Blade vs. Wolverine

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
She can phase before she gets hit by a speedster the speed at which she phases is instanteous, also Northstar was shitting his pants, Kitty was not. That explains why she phased before he moved.

Exactly, so it had nothing to do with speed upgrades or level 7 fighting skill.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
However if Wolverine was somehow was less fast I dont think he would have got Northstar.

Originally posted by jinzin
Exactly, so it had nothing to do with speed upgrades or level 7 fighting skill.

No one argued Wolverine was slower. Th argument is that he didn't have speed upgrades nor level 7 fighting ability even though you seemed to be under the impression that he did.

Ok there seems to be a misunderstanding I agreed a 100 years ago that he was not upgraded.

I am arguing that the brainwashing did not make him slower because if it did Northstar would have been able to react to Wolverine despite the circumstances. How the brainwashing would make him slower is by the fact he didnt want to kill Northstar and Kitty and there is no on-panel evidence to say that he was at the time.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok there seems to be a misunderstanding I agreed a 100 years ago that he was not upgraded.

I am arguing that the brainwashing did not make him slower because if it did Northstar would have been able to react to Wolverine despite the circumstances. How the brainwashing would make him slower is by the fact he didnt want to kill Northstar and Kitty and there is no on-panel evidence to say that he was at the time.

I haven't actually read Enemy of the State, and this thread has gotten too lengthy for me to really bother with it, so maybe I missed something--- but since when does brain-washing affect a character's speed? Fighting ability, sure... but speed?

Wolverine was shown to be in conflict with his Hydra programming, so maybe he was a bit hesitant in doing some of the things he set out to do. It shouldn't impair his natural speed though.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok there seems to be a misunderstanding I agreed a 100 years ago that he was not upgraded.

I am arguing that the brainwashing did not make him slower because if it did Northstar would have been able to react to Wolverine despite the circumstances. How the brainwashing would make him slower is by the fact he didnt want to kill Northstar and Kitty and there is no on-panel evidence to say that he was at the time.

ban

😏

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
I haven't actually read Enemy of the State, and this thread has gotten too lengthy for me to really bother with it, so maybe I missed something--- but since when does brain-washing affect a character's speed? Fighting ability, sure... but speed?

Wolverine was shown to be in conflict with his Hydra programming, so maybe he was a bit hesitant in doing some of the things he set out to do. It shouldn't impair his natural speed though.

It does because it depends upon how you feel about what you are doing. If you charge at somebody with the intent to kill and you believe in what you are doing you are going to be faster than you would be if you felt bad about what you were doing and did not want to do it. The mind can affect you physically.

Originally posted by jinzin
And NO ONE argued that it DID make him slower so why bring it up?.. That's just the latest red herring you're reachin for now that your original argument's been blasted to hell.

Well whats this? Of course you're going to tell me I misunderstood.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Except that he was trying to fight off the mind-control that was trying to make him kill his friends, multicolored contradictory thought boxes were shown, multiple statements of his head being clouded, being completely out of it.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
My point is that when people get brainwashed you cant assume that there fighting ability is affected.

Obvoulsy if you are fighting mind-control you are not going to be as fast as you would be because you would be hesistant and conflicted about what you were doing. Remember when you argued that reason why Wolverine got hit by Namor was because he didnt want to fight him.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
ban

😏

😂

It's just that Phantom's arguments are ALL OVER THE PLACE. When he's not making stuff up he's shifting the "points" of his arguments so he has something left to argue about, even if it IS just for the sake of arguing..

I mean damn, the last several pages have been a mess.

"Wolverine's fighting ability doesn't mean a damned thing Daredevil gave him hell"
"Wolerine's fighting ability wasn't effected by mind control and he even had upgrades"
"Jinzin deduced that he had upgrades because Northstar said he (northstar) had upgrades"
"Wolverine's upgrades may be tech but he still tagged Northstar"
"Northstar was crapping his pants but Wolverine isn't slower".

It gets so confusing that you don't actually know what he's talking about anymore. And that's on top of making up comic feats, dictating plotlines that never took place, and making up arguments from other members..

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He ran up the wires....so...ermm that proves that Thing was at a huge disadvantage because Thing ran up the wires?

Where was he hit?

I didn't say Thing was at a huge disadvantage. I asked multiple times:

What was so incredibly skilled that it would require all of Wolverine's unimpaired ability and a non-existent speed upgrade about running up a thick bunch of wires and stabbing someone who has always been much slower than you in the shoulder, while their hands are occupied holding the wires, while missing the head and heart you were seemingly aiming at?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok there seems to be a misunderstanding I agreed a 100 years ago that he was not upgraded.

