Originally posted by CreshoskHe did match the guy long enough to get an attack off 😛
So he constantly goes at lightspeed, knows what lightspeed is, but can't match this guy's lightspeed? Sounds fishy. Mighty fishy for a mighty man. hmmOh by the way you have two incoming attacks on you.
I see I'm waiting for the other guy to post then the much needed butt whooping will begin. 😄
http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengers09814jk8.jpg
this one is also from the respect thread he digs a trench around mind controled superheros before they can react quick silver was among these heros.
Originally posted by NewjakSo the guy knows what he's talking about when he says the other guy is moving at light speed, but doesn't know what hes talking about when he says he can't match his speed?
He did match the guy long enough to get an attack off 😛
Originally posted by NewjakThe "I make metalic clinking noises against Juggernaut" guy?
I see I'm waiting for the other guy to post then the much needed butt whooping will begin. 😄
Originally posted by CreshoskWell it seemed more like Thor knew he couldn't match him in H2H for a prolonged time so he resorted to his others powers much liek Thor would have to do with Superman.
So the guy knows what he's talking about when he says the other guy is moving at light speed, but doesn't know what hes talking about when he says he can't match his speed?The "I make metalic clinking noises against Juggernaut" guy?
And yeah that guy.
Originally posted by h1a8Hey h1a8, did you read the response I wrote to you back on page 296? I actually replied to your theory that Thor was only able to block the attack through telegraphing. Let me know what you think.
Anyway, dodging his hammer at point blank range proves nothing as we don't even know how fast the hammer was going. I've never seen what your talking about in the first place. Show me so I can make a judgment. Second, I never knew Thor fought Doomsday. You know that crossovers aren't canon right? But I would still like to see this. Can you post any scans of the battle and give me some issue numbers of the comics of this series. Finally, I have already debunked the phoenix feat.
Phoenix telegraphed by moving her arms forward, pointing at Thor, in order to blast him. Thor read this telegraph and acted accordingly. Also, the blast is moving thru space over time (not instantaneous). The blast resembles fire and thus isn't necessarily moving at light speed (like a laser beam).
Originally posted by jasofiscWell... I like those scans. Clear references to light speed. Thor uses Mjolnir, his magic and his power to counter Balder's speed. Only to be nitpicky, he was fighting an opponent who was being mind controlled. So usually we don't assume that they are fighting to the best of their ability. And the lightning strike made me do a double take at first, but I think most people agree that Thor's magical lightning is different from normal lightning.
sooo thor and speed in these scans (where I got from the thor respect thread show him fighting a foe whom he claims to be moving at light speed. Thor keeps up. No wheither he was acturally or thor was exagerating I don't know. http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Thor/Thor_1986_369_05.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Thor/Thor_1986_369_06.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Thor/Thor_1986_369_07.jpg
At the least, I'm pretty sure Thor was not exagerrating. To say that a foe can parry something at the speed of light is a bit too clear cut. If he said something poetic like, "He moves like light itself!" or "He moves so fast as to rival that of light!" I could see his language being more for illustrative purposes and hyperbole. As it reads, it's pretty precise language. After all, Thor knows exactly what the speed of light is. I like. ^_^
It's enough to deal with marvel bricks, but not someone with Superman's level of speed. He's so far beyond lightspeed it's rediculous. Can someone get the calculations for Supes and E-2 Supes from IC7? the part when SBP gets to Oa in two panels from Earth, and Supes&E-2 Supes get there one or two panels later?
That's over 100x lightspeed I believe. Or how about when Ollie calls out for Clark in Green Arrow/Black Canary 5, and Clark gets there in 1-2 panels after he hears him, from the other side of the world? Even with limiting his speed to prevent collateral damage, that's still a massive speed burst.
I'm not saying Thor can't win a few. But the speed edge makes a majority highly unlikely.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
It's enough to deal with marvel bricks, but not someone with Superman's level of speed. He's so far beyond lightspeed it's rediculous. Can someone get the calculations for Supes and E-2 Supes from IC7? the part when SBP gets to Oa in two panels from Earth, and Supes&E-2 Supes get there one or two panels later?That's over 100x lightspeed I believe. Or how about when Ollie calls out for Clark in Green Arrow/Black Canary 5, and Clark gets there in 1-2 panels after he hears him, from the other side of the world? Even with limiting his speed to prevent collateral damage, that's still a massive speed burst.
I'm not saying Thor can't win a few. But the speed edge makes a majority highly unlikely.
Let's just ignore the fact that none of those have anything to do with combat speed.
