Thor vs Superman

Originally posted by Creshosk
And that's all I'm saying. I'm not saying, oh he can move fast there fore he can fight fast. I'm saying it helps. I mean if these FTL people don't slam into buildings while moving at the speeds they do, then the reverse of a building coming at them at FTL speeds they'd be able to dodge.

To say that it doesn't translate at all ignores their reflexes.

race car drivers can drive over 200mph and avoid obstacles

but if there were objects that came at them at 200mph in an unpredictable fashion, I don't think they could avoid it

I think traveling fast and avoiding meteors is certainly impressive...but not necessarily proof that one can avoid attacks coming at the same speed

meteors can be seen and avoided...attacks are much less predictable

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I was referring to Creshock's argument that "FTL travel speed equals FTL combat speed." And yes, it appears that nobody else buys the argument. Considering his haranguing of me over it, to the point where me not believing that "FTL travel speed equals FTL combat speed" was a violation of the no-PIS rule, I thought that there might be other people out there willing to debate that position.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
He's never been shown to do anything at FTL speeds other then flying.

He's never been shown to do anything at ftl other than flying...

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
But Superman does utilize his combat speed effectively in combat. This is an advantage that Thor has not demonstrated himself. And FTL battle reflexes aren't the complete answer to Superman's combat speeds. But they do help prevent him from being completely overwhelmed by Superman's combat speed in a fight. As for Superman's combat speed, I still am not convinced that he can achieve a FTL speedblitz... especially through an appeal to travel speed.

So superman is faster and thor has ftl combat speeds which helps deal with superman's combat speeds which aren't light speed...

Originally posted by Master-Borg
race car drivers can drive over 200mph and avoid obstacles

but if there were objects that came at them at 200mph in an unpredictable fashion, I don't think they could avoid it

I think traveling fast and avoiding meteors is certainly impressive...but not necessarily proof that one can avoid attacks coming at the same speed

meteors can be seen and avoided...attacks are much less predictable

Originally posted by Creshosk
Its a good thing that superman is using something other than his own power to move in order to make your analogy not a false analogy, right?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I was referring to Creshock's argument that "FTL travel speed equals FTL combat speed." And yes, it appears that nobody else buys the argument. Considering his haranguing of me over it, to the point where me not believing that "FTL travel speed equals FTL combat speed" was a violation of the no-PIS rule, I thought that there might be other people out there willing to debate that position.

Fact is he has fought at such speeds. on several occasions. You saying he won't because he never does is what violates the rules...

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I was referring to Creshock's argument that "FTL travel speed equals FTL combat speed." And yes, it appears that nobody else buys the argument. Considering his haranguing of me over it, to the point where me not believing that "FTL travel speed equals FTL combat speed" was a violation of the no-PIS rule, I thought that there might be other people out there willing to debate that position.

And yet similar examples are used by you and others to justify Surfer's combat speed.......

Originally posted by Creshosk
Straw man... and you accused me of misreading your arguments when you didn't understand a SINGLE one of mine... hell lets look at my first post to you again.

Remember this?

He's never been shown to do anything at ftl other than flying...

So superman is faster and thor has ftl combat speeds which helps deal with superman's combat speeds which aren't light speed...

What combat speed feats does Thor have that don't involve him traveling by his hammer or spinning it? Seriously, show me. Because it's clear no one else will.

The examples being drawn about Thor's ability to beat Superman are ludicrous.

And for the 1,000th time, Thor has not displayed feats high enough to declare him RKT reborn. He's Classic Plus, not skyfather.

Originally posted by Creshosk
I have no problem letting travel speed translate to combat a little if they can react to and not hit things... You'll note tht I have not once said Superman beats Thor. I'm simply attacking the sham distinction that people perpetuate.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
And yet similar examples are used by you and others to justify Surfer's combat speed.......

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Double standards. Whether you take em or drop em, their arguments fall like dominoes. If that scan is not conclusory, then Superman has no proven FTL speed-blitz capability and Thor's proven ON-PANEL FTL battle reflexes give him a good chance of defending against Superman's STL (slower then light) speedblitz.

