Thor vs Superman

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
And yet you've never seen Herc or even The Hulk stop Mjolnir with their bare hands.

no, but i wouldn't be shocked if either did. and superman is stronger than either--at least til hulk goes all uber mad.

Takes magical blows from Gods and Heralds without being Ko'ed or put down?? Yeah sure. But does he completely stop, embarass and then KO such being with one hand? And a God whose almost as strong as him anyway? No way.

Also no one's addressed my point about it being PIS that Thor didnt just use Mjolnir to absorb all Supes Heat Vison. [/B]

thor has been hit by energy loads of times, he's also spun to block it. i'd say the times someone shoots energy at him and he flat out absorbs it is FAR less then the times he simply deflects it or blocks it. he was pretty po'd and tried to run through it. that's not pis--that would be cis and is not all that inconsistent with thor's character.

and i have no idea what you're talking about when you say 'with one hand'. is he supposed to punch him with 2? he blocked the hammer and a shocked thor was ko'd. has he taken more damage in the past? sure. the writer had limited space and wanted the fight to be definitive so it couldn't be as long as justice would have had it. i don't see it as pis in any way at all though. the next fight will likely go to thor and both were shown to be near equals. which is pretty much the way it should have been imo.

I do consider Thor and Superman near equals. But I will give credit to Thor for having the ability to beat more beings that Superman can't than the other way around.

Originally posted by h1a8
I do consider Thor and Superman near equals. But I will give credit to Thor for having the ability to beat more beings that Superman can't than the other way around.

I don't understand, I thought that you said in a comparison between Wonder Woman and Savage Hulk that she was far superior to him in terms of lifting feats, and yet Superman is stronger than Wonder Woman, while Thor and Savage Hulk stalemated in a contest of strength for hours.

How then is it possible that Diana at base, could be stronger than even 10x Wendigo, who Savage Hulk was unable to overpower, which clearly placed Wendigo in Thor's range of strength? We aren't even talking about WB Hulk yet who happened to overpower a Wendigo amped x1000 making him 1000x more powerful than his Savage days. This also implies that he was far superior to even Thor in strength.

Can you explain?

Busiek had control of two characters everyone wants to see fight the LEAST he could do is make it awesome and that fight was far from awesome. Thor never used enough of abilities under the Busiek run for my taste. Thor should have been conjuring storms, deflecting/absorbing HV, etc...Superman should have blitzed him, froze him, etc...Thor would clock superman in the middle of the blitz, break out of the ice, then smash superman and electrocute him. Superman would be dodging hammer throws and nailing Thor with multiple punches, hitting him with quick bursts of HV, etc...In The end Thor and supes would be all messed up and it would end on a decisive blow from either. Followed by the collapse of the other..

OR ,and this would be my version of the fight, Thor slams Mjolnir into Clark then beats him to death once he's on the ground and goes off to bang powergirl, super girl, and Lois.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Busiek had control of two characters everyone wants to see fight the LEAST he could do is make it awesome and that fight was far from awesome. Thor never used enough of abilities under the Busiek run for my taste. Thor should have been conjuring storms, deflecting/absorbing HV, etc...Superman should have blitzed him, froze him, etc...Thor would clock superman in the middle of the blitz, break out of the ice, then smash superman and electrocute him. Superman would be dodging hammer throws and nailing Thor with multiple punches, hitting him with quick bursts of HV, etc...In The end Thor and supes would be all messed up and it would end on a decisive blow from either. Followed by the collapse of the other..

OR ,and this would be my version of the fight, Thor slams Mjolnir into Clark then beats him to death once he's on the ground and goes off to bang powergirl, super girl, and Lois.

They need to dedicate an entire maxi series of Thor vs Superman and make it canonical. They need to fight it out more than once, and the story should be handled by someone of Starlin's caliber. Not Starlin but someone that knows their subject matter in terms of both characters, and their history.

Originally posted by Stoic
I don't understand, I thought that you said in a comparison between Wonder Woman and Savage Hulk that she was far superior to him in terms of lifting feats, and yet Superman is stronger than Wonder Woman, while Thor and Savage Hulk stalemated in a contest of strength for hours.

How then is it possible that Diana at base, could be stronger than even 10x Wendigo, who Savage Hulk was unable to overpower, which clearly placed Wendigo in Thor's range of strength? We aren't even talking about WB Hulk yet who happened to overpower a Wendigo amped x1000 making him 1000x more powerful than his Savage days. This also implies that he was far superior to even Thor in strength.

Can you explain?

Thor and Superman are near equals not because they are near each other in strength (Superman is still significantly stronger) but because of TOTAL POWER SET. There are many things Thor can do that Superman can't.

I don't argue base (or average) strength when it comes to forum fights. If I did then WW would be weaker than a 1000x Wendigo. Get it? I argue best feats strength.