Originally posted by gogogadgetgoOh and I agree with the first part... except maybe Ironman.
chasam across africa - the hulk can do that, so can ironman and magneto
recreate asgard and keep it levitated - magento and cable could do that. probably shaman nate also
resummoned all the asgardians - now here i can agree. this is a skyfather level worthy feati'd say hes probably king thor level at most.
I think god-like Cable could maybe recreate a facsimile of Asgard. But definitely not the actual Asgard. And Magneto definitely could not recreate Asgard. But glad to see you think that resummoning the pantheon was skyfatehr level. I mean... to anybody else... think of it this way: Imagine Themiscyra or Olympus was utterly destroyed. Not just banished. But ripped apart in its own Ragnarok with everyone in it perishing from battle. And someone goes and resummons it all and keeps it levitating perpetually, 20 feet over Kansas and repopulates it. That's skyfather level.
I also say he's King Thor level. Odinforce Thor is basically King Thor without the megalomaniacal mean streak. King Thor was skyfather level. I think that your opinion and mine are not that far apart from each other's. Did you think maybe that I was arguing that Odinforce Thor is Rune King Thor level? I personally, dont subscribe to the fact that he retained the Rune magics. It's arguable either way, he learned it, did he necessarily unlearn it? No. He retains all his memories too. But he hasn't used it or referred to it. And he hasn't kept the sacrifice of the loss of his eyes... so it's possible he's since become unworthy of it. Anyway, until I see him talking about it or using it, he's King Thor level to me. I think that's the way most people treated him since he first came back and wondering whether he actually had the Odinpower in him...
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
It's reaction speed. For combat speed, how about his fights with Darkseid, Orion, Captain Marvel, or that Kryptonian battleship from 'Up, Up and Away!' ?
How about the fact that his travel speed has never translated into his combat speed? Is he fast, hell yes. Leaps and bounds above foes Thor's faced? No, and he hasn't a single combat feat that's indicative of that.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestThat's the same thing you guys say about Thor. How about for Thor's combat speed we look at his fights with Silver Surfer and Gladiator or the various scans posted? Reflexes aren't the same as combat speed. Being able to roll with a FTL punch in the nick of time or block a speed of light attack through battle hardened reflexes is different from countering such attacks with one of your own FTL punches. Gladiator and Hyperion can do the former and the latter. Thor has never demonstrated the latter. Any FTL feats he demonstrates other then travel and missile projection only have to do with defending. I think that's a reasonable assessment and ought to be used with the same rigor on Superman.
It's reaction speed. For combat speed, how about his fights with Darkseid, Orion, Captain Marvel, or that Kryptonian battleship from 'Up, Up and Away!' ?
Originally posted by Ruin
How about the fact that his travel speed has never translated into his combat speed? Is he fast, hell yes. Leaps and bounds above foes Thor's faced? No, and he hasn't a single combat feat that's indicative of that.
You're deluding yourself. 🙄 Surfer is the only foe Thor has ever faced who I'd put in the same ballpark speed-wise, and he never uses his full speed against Thor.
The problem is, he uses his own speed to travel, not portals, or warping, just pure speed. So the travel speed is applicable, mostly because he can stop on a dime and react at warp speeds. Did you even read 'Up, Up, and Away!' ? He was reacting at multiples of lightspeed to isolate that Battleship's command systems and this was a ship that was actively trying to prevent him from taking out it's CPU.
His combat speed is among the best in comics. When Thor can stand up to a blitz from the likes of SBP, Darkseid, Orion, etc, let me know.
And btw, they're putting Supes right up against SMP in Legion of 3 Worlds, so that may be an indication of how strong he is right now. 😈
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
That's the same thing you guys say about Thor. How about for Thor's combat speed we look at his fights with Silver Surfer and Gladiator or the various scans posted? Reflexes aren't the same as combat speed. Being able to roll with a FTL punch in the nick of time or block a speed of light attack through battle hardened reflexes is different from countering such attacks with one of your own FTL punches. Gladiator and Hyperion can do the former and the latter. Thor has never demonstrated the latter. Any FTL feats he demonstrates other then travel and missile projection only have to do with defending. I think that's a reasonable assessment and ought to be used with the same rigor on Superman.
Hype is nowhere Superman's speed. And the Gladiator example backfires, because the one time Glads actually used his speed, he was pounding Thor.
