, you'll enter and exit a debate having not dodged ever.

Well, no, it's wrong isn't it? Book character...movie forum. Movies in question trump books...hmm.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Luke HAS movie appearances, episodes 4-6. The EU Luke is an extension of that character.

Extention? Exaggeration and hypothetical depiction...with no movie appearances.

Is that wrong? Is N.J.O. Luke in a movie I missed? Does regular Luke depict N.J.O. powers that I've missed? No, no, no.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
The mere fact that the same characters are in the books connect them to the movies.

Not in the slightest. They're name shared only, really. When put against the movies, they are trumped and negated, because that's the ultimate canon. It's an exaggeration and in many cases, pointless depiction of Luke. This isn't just coming from me, it's been agreed upon in this thread by a few hardcore Star Wars fans.

It's not movie, it's not relevant here.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
If NJO Luke has no place in this forum, if only movie characters belong here, then when someone discusses Hulk, Blade, etc etc etc, then they can't talk about the comic books? This is how you are coming off. Doesn't matter if they were comic characters first, mind you.

How many movie adaptations has Hulk received? Blade?

Two for Hulk, serious ones anyway. Three for Blade.

How many has N.J.O. Luke had? Hmm? How many? Two, three or zero? Zero.

Even in the event that a character from a comic or book has a movie adaptation, you judge the adaptation on its own merit. Not "Comic Hulk did this, so movie Hulk could.". Even if N.J.O. Luke had a movie adaptation, it's not even to say it would be the same, or as powerful, as his book counterpart.

My entire point is, since I have the sinking feeling I'll have to explain this again, book characters do not have a place here. This is for movie characters or movie ADAPTATIONS of characters elsewhere. When N.J.O. Luke gets in a movie, we'll chat.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So if someone is talking about Blade versus Wolverine, their abilities in the comics can't be discussed? That kinda limits the discussion.

Then you discuss movie Wolverine Vs movie Blade. If there's not much to go on, then don't make the thread. Don't then bastardise and ignore the purpose of this forum for the sake of longevity, because it's dumb.

This isn't the chaos theory, RJ.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I wonder if, one day, you'll enter and exit a debate having not dodged ever.

Well, no, it's wrong isn't it? Book character...movie forum. Movies in question trump books...hmm.

Extention? Exaggeration and hypothetical depiction...with no movie appearances.

Is that wrong? Is N.J.O. Luke in a movie I missed? Does regular Luke depict N.J.O. powers that I've missed? No, no, no.

Not in the slightest. They're name shared only, really. When put against the movies, they are trumped and negated, because that's the ultimate canon. It's an exaggeration and in many cases, pointless depiction of Luke. This isn't just coming from me, it's been agreed upon in this thread by a few hardcore Star Wars fans.

It's not movie, it's not relevant here.

How many movie adaptations has Hulk received? Blade?

Two for Hulk, serious ones anyway. Three for Blade.

How many has N.J.O. Luke had? Hmm? How many? Two, three or zero? Zero.

Even in the event that a character from a comic or book has a movie adaptation, you judge the adaptation on its own merit. Not "Comic Hulk did this, so movie Hulk could.". Even if N.J.O. Luke had a movie adaptation, it's not even to say it would be the same, or as powerful, as his book counterpart.

My entire point is, since I have the sinking feeling I'll have to explain this again, book characters do not have a place here. This is for movie characters or movie ADAPTATIONS of characters elsewhere.

Then you discuss movie Wolverine Vs movie Blade.

This isn't the chaos theory, RJ.

-AC