Lastly, Wendigo is significantly weaker than upper range Thor and only slightly weaker than average Thor.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Busiek had control of two characters everyone wants to see fight the LEAST he could do is make it awesome and that fight was far from awesome. Thor never used enough of abilities under the Busiek run for my taste. Thor should have been conjuring storms, deflecting/absorbing HV, etc...Superman should have blitzed him, froze him, etc...Thor would clock superman in the middle of the blitz, break out of the ice, then smash superman and electrocute him. Superman would be dodging hammer throws and nailing Thor with multiple punches, hitting him with quick bursts of HV, etc...In The end Thor and supes would be all messed up and it would end on a decisive blow from either. Followed by the collapse of the other..

OR ,and this would be my version of the fight, Thor slams Mjolnir into Clark then beats him to death once he's on the ground and goes off to bang powergirl, super girl, and Lois.

Superman is far faster than Thor. So much that Superman can move more than 5ft before Thor moves 1 inch. Thor is not stopping a Superman's blitz mid flight, especially a blitz from 5 ft away (remember Superman doesn't have to blitz from far back). Superman would see Thor in slower motion relative to him and easily either pop Thor before he can defend or simply circle around Thor if he see's Thor trying to slowing lift his arm to defend.
Also the freeze breath is only used to slow Thor down even more and thus taking away any chance of defense.

Originally posted by h1a8
Why don't you listen well? I said Savage Hulk can't be used as a measuring stick since his strength can range from a few hundred tons to billions of tons or more. We can't know for sure at what level he is operating at unless he performs a feat. His strength is variable and not constant.

Thor and Superman are near equals not because they are near each other in strength (Superman is still significantly stronger) but because of TOTAL POWER SET. There are many things Thor can do that Superman can't.

I don't argue base (or average) strength when it comes to forum fights. If I did then WW would be weaker than a 1000x Wendigo. Get it? I argue best feats strength.

Lastly, Wendigo is significantly weaker than upper range Thor and only slightly weaker than average Thor.

I won't press the topic, perhaps you aren't familiar with classic Wendigo, and how unlike Savage Hulk, he wasn't known to grow in power with rage, while Thor, and the Hulk stalemated for hours cementing in every readers mind, that Thor could match his strength output even as it grew.

It's your opinion, and I'll respect it, even if you may be wrong when speaking on Superman being "significantly" superior to Thor in terms of strength, when upper level feats are to the contrary of your opinion or belief.

Originally posted by h1a8
Superman is far faster than Thor. So much that Superman can move more than 5ft before Thor moves 1 inch. Thor is not stopping a Superman's blitz mid flight, especially a blitz from 5 ft away (remember Superman doesn't have to blitz from far back). Superman would see Thor in slower motion relative to him and easily either pop Thor before he can defend or simply circle around Thor if he see's Thor trying to slowing lift his arm to defend.
Also the freeze breath is only used to slow Thor down even more and thus taking away any chance of defense.

Have you ever seen Thor become an impenetrable shield while turning into a tornado while whirling Mjolnir? He could stop a blitz from Superman, and possibly hurt him in the process. You have to think in terms of both combatants abilities, or you come out with one guy standing there like a dummy, and taking it raw, while not attempting to defend or launch their own attack.

Originally posted by Stoic
Have you ever seen Thor become an impenetrable shield while turning into a tornado while whirling Mjolnir? He could stop a blitz from Superman, and possibly hurt him in the process. You have to think in terms of both combatants abilities, or you come out with one guy standing there like a dummy, and taking it raw, while not attempting to defend or launch their own attack.

No! It takes Thor several seconds to do anything exotic (like weather manipulation). Thor needs to do something in less than a nanosecond.

Originally posted by Stoic
Have you ever seen Thor become an impenetrable shield while turning into a tornado while whirling Mjolnir? He could stop a blitz from Superman, and possibly hurt him in the process. You have to think in terms of both combatants abilities, or you come out with one guy standing there like a dummy, and taking it raw, while not attempting to defend or launch their own attack.

Originally posted by h1a8
Superman is far faster than Thor. So much that Superman can move more than 5ft before Thor moves 1 inch. Thor is not stopping a Superman's blitz mid flight, especially a blitz from 5 ft away (remember Superman doesn't have to blitz from far back). Superman would see Thor in slower motion relative to him and easily either pop Thor before he can defend or simply circle around Thor if he see's Thor trying to slowing lift his arm to defend.
Also the freeze breath is only used to slow Thor down even more and thus taking away any chance of defense.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
your first mistake was confining your argument to H1's "guidelines".

Yeah I'm beginning to see your point.

@H1a8, being an absolutist could be a bad thing in life, because you place all of your eggs in one basket that may have a fatal crash, and then comes the sorrow.

Originally posted by h1a8
Superman is far faster than Thor. So much that Superman can move more than 5ft before Thor moves 1 inch. Thor is not stopping a Superman's blitz mid flight, especially a blitz from 5 ft away (remember Superman doesn't have to blitz from far back). Superman would see Thor in slower motion relative to him and easily either pop Thor before he can defend or simply circle around Thor if he see's Thor trying to slowing lift his arm to defend.
Also the freeze breath is only used to slow Thor down even more and thus taking away any chance of defense.