I am arguing that the brainwashing did not make him slower because if it did Northstar would have been able to react to Wolverine despite the circumstances. How the brainwashing would make him slower is by the fact he didnt want to kill Northstar and Kitty and there is no on-panel evidence to say that he was at the time.

You just suddenly made up that you're arguing "it didn't make him slower," since no one has been saying it did, they've been saying his skill was affected by being out of it due to brainwashing as it tends to be, instead of what you were really arguing, that "they made him faster" in some sort of smoke-and-mirrors attempt to hide your ineptitude.

Originally posted by jinzin
😂

It's just that Phantom's arguments are ALL OVER THE PLACE. When he's not making stuff up he's shifting the "points" of his arguments so he has something left to argue about, even if it IS just for the sake of arguing..

I mean damn, the last several pages have been a mess.

"Wolverine's fighting ability doesn't mean a damned thing Daredevil gave him hell"
"Wolerine's fighting ability wasn't effected by mind control and he even had upgrades"
"Jinzin deduced that he had upgrades because Northstar said he (northstar) had upgrades"
"Wolverine's upgrades may be tech but he still tagged Northstar"
"Northstar was crapping his pants but Wolverine isn't slower".

It gets so confusing that you don't actually know what he's talking about anymore. And that's on top of making up comic feats, dictating plotlines that never took place, and making up arguments from other members..

I guess I'll hold the petition for Alf's ban until he hits 2damnloud levels....

YOU'RE ON THIN ICE, PAL!!!!!!!!!!! mad2

Wolverine wins just about every time.

And what's the context of my post that was quoted, you ask gentle sirs and madams:

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
There is no evidence to say that Wolverines fighting abiltiy was affected in fact quite the opposite.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Except that he was trying to fight off the mind-control that was trying to make him kill his friends, multicolored contradictory thought boxes were shown, multiple statements of his head being clouded, being completely out of it.

Why I believe I was referring to skill. But then again that post was, like, 100 years ago. Like, you know, whatever.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well whats this? Of course you're going to tell me I misunderstood.

What I see there is X's response you you insisting that Wolverine's fighting ability wasn't effected by brainwashing. At which part of X's post you think even comes close to relating to speed much less implying that he (Wolverine) was slower is beyond the scope of logical, rational, linear thought processes. And you just discredited yourself again by quoting YOUR OWN POST that deals with fighting ability not speed... See? This is the type of crap that I just posted about. doh!

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Obvoulsy if you are fighting mind-control you are not going to be as fast as you would be because you would be hesistant and conflicted about what you were doing.

So if Wolverine didn't have upgrades and was infact fighting mind-control which by your logic would make him slower what does that tell you about his fighting with Daredevil. 😐

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Remember when you argued that reason why Wolverine got hit by Namor was because he didnt want to fight him.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Thing didn't run up wires. Wolverine did. He's hit in the scan I posted, dolt.

Thing got hit Wolverine didnt. I asked where did Wolverine get hit.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

I didn't say Thing was at a huge disadvantage. I asked multiple times:

What was so incredibly skilled that it would require all of Wolverine's unimpaired ability and a non-existent speed upgrade about running up a thick bunch of wires and stabbing someone who has always been much slower than you in the shoulder, while their hands are occupied holding the wires, while missing the head and heart you were seemingly aiming at? You agreed two pages ago after several posts saying he had a speed upgrade, which you had no evidence of.

Anyway the scans show evidence of him fighting brainwashing in that instance

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

You just suddenly made up that you're arguing "it didn't make him slower," since no one has been saying it did, instead of what you were really arguing, that "they made him faster" in some sort of smoke-and-mirrors attempt to hide your ineptitude.

I said there was no evidence of brainwashing affecting his fighting ability. You said he was fighting brainwashing this obvoulsy will make you hesistant and conflicted about what you are doing, that would make you slower eg the argument used by Jinzin where Wolverine got punched by Namor because he didnt want to fight him.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Thing got hit Wolverine didnt. I asked where did Wolverine get hit.

Could someone please point out to me in this scan where Thing is hit while Wolverine remains completely unscathed. My eyes apparently doth deceive me.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Anyway the scans show evidence of him fighting brainwashing in that instance

You were the one saying his skill was unaffected and his speed was upgraded and claiming two instances proved this.

1) That he managed to stab Thing.
2) That he managed to stab Northstar.