Originally posted by Newjak
Superman wins 10/10 via speedblitz.I feel so dirty. 🙁
**** no he doesn't. 😛 Thor takes at least 2-3 wins. I'm blasting people cause they think Thor can react, but that hammer is an awesomely powerful weapon. If he spams lightning or uses the hammer creatively, he can take a few.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
You're deluding yourself. 🙄 Surfer is the only foe Thor has ever faced who I'd put in the same ballpark speed-wise, and he never uses his full speed against Thor.The problem is, he uses his own speed to travel, not portals, or warping, just pure speed. So the travel speed is applicable, mostly because he can stop on a dime and react at warp speeds. Did you even read 'Up, Up, and Away!' ? He was reacting at multiples of lightspeed to isolate that Battleship's command systems and this was a ship that was actively trying to prevent him from taking out it's CPU.
His combat speed is among the best in comics. When Thor can stand up to a blitz from the likes of SBP, Darkseid, Orion, etc, let me know.
And btw, they're putting Supes right up against SMP in Legion of 3 Worlds, so that may be an indication of how strong he is right now. 😈
And here begins the display of knowledge you lack on Thor. Surfer, Gladiator, Adam warlock, Hermes, Blader, etc. All characters whom at one point displayed reflexes and or combat speed rivaling that of Superman's. Also characters whom at one point fell to Thor.
Again, travel speed is in no way indicative of combat speed. You can deny this, but it's true.
Proof that he was reacting at multiples of the speed of light?
That it is.
Horrible logic.
More distasteful logic.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestHyperion has ON-PANEL punched Gladiator back in nanoseconds. And Gladiator defends and returns them and eventually outfights him. A nanosecond is a billionth of a second. It's 1,000X shorter then a picosecond. Light only travels 1 foot in 1 nanosecond. I think that definitely places him easily on Superman's level of speed. I personally have not seen a clear scan of Superman doing something in nanoseconds:
Hype is nowhere Superman's speed. And the Gladiator example backfires, because the one time Glads actually used his speed, he was pounding Thor.
http://img457.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gladiatorvshyperion049nv.jpg
And the Glads fight backfires on me? What are you talking about? Did you read the fight? Thor was holding back during the whole time. He had formerly been impressed with Gladiator's nobility and was bewildered at Gladiator's accusations that Thor would be a destroyer (referring to King Thor events I guess). Thor even states ON-PANEL that he will no longer hold back after his and Gladiator's fight endangered an airplane full of people. And guess who wins after that proclamation:
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/6744/vsglads2g7tf0mt.jpg
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/6752/vsglads2h2dt2qo.jpg
EDIT: Oops. Images too large, just click links.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Hyperion has ON-PANEL punched Gladiator back in nanoseconds. And Gladiator defends and returns them and eventually outfights him. A nanosecond is a billionth or a second. It's 1,000X shorter then a picosecond. Light only travels 1 foot in 1 nanosecond. I think that definitely places him easily on Superman's level of speed. I personally have not seen a clear scan of Superman doing something in a nanosecond:http://img457.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gladiatorvshyperion049nv.jpg
EDIT: Oops. Images too large, just click links.
that's a pretty good scan....I'm convinced Gladiator and Hyperion are both capable of FTL or near FTL speedblitzes.
Thor isn't though.
Originally posted by Master-BorgI agree. Thor has never thrown a punch in a nanosecond. Thor has never done anything FTL, other than FTL travel or FTL reflexes/defense. And Superman's combat speed is far superior to Thor's. Thor never flies around pummeling baddies with a speedblitz while his brick opponent can only throw a single punch like Superman does. He never imitates intangibility with his speed like Superman does.
that's a pretty good scan....I'm convinced Gladiator and Hyperion are both capable of FTL or near FTL speedblitzes.Thor isn't though.
With all this however, I argue that Superman has never really shown the ability to FTL speedblitz himself. Near FTL speeds? Maybe. Either way, Thor has displayed the ability to keep up and surpass Surfer and Gladiator in straight up fights. I think even Hyperion himself also. And he has definitely displayed on-panel FTL reflexes for defense anyway. But I am loathe to cobble all that together and assert that he is capable of FTL combat speed. It's too circumstantial. Especially since speed has given him problems before, like in the possessed Balder scans.
But his experience with speedsters and FTL reflexes at least gives him a good fighting chance against someone with superior combat speed. Especially if I don't think his opponent's (Superman) combat speed is clearly FTL. That premise combined with comparable durability, comparable strength, comparable fighting skills, exotic powers/spells of Mjolnir and Superman's magic weakness lead me to believe that classic Thor could get a majority on Superman 6/10, maybe 7/10, despite Superman's clear combat speed advantage.
Current Odinforce Thor would be a terrible curbstomp 9/10.