Thor has tagged Speedsters before.One of them is Olympus's God of Speed and messenger Hermes.Hermes currently displayed this speed feat in Herc#6.1

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This actually shows Hermes speedblitzing 3 baddies and rescuing 3 people at the same time in 1 panel.Its like he's in 6 places at the same time.And Thor has tagged Hermes at least in 2 occasions.

Originally posted by h1a8
Thor, Hulk, etc. hangs with Norrin and Glads when they aren't using speed on them.

So what you think if Surfer tried his best then Thor wouldn't be able to hang with him??? 😆

Thor can swing Mjolnir around faster than Light.. He's been able to do this even since the earliest comics. Mjolnir can also be thrown at Thor's Opponent faster than Light, and it can follow them until it hits them.

In Thor and Surfers first encounter, Thor threw Mjolnir at him, and Surfer could not out fly it. Plus Thor can react to Blitzes. Lets not forget Thor can also fly pretty damn fast. So Supes vs Thor is nothing like Supes vs Hulk in terms of the speed difference.

Originally posted by h1a8
In comics, Superman's average strength is a little above Thor's average or base strength. But at best Superman is a lot stronger than Thor by highest quantifiable feats. But even if they were similar in the strength dept (which they can both hurt each other with their blows) then speed and freeze breath is the main killer here.

Superman will get some more punches in.. But considering what Iv already told you about Mjolnir it wnt be anything like 1000 punches to Thor's 1 hit. But then Thor hits with Mjolnir are going to be more deadly as well, so you have to factor that in too.

As for freeze breath?! Please! Against someone who controls the Weather?! And any Heat Vision would be deflected/absorbed by Mjlonir.

Thor's upper energy attacks on the other hand would be deadly to Supes. His best chance would be to just avoid them altogether and try to Blitz Thor as best he can.

Originally posted by leonidas

thor has been hit by energy loads of times, he's also spun to block it. i'd say the times someone shoots energy at him and he flat out absorbs it is FAR less then the times he simply deflects it or blocks it. he was pretty po'd and tried to run through it. that's not pis--that would be cis and is not all that inconsistent with thor's character.

Thor deflected Gladiator's Heat Vision, and he was Uber pissed at the time. Thor used Mjolnir to absorb every bit of energy Thanos shot out at him and shot it right back at him adding his own power to it, and Thor was also pissed at him at the time.

So yes in this case where it made the difference between winning and losing, it was complete PIS.

Originally posted by leonidas
and i have no idea what you're talking about when you say 'with one hand'. is he supposed to punch him with 2? he blocked the hammer and a shocked thor was ko'd.

He blocked Mjolnir, with Thor's 2 hands behind the blow with just one hand. Supes is not that much stronger than Thor.

OOps double posted again!

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Thor deflected Gladiator's Heat Vision, and he was Uber pissed at the time. Thor used Mjolnir to absorb every bit of energy Thanos shot out at him and shot it right back at him adding his own power to it, and Thor was also pissed at him at the time.

So yes in this case where it made the difference between winning and losing, it was complete PIS.

it's just as easy to say thor knew he could handle it without going down and figured he was going to finish the fight off with a hammer strike but that superman was stronger than he thought. again, i don't see it as pis. cis? i might entertain that argument.

He blocked Mjolnir, with Thor's 2 hands behind the blow with just one hand. Supes is not that much stronger than Thor.

personally, i've always just written it off as thor being somewhat weakened from the HV. though it was short, and clearly not the battle everyone would want to see, it was meant to be exhausting to both. and the cries of pis are never good, because the superman camp could also take that route if they chose as relates kal's speed. it becomes circular. i think the way the battle happened is simply one way it COULD have happened. not the best way, but not pis. least not imo.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

He blocked Mjolnir, with Thor's 2 hands behind the blow with just one hand. Supes is not that much stronger than Thor.

OOps double posted again!

Thor only used one hand. I doubt superman would have stopped a double handed swing.He seemed to at least be struggling with the stop. Its very similar to Neferias stop of Mjolnir.

Originally posted by Damborgson

Thor only used one hand. I doubt superman would have stopped a double handed swing.He seemed to at least be struggling with the stop. Its very similar to Neferias stop of Mjolnir.

thanks for that. i didn't THINK it was a 2-handed shot but was too lazy to look it up. 😮

Originally posted by Stoic
I won't press the topic, perhaps you aren't familiar with classic Wendigo, and how unlike Savage Hulk, he wasn't known to grow in power with rage, while Thor, and the Hulk stalemated for hours cementing in every readers mind, that Thor could match his strength output even as it grew.

was hulk getting madder/stronger in their fights???
i thought he would start and stay peed off to teh extent he was earlier.

besides hulk starts out significantly weaker than thor, the reason they were stalemating was cause hulk was very durable even when not at thors level.