Vulcan vs Terrax

Originally posted by leonidas
hrm. sounds like you're suggesting manifesting the force was a result of jean's power as opposed to the force (which existed long before and independent of jean) choosing jean as an avatar.

i can agree entirely with the rest of your post, but that first part puzzles me . . . mhmm

Does Eternity existing before this happens negate the fact that that's whats speculated to happen?

I mean the force existing before Jean was around, it might have noticed her through some manifestation of her power, otherwise seriously, why would it have ever noticed her? One mutant before hand who really hadn't shown anything that impressive is chosen out of the entire universe?

Sure NOW we have two. And there's another question of relevance of being called an omega on panel is again "ad ignorantiam". as the only evidence we have NOW is that people have stated that they are. But before a given mutant was identified as being an omega, does that mean that they themselves are NOT an omega? Was Jean and Iceman, whom are omega's now, not omegas when they first appeared?

Its like the question I pose people of the existence of things before we discover them. They existed before we discovered them right? Before we had evidence of the existence of viruses and atoms they still existed.

Likewise back when Jean and Bobby first appeared they were still omegas without it having been stated at that point in time. So then do they suddenly become omegas when they're stated on panel to be? Or is it possible that there are more than the confirmed 7 but we don't know it yet?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Well what we're suggesting now is that through being an omega that will allow them to become an eternity themselves right?

Does Eternity existing before this happens negate the fact that that's whats speculated to happen?

I mean the force existing before Jean was around, it might have noticed her through some manifestation of her power, otherwise seriously, why would it have ever noticed her? One mutant before hand who really hadn't shown anything that impressive is chosen out of the entire universe?

Sure NOW we have two. And there's another question of relevance of being called an omega on panel is again "ad ignorantiam". as the only evidence we have NOW is that people have stated that they are. But before a given mutant was identified as being an omega, does that mean that they themselves are NOT an omega? Was Jean and Iceman, whom are omega's now, not omegas when they first appeared?

Its like the question I pose people of the existence of things before we discover them. They existed before we discovered them right? Before we had evidence of the existence of viruses and atoms they still existed.

Likewise back when Jean and Bobby first appeared they were still omegas without it having been stated at that point in time. So then do they suddenly become omegas when they're stated on panel to be? Or is it possible that there are more than the confirmed 7 but we don't know it yet?

😂

and THAT is why you've always been one of my faves around here, cresh. 😉

i agree that there ARE likely other omegas out there that are unconfirmed. beyond that, we will likely be made aware of omegas who lived in the past and didn't reach their potential so were never acknowledged as omegas. (though it's equally possible omegas are only a recent evolution . . .)

and i'll concede you the chance that the force chose jean BECAUSE of her potential. in fact, it makes perfect sense to me. that would clear a lot of things up i think. but there have been other wielders before jean and since then many have been shown to have accessed it. not in the way jean has though, so your point stands up to that fact.

i still don't like the idea that they evolve to become 'eternities'. did OUR eternity evolve from an omega in a previous universe? do 'eternities' and other abstracts arise in different ways? shrug

Originally posted by leonidas
i still don't like the idea that they evolve to become 'eternities'. did OUR eternity evolve from an omega in a previous universe? do 'eternities' and other abstracts arise in different ways? shrug

The LT is a big fan of natural selection.

I think Vulcan will pull out the win in this one

I think Eternity was used as an example of how, one mutant could eventually replace him. I would not be surprised if they simply created a new bread of abstracts, with different power sets. Similar to how, the Greek Gods replaced Titans and took over, what ever they ware in charge of.

X-Men/Marvel are silly on how they tag mutants with omega potential. Going by how Mr. M or Vulcan ware tagged as one, MJJ and Jamie B, are clear examples of fitting the that classification. But so far, Franklin is the only one out of the Omega’s M. that is living up to its potential.

By today’s standard, Jean clearly reached omega claims. Thats before the Phoenix was retconed to being a separate cosmic entity. Its interesting that in the AoA, this is some what still respected. Jean is the descendent of Alpha the first mutant (don’t confuse it with our Alpha), and manifests her omega level powers in the form of the Phoenix Rapture…er I think.

Originally posted by llagrok
Then what's Vargas?

Mutants represent the quantum leap, from human evolution. But it does not necessarily mean, they could not have developed meta human status on its own.

Originally posted by leonidas

i agree.

rachel isn't omega but wielded the force as well.

her omega status should be viewed seperately from her having been chosen by the force.

unless there is some evidence she was chosen BECAUSE she was omega . . .

And I agree with you Leo, the Force did choose Jean,
and initially it had nothing to do with her future classification of being "omega."