If you reverse this, and accept that the rebuilding Bizarro city feat counts as evidence of his FTL battle-speed, then you must necessarily accept that Surfer searching the entire Earth in seconds is evidence of his FTL battle-speed. You add this to his on-panel depictions of nanosecond reaction times and combine that with Thor's ability to fight a bloodlusted all-out Surfer evenly and now Thor has FTL battle speed. And that's not the end. Because Gladiator has on-panel nanosecond reaction times and Thor has fought him evenly and even embarassed him. The only time Gladiator appeared superior in any fight was against Masterson Thor. Their arguments kill themselves.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
What combat speed feats does Thor have that don't involve him traveling by his hammer or spinning it? Seriously, show me. Because it's clear no one else will.

The examples being drawn about Thor's ability to beat Superman are ludicrous.

And for the 1,000th time, Thor has not displayed feats high enough to declare him RKT reborn. He's Classic Plus, not skyfather.

He is most definitely skyfather. While it's disputable that he retained the magic of the Runes, he still possesses the Odinforce. And considering that he recreated all of Asgard, keeps it perpetually levitated over Oklahoma, created a chasm across an African country, created a lightning storm that covered the entire Earth and resummoned the ENTIRE pantheon of Asgardian gods... yeah... he is definitely skyfather level at least. Those feats alone are greater then King Thor's.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
What are you talking about? I said early on that if you choose to believe Superman rebuilding a city is evidence of FTL combat speed then you must accept that Silver Surfer searching the world is evidence of FTL combat speed. And most people choose to ignore the Surfer feat. I called out the double standard of Superman supporters. How am I now the one that's using this double standard? Look for yourself. I posted this waaaay back before all the nonsense with Creshock ever happened:

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
See?
There are no clear FTL combat speed feats for Thor. There's never been a caption that stated he had nanosecond reaction times or was engaging in FTL combat speeds. You can only infer them from his fights with Surfer and Gladiator. But I never argued that he has FTL combat speed anyway.

Then what's that?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
He does have FTL battle reflexes though and they were demonstrated on-panel. They are not the same.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
He is most definitely skyfather. While it's disputable that he retained the magic of the Runes, he still possesses the Odinforce. And considering that he recreated all of Asgard, keeps it perpetually levitated over Oklahoma, created a chasm across an African country, created a lightning storm that covered the entire Earth and resummoned the ENTIRE pantheon of Asgardian gods... yeah... he is definitely skyfather level at least.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Those feats alone are greater then King Thor's.

Magneto for Skyfather!

There are people who can't seem to get along. This has been going on through different forums and on multiple threads. The vendettas have caused threads to be closed on different occasions as well. I don't care who started what or who did something most recently. The reports are getting out of hand. This will end one way or the other.

Please don't think that I can't see through the veiled flame baiting and insults. I would have thought with the recent bannings that people would understand that trolling, flaming, baiting and overusing the report button is not acceptable.

Now, I hope the people I'm talking about understand me. I suggest that you all sort this out or I'll be taking other measures to make sure I'm understood. Use the ignore if you can't get along. If somebody isn't open to your talking points in the debate then simply stop replying to them. These are comics, please keep things in perspective.

I don't want any PMs regarding your side of the story. I've spoken to several of you individually and other times I've posted in threads. This ends either on your terms or on my terms. Thanks.

Originally posted by Badabing
There are people who can't seem to get along. This has been going on through different forums and on multiple threads. The vendettas have caused threads to be closed on different occasions as well. I don't care who started what or who did something most recently. The reports are getting out of hand. This will end one way or the other.

Please don't think that I can't see through the veiled flame baiting and insults. I would have thought with the recent bannings that people would understand that trolling, flaming, baiting and overusing the report button is not acceptable.

Now, I hope the people I'm talking about understand me. I suggest that you all sort this out or I'll be taking other measures to make sure I'm understood. Use the ignore if you can't get along. If somebody isn't open to your talking points in the debate then simply stop replying to them. These are comics, please keep things in perspective.

I don't want any PMs regarding your side of the story. I've spoken to several of you individually and other times I've posted in threads. This ends either on your terms or on my terms. Thanks.

crackers

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
And yet similar examples are used by you and others to justify Surfer's combat speed.......

What combat speed feats does Thor have that don't involve him traveling by his hammer or spinning it? Seriously, show me. Because it's clear no one else will.

The examples being drawn about Thor's ability to beat Superman are ludicrous.