Neither of these show any sort of speed upgrade and I asked about the former:
What was so incredibly skilled that it would require all of Wolverine's unimpaired ability and a non-existent speed upgrade about running up a thick bunch of wires and stabbing someone who has always been much slower than you in the shoulder, while their hands are occupied holding the wires, while missing the head and heart you were seemingly aiming at? You agreed two pages ago after several posts saying he had a speed upgrade, which you had no evidence of.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
And what's the context of my post that was quoted, you ask gentle sirs and madams:

Why I believe I was referring to skill. But then again that post was, like, 100 years ago.

I said fighting ability and your post was in response to it. Speed is part of fighting ability

Originally posted by jinzin
Uh yeah it's obvious so I guess I don't need to tell you you misunderstood..

What I see there is X's response you you insisting that Wolverine's fighting ability wasn't effected by brainwashing. At which part of X's post you think even comes close to relating to speed much less implying that he (Wolverine) was slower is beyond the scope of logical, rational, liar thought processes. And you just discredited yourself again by quoting YOUR OWN POST that deals with fighting ability not speed... See? This is the type of crap that I just posted about. doh!

Speed is part of fighting ability! If you are hesistant and fighting mind control are you going to fast as you would be if you were sure about what you were doing.

Originally posted by jinzin

🤨 So your argument is that Wolverine wasn't slower (Don't ask me what this is supposed to prove for either side), but that by your logic he should have been? Which proves what again?

So if Wolverine didn't have upgrades and was infact fighting mind-control which by your logic would make him slower what does that tell you about his fighting with Daredevil. 😐[/B][/QUOTE]

No I didnt say that the mind-control made him slower read my quote again. I said there is no evidence to say that it did. X said that he was fighting mind-control and obvoulsy that affects your fighting ability which includes speed.

Originally posted by jinzin

Which has nothing to do with mind control. It was two an exchange of cheap shots. Nothing more.

Yes but he was standing right in front of him so he would have saw the punch coming. The point is he didnt want to fight and that affected his performance.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
that would make you slower eg the argument used by Jinzin where Wolverine got punched by Namor because he didnt want to fight him.

People keep stating that Namor was too fast for Wolverine to react to in that instance but it's a misrepresentation, they were exchanging cheap shots and netiher wanted to fight the other.. that's all there is to it.

Wow. Just wow. Keep squirming, Kotex. Everyone can read what you were originally arguing, in the 100 year/two page ago archives.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Could someone please point out to me in this scan where Thing is hit while Wolverine remains completely unscathed. My eyes apparently doth deceive me.

The first panel looks like he tried to wack it down on his head. Wolverine moved. The bits of debris could because the equipment hit the floor.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

You were the one saying his skill was unaffected and his speed was upgraded and claiming two instances proved this.

No I didnt all I mentioend was speed but obvoulsy speed affects fightign ability by default anyway.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

1) That he managed to stab Thing.
2) That he managed to stab Northstar.

Neither of these show any sort of speed upgrade and I asked about the former:
What was so incredibly skilled that it would require all of Wolverine's unimpaired ability and a non-existent speed upgrade about running up a thick bunch of wires and stabbing someone who has always been much slower than you in the shoulder, while their hands are occupied holding the wires, while missing the head and heart you were seemingly aiming at? You agreed two pages ago after several posts saying he had a speed upgrade, which you had no evidence of.

Irrelevant dont think he speed upgrades anymore.

Originally posted by jinzin
and netiher wanted to fight the other.. that's all there is to it.

and that affects your fighting abilty doesnt it?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I said fighting ability and your post was in response to it. Speed is part of fighting ability

Speed is part of fighting ability! If you are hesistant and fighting mind control are you going to fast as you would be if you were sure about what you were doing.

Wrong... Wrong... WRONG!!!!!!!!!

Fighting ability in comics only refers to actual skill. Speed is a separate attribute altogether. Otherwise, speedsters and cosmics would all be level 7 fighters.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I said fighting ability and your post was in response to it. Speed is part of fighting ability

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Speed is part of fighting ability! If you are hesistant and fighting mind control are you going to fast as you would be if you were sure about what you were doing.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No I didnt say that the mind-control made him slower read my quote again. I said there is no evidence to say that it did. X said that he was fighting mind-control and obvoulsy that affects your fighting ability which includes speed.

🤨 You just made several implications that Mind-control should make somone slower, you did it in this very post. Wolverine was mind controlled, ergo Wolverine should be slower by your logic.

X said he was fighting mind control, which would affect fighting ability, but didn't impair the fast and slow twitch muslces in Logan's body.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yes but he was standing right in front of him so he would have saw the punch coming. The point is he didnt want to fight and that affected his performance.

It affected his performance in a negative way.
Thus if he was fighting mind control, AND it affected his performance...
Then AGAIN what does that tell you about the fight with Daredevil?