Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
I love Superman - but whoever is saying that Superman is NOT weak to magic is getting their facts wrong I'm afraid.... 🙁If he's really mad then yes - he can ignore ANYTHING, magical or not, that's thrown at him... but he's been to death's door and still not gotten that mad before - it rarely happens.
In Superman and the Phantom Stranger, Superman fights a woman who's been mystically powered by a magic gem - she kicks him about a bit with magic and drains him of life so he's a withered husk... he then snaps her staff and the gems releases all his power back to him.
Then literally as soon as Supes gets back to his apartment after the fight, Phantom Stranger comes to ask Superman for help fighting a magical enemy - Supes tells him to get lost!
He says how he's just as vulnerable to magic as anyone else and that Phanty should go bother Dr Fate or someone who knows how to handle that kinda thing... 🙁 sorry.
HOWEVER - Superman is fast enough AND strong enough AND durable enough AND versatile enough to take out Thor. This is proven.
BUT - it is is also proven that Supes has a weakness to magic that Thor could very well exploit and take a win by.
SCENARIO:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Superman and Thor are facing eachother across a barren waste...
Winds are howling and storm clouds gather...
The honour of their respective universes hang in the balance as they prepare for the ulltimate showdown... neither knows who the other person is, but both know the seriousness of the ensuing fight...
Superman is sure of himself, confident in his invulnerability, certain of his unmatched strength.
Thor is wiser, older, more experienced - he knows not to underestimate a foe and he charges Mjolnir up with power - it's magic uru metal crackles with thin wisps of bluish lightning...
A crack! Like a gunshot! And Superman launches off the ground and into the air, cape flapping behind, he soars majestically - and overconfidently - trying to get the advantage of height... but leaving himself open...
Being an experienced warrior - Thor siezes his oppurtunity and lets loose with a bolt of lightning against an unprepared foe!
Superman grins as the bolt streaks towards him a hundred feet in the air. CRACK!! He gasps as the lightning strikes and he feels it coursing through his muscles and nerves! No ordinary lightning would feel like this! Pain! But not enough to stop the Man of Steel! He closes his eyes and screams defiance against the agony!
Another mistake...
Thor appears instantly with his godlike speed - directly in front of Superman... Kalel opens his eyes to see a hammer swinging right for his abdomen. Again - the normal reassuring thud of an atack stoppping milimetres from his skin fails to occur... and the hammer crushses with inhuman strength into his stomach - winding Superman badly...
Doubled up in pain, he feels another smashing blow, to his side, and another - this time to the back of his neck... as Thor moves about him and wields his hammer like only an experienced and trained warrior could...
Superman falls - nay, streaks - downwards to the ground.. like a stricken plane... he impacts... the ground splits asunder... and Superman lies there.. curled up, fists clenched... blood trickling from his mouth... but alive...
Thor alights on the ground... at a distance, still wary - but feeling more confident... He advances, hands still curled around his mighty hammer, lightning still crackling about him and fizzing as the first drops of rain start to fall, sporadically, almost as though they too are wary of entering the fray...
He sees his foe move and tenses... Superman rises to his knees, resting with his head bowed, hands palm down on the floor in front of him, cape seared around the edges...
"Dost thou yield...?" Thor waits... "Dost thou yield, honourable foe...? You have proven yourself to have a constitution beyond the ken of mortals - that is enough - do not force me to reveal my true godly power...!"
Supermans head raises... rain drips off his bleeding brow...
His eyes glow with deep red, like infernal fires...
He rises to his feet... unsteady still... he raises his countenance to the sky and sees the sullen grey clouds... drawing in a breath, he let's out a whisper of breath... that builds... to a breeze... a gust.. a gale...
Thor's eyes widen as the very storm clouds themselves biol and seethe before fleeing from such power... the skies clear and the liberated sun beats down... bathing the area with sunlight...
As it dapples Superman's face he smiles...
So many years, so many foes... yet there's always lessons in patience, in humility, to be learned... lessons to make you a better person...
A better warrior...
A better hero...
His cuts and bruises on his face already starting to slowly heal, he brings his gaze back down to the patiently waiting Thor...
"I never yield... I've been battered... and didn't yield... I've been killed... yet still I didn't yield..." He rubs his neck, the sore muscles loosening and starting to throb a little less... "You're a mighty foe, my friend..." He smiles... "But I've got things to do... so it's time I opened the taps a little..."
Thor grins... "Very well! Then let us not waste any..."
BAAM! He's sent skidding backwards on his back... sliding through the mud for hundreds of yards before coming to a rest... against Superman's feet...
"Impressive for a mortal!" Thor smiles - then unleashes a bolt of magical power from his hammer - that flows forth to hit... thin air!
"Missed..." Thor spins and see's Superman standing a distance away... shrouded in the mist that's started rising from the sodden ground... he focuses his eyes to see...