And for the 1,000th time, Thor has not displayed feats high enough to declare him RKT reborn. He's Classic Plus, not skyfather.

why? did the odinforce get a downgrade or something that i dont know about? the odinforce is what made odin a skyfather. and the same odinforce is now thor's.

thor brought back all of the asgardians from their mortal/human hosts. now that's a skyfather level feat imo. it may not be a battle feat, but its still one awsome feat.

he also took on the destroyer's full power visor beam and lived. something that he has never done before, in fact, the last time he was hit by the destroyer he died. he is also now officially bullet proof hahahahaha man it took them long enough. here we can see that he is now more durable

so does this make him rkt? no idea, id like to believe that he's at least king thor level now. but rkt? doubt it, he's not blind, and his eyes arent glowing.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
What are you talking about? I said early on that if you choose to believe Superman rebuilding a city is evidence of FTL combat speed then you must accept that Silver Surfer searching the world is evidence of FTL combat speed. And most people choose to ignore the Surfer feat. I called out the double standard of Superman supporters. How am I now the one that's using this double standard? Look for yourself. I posted this waaaay back before all the nonsense with Creshock ever happened and I placed him on ignore:
See?
There are no clear FTL combat speed feats for Thor. There's never been a caption that stated he had nanosecond reaction times or was engaging in FTL combat speeds. You can only infer them from his fights with Surfer and Gladiator. But I never argued that he has FTL combat speed anyway. He does have FTL battle reflexes though and they were demonstrated on-panel. They are not the same.

He is most definitely skyfather. While it's disputable that he retained the magic of the Runes, he still possesses the Odinforce. And considering that he recreated all of Asgard, keeps it perpetually levitated over Oklahoma, created a chasm across an African country, created a lightning storm that covered the entire Earth and resummoned the ENTIRE pantheon of Asgardian gods... yeah... he is definitely skyfather level at least. Those feats alone are greater then King Thor's.

chasam across africa - the hulk can do that, so can ironman and magneto
recreate asgard and keep it levitated - magento and cable could do that. probably shaman nate also
resummoned all the asgardians - now here i can agree. this is a skyfather level worthy feat

i'd say hes probably king thor level at most.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Well as I said before Thor could capture Superman in flight by just surrounding him within a bubble of force. There goes the speed advantage.

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
chasam across africa - the hulk can do that, so can ironman and magneto
recreate asgard and keep it levitated - magento and cable could do that. probably shaman nate also
resummoned all the asgardians - now here i can agree. this is a skyfather level worthy feat

i'd say hes probably king thor level at most.

Magneto and Cable can recreate Asagard. I have a feeling it not just a simple matter of matter manipluation. Asagard isnt just a landmass its different for example matter in Asagard is more durable than Earths.

Originally posted by h1a8
Superman would pop Thor before Thor can even begin to create a bubble. Remember HV plus simultaneous two punches at the speed of a quick instantaneous zip. Every magic Thor has ever done (even RKT) has took him at least a second. There is no way Thor can pull any magic out faster than Superman can instantly zip him. Saying otherwise is pure
speculation.

Enough feats have been shown that Thor could cope with a speedblitz.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Magneto and Cable can recreate Asagard. I have a feeling it not just a simple matter of matter manipluation. Asagard isnt just a landmass its different for example matter in Asagard is more durable than Earths.

Enough feats have been shown that Thor could cope with a speedblitz.

Originally posted by Ricardo Potter
What feats?

Dodging his hammer at point blank.
Dodging Hermes.
One-shotting Doomsday
Reacting to Phoenix after shes fires a blast.

He didn't one shot DD. We see him getting hit once, can you tell me 100 percent he was down for the count?

Also thats a speed feat???

Originally posted by Ricardo Potter
He didn't one shot DD. We see him getting hit once, can you tell me 100 percent he was down for the count?

You dont have to be a 100 percent but common sense dictates that he probably was. Hell you know that when people use programs to run computers there not a 100 percent sure it will work? Does it mean because they're not 100 precent sure they should not use the program?

Originally posted by Ricardo Potter

Also thats a speed feat???

Booster Gold said DD was faster than Flash and DDs superspeed has been referenced time and time again.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Magneto and Cable can recreate Asagard. I have a feeling it not just a simple matter of matter manipluation. Asagard isnt just a landmass its different for example matter in Asagard is more durable than Earths.

true, but it didnt say if he made the new asgard and recreated it from the old asgard or if he just took a pile of dirt from earth and used it to build the new asgard.

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
true, but it didnt say if he made the new asgard and recreated it from the old asgard or if he just took a pile of dirt from earth and used it to build the new asgard.

Well they said he re-created it, so im going to assume that he made it like old Asagard.