A bright red flash pierces the silvery veil and sets the very air alight around him!
"Gnaah!" Dropping Mjolnir into the mud, he reaches with both hand sot cover his eyes, white dots in his vision, eyes stinging from the shock.
Bang! He's in the air... chin tingling from an uppercut the likes of which he'd never felt before... he lands again in the mud.. on his knees... strokes his chin and laughs... "Well met.... friend...?"
He doesn't know whether his vision is clear or not... he sees Superman standing not far off... but is it him - he somehow flickers in the light... there but... not!?
Mjolnir appears in his hand to his beckoning and Thor charges forwards like a force of nature... Mjolnir sails from his hand and whistles through the air towards Supermans face... a wry grin crosses the Man of Steels features.... and the mystical hammer sails straight through and out the back of his skull... leaving him perfectly intact...
Thor gasps! "What sourcery is this?"
"A wink. "No sourcery bud - just plain old molecular science..."
Ten Superman seemingly appear out of nowhere and strike Thor, seemingly simultaneously - such is the speed of this solar powered soldier...
Thor falls... cowed, but not yet beaten... lying in the mud fifty yards away is Mjolnir... it flies again to it's master's call...
Snaps into his hands, empowering him... Thor stands and lightning crackles about him as he charges up for a mighty blast of Godly power, holding aloft his awesome hammer!
"No chance pal...!"
Kalel grabs at Thors wrists and wrestles his arms down until they stand there, locked together, battling for control of the hammer...
Muscles tensed, grimacing, they're nearly evenly matched in power, the very ground for miles about cracking and straining with the forces being unleashed...
Thor summons magical lightning to crackle about them and watches to see how long Superman can resist the pain raking across his flesh...
Superman smiles... "Not this time, I'm afraid..." With power that moves planets and crushes coal into diamonds, he squeezes Thor's wrists in his hands until.... CRACK!
Whether bone or just the fluids in his joints.... Thor roars and tries to hold onto his hammer... Superman narrows his eyes and struggles against the lightning that courses through him...
Who has the strongest will...?
...
.....Mjolnir falls to the ground... the warriors step back from each other...
Thor falls backwards onto his cape, in the mud, breathing heavily... massaging his knuckles, eyes wide with shock and wonder...
Superman stands, immovable, majestic, steam rising from his singed costume, eyes glowing, breating slow, purposeful...
He steps forwards... his eyes lower to the hammer in front of him...
He reaches down....
Thor frowns... would it be dishonourable to alow a victory by such means... should he stop him....?
Too late... Superman's fingers curl about the mystically carved handle and heft the hammer high above his head...
Lightning strikes from the sky and hits the hammer bathing Superman in massive cosmic power!! He grits his teeth and roars his retort as it continues to lash at him... his knees tremble and his muscles seem to ripple and surges as the unnatural currents flow through him... flames seem to rise from his eyes as the power seeks a way out...
And then... the lightning stops.
And Superman stands.... alive... and undefeated...
Thor trembles... of all things to happen... who is this man...? What heart must he have beating in that chest...? A heart for others - and not for himself! A heart after Thor's own heart!
The heart of someone who is worthy of Mjolnir!
The heart of a hero....
Superman reaches down with his hand... reaches down to his one time opponent... his one time adversary...
And Thor accepts his offer of a lift up...
Accepts his hand...
As a friend.. and a comrade...
As a fellow hero.
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Good stuff. Thats pretty much how I would see it going down.
<<100 light speed LMAO nice one leo
World destroying punches will break superman into piece facts are facts.>>
yep, great 'facts'. all these 'great powers' did him a LOT of good against thor and hulk (ya, ya, i know - bad writing!) 2 guys supes has already beaten - x-over or no. lmao!! but i'm sure they'd be GREAT against someone who has actually SHOWN he can do more than charge an opponent at superspeed! and who are you trying to kid - supes' strength feats are at least as impressive as glads.
<<Loose confidence lol wow that happens all the time ( it rarely happened)>>
so then he must have been at full power and confidence when thor and hulk waxed him?? more's the pity for you - guess richards needs to update his database . . .
and forum rules??! are you kidding?? if i struck STRICTLY to that (which i already explained to you i think are ridiculous) i'd say supes has (once again . . .) SHOWN in a comic book that he has the ability to dodge AND fight at superspeed in the process of fighting an opponent!! SHOW me glads doing that. i don't mean a scan of him flying at 100x FTL, not a scan that implies on your (or others) making an ASSUMPTION of such a feat - get a scan unequivocally SHOWING him doing MORE than running fast in a charge, ANYTHING that undeniably SHOWS him doing anything SIMILAR to what supes did against doomsday and others in the past. until then, based on 'forum rules', because i HAVE seen supes move like that once (more than once) in the past, and NEVER seen glads do it, i guess i should just sub glads in as dd in that scan to get the result of the fight.
course, this is NOT supes v glads, so let's get back on topic: you keep bringing up magic - THE EFFECTS OF IT ARE NOT WHAT THEY USED TO BE AGAINST HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! pre-c supes NEEDED the weakness to make him beatable. post-c supes, downgraded in power, has no need of such a weakness so it has been lessened. yes, he is still not COMPLETE proof against it, like he is against most other things. but his invulnerabilty is still plenty strong enough to hang with thor in this fight until either thor hit him with one of his BIG shots, or supes scored the ko.
and who the hell said thor was weak against punches?? cripes, stop reading into things what you want (not you kg). it would be a terribly difficult fight for BOTH of them, but yes, a combo of speed (and why is FLASH hit, froth? why is GLADIATOR with '100x FTLspd hit? that's a ludicrous statement - characters with superspeed are hit all the time or what the hell good would showing a fight between them be? all this has been said time and time again on this merry-go-round thread), strength, heat vision, perhaps his expanding mental powers, all of these things COULD wear thor down to the point where supes could score one big shot and ko him.
or thor could score that big shot and ko supes. it is a close fight. seriously, if you can't at least admit THAT, you've not read enough of one or the other, OR of BOTH! and here i was thinking i was finally done with this thread . . .
<<"Magic is not a weakness for Superman either"
well people ................>>
the problem with this scan being replayed over and over again is that it assumes that you are saying other characters WOULDN'T be affected by this display of power. do you believe, for instance, that this lightning wouldn't hurt hulk, for example, as much as it hurt supes? i think that's far from truth. MOST characters would be BADLY hurt by this attack, if not killed. again, his invulnerabilty is LESS against magic, but not so much less than some think.
Originally posted by leonidas
<<"Magic is not a weakness for Superman either"well people ................>>
the problem with this scan being replayed over and over again is that it assumes that you are saying other characters WOULDN'T be affected by this display of power. do you believe, for instance, that this lightning wouldn't hurt hulk, for example, as much as it hurt supes? i think that's far from truth. MOST characters would be BADLY hurt by this attack, if not killed. again, his invulnerabilty is LESS against magic, but not so much less than some think.
Superman is not as durable as Hulk is without his bioaura. That's ridiculous. Hulk could definitely take a magical attack better than Superman did.
1000 posts! 💃
Originally posted by kgkgI tried to get it so you guys could read it. But the yellow narration says "space bends around him. At this velocity, time slows down". And then the next box says "This is superspeed"
Does it say?I can't even read anything on that scan.
But I do remember him not catching bullets in recent comics, and speed said that himself
Believe it or not Superman can exceed light in space. Earth he cannot but he can move faster than mach 50
😆
When people say "ooh- he struggles above mach 1 or whatever in the atmosphere" just point them in the direction of the Flash vs Supes race.
FOOTrace.
Two
Thousand
Miles
Per
Second.
On foot. Sustained.
Per second. Running. On his feet.
On the ground.
In an atmosphere.
On his feet!
Every second!!! 😱
That's seven million two hundred thousand miles per hour!!!
7,200,000mph!!!
That's mach 9,600!!!
In the atmosphere!
On foot!
POSTcrisis!
😱 😱 😱
Did I mention he did it.... on FOOT!?
Originally posted by ZephroCarnelianActually it says over 2000 miles per second 😉
When people say "ooh- he struggles above mach 1 or whatever in the atmosphere" just point them in the direction of the Flash vs Supes race.FOOTrace.
Two
Thousand
Miles
Per
Second.
On foot. Sustained.
Per second. Running. On his feet.
On the ground.
In an atmosphere.
On his feet!
Every second!!! 😱
That's seven million two hundred thousand miles per hour!!!
7,200,000mph!!!
That's mach 9,600!!!
In the atmosphere!
On foot!
POSTcrisis!
😱 😱 😱
Did I mention he did it.... on FOOT!?
Originally posted by kgkgkgkg you know as well as I do that he was not dipping in the sun. That object in the back happens to be a planet Superman had to go through to destroy cause it was a planet eating planet basically. I read the comic and he may have been amped up or he may not have been. There is no indication either way. But either way you cannot overlook the power of his heat vision even if he is amped up.
Here is supes dipping rite before that heat visionn ohhhhhhhhh
Originally posted by snoopdogg
kgkg you know as well as I do that he was not dipping in the sun. That object in the back happens to be a planet Superman had to go through to destroy cause it was a planet eating planet basically. I read the comic and he may have been amped up or he may not have been. There is no indication either way. But either way you cannot overlook the power of his heat vision even if he is amped up.
I thought the cannibal planet was eating the Sun.