Originally posted by Creshosk

Well what we're suggesting now is that through being an omega that will allow them to become an eternity themselves right?

Does Eternity existing before this happens negate the fact that that's whats speculated to happen?

Mankind will not evolve into Eternity literally,
because Eternity and even the LT will be inconsequential and insignificant to Mankind,
every person will be a "God" ruling over their own infinite creation,
that's supposed to be the finality of it all,
this is why the LT,
Eternity and the rest,
were bowing to the Stranger in this futuristic vision where the Stranger stole Mankind's destiny.

So imo, Eternity's is irrelevant in the plans of Humanity.

Originally posted by Creshosk

I mean the force existing before Jean was around,
it might have noticed her through some manifestation of her power,
otherwise seriously, why would it have ever noticed her?
One mutant before hand who really hadn't shown anything that impressive
is chosen out of the entire universe?

The reason the Force chose Jean was because of the stipulation,
That is, Jean being in the right place at the right time.
The Force had a taste of what it was to be "Human" through Feron,
it was separated in a harsh manner from Feron while Necron struggled to take over the PF.

Anyway, it (PF) was basically in the Universe, host-less,
yearning to feel what it did again (being Human)
so while Jean was in a ship in space about to die, the Force nearby sensed her,
and looked into her heart/mind, saw her relationship with Scott, her friends,
and life,
and decided this was the perfect candidate because of these reasons.
The Force kept the real Jean hidden,
while it created an exact copy of Jean down to her emotions.

So in truth,
the first representation of Jean/Phoenix wasn't even Jean,
it was a clone.

Again, the Force could've easily found that story anywhere else,
but it just so happens that Jean was in this ship, in space and the rest is an X-Men story.

I'm paraphrasing btw, so don't quote me good friend, but I know I'm on point.
..................................

Now, that's the original historical tale,
this apparently has been altered somewhat.

Cause now we understand that the Force chose Jean in order to sort of cheat it's own demise,
because it's not just Eternity and the LT that will become insignificant,
the Phoenix Force as well
will have no purpose in this new "heaven" filled with "Gods" made of Mankind.

So the Force, in order to escape this ultimate end,
bonded with Jean, an Omega Mutant,
to continue existing into the next evolution where abstracts will be irrelevant.

So I agree with you Cresh,
because it coincides with this new revelation. 👆

but originally, that was not the case up until 2001 in X-Men Forever.

Originally posted by leonidas

i still don't like the idea that they evolve to become 'eternities'.

did OUR eternity evolve from an omega in a previous universe?
do 'eternities' and other abstracts arise in different ways?

Mankind will be Gods, and an infinity will be at their command,
the concepts of reality will exist according to Mankind.

(I'm paraphrasing, but that's basically the tale according to X-Men Forever)

Originally posted by Mr Master
My bad, I told Cresh I didn't mean Eternities exactly,
but actually greater than Eternity,
even greater than the LT.

Mankind will be Gods, and an infinity will be at their command,
the concepts of reality will exist according to Mankind.

(I'm paraphrasing, but that's basically the tale according to X-Men Forever)

In other words, I wouldn't worry too much about not being more specific.

someone say feron?

Originally posted by Lord Feron
someone say feron?

Originally posted by Creshosk

Well Eternities was just an example.
Kinda akward to just say they'd evolve into gods,
because in the MU there's beings greater than gods.

"Gods" in the sense that they have or could have control over all creation,
like the Alien Entity, hom/Wanda, Eternity/Infinity (in some respects) and others of the like,
or sources of power that grant this type of Godhood like, the IG, CCU and the like.

THOTI was the ultimate representation of Godhood.

If I had to use a reference as to what Mankind's destiny will be like,
I'd say they each end up with a HOTI-type status,
withIN their own private infinite amount of space to do with as they wish.

Originally posted by Creshosk

but the sentiment is basically the same right?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Only Toaa/god and the LT are above "Gods" now.

"Gods" in the sense that they have or could have control over all creation,
like the Alien Entity, hom/Wanda, Eternity/Infinity (in some respects) and others of the like,
or sources of power that grant this type of Godhood like, the IG, CCU and the like.

THOTI was the ultimate representation of Godhood.

If I had to use a reference as to what Mankind's destiny will be like,
I'd say they each end up with a HOTI-type status,
withIN their own private infinite amount of space to do with as they wish.

Basically. 👆

Originally posted by Mr Master
My bad, I told Cresh I didn't mean Eternities exactly,
but actually greater than Eternity,
even greater than the LT.

Mankind will be Gods, and an infinity will be at their command,
the concepts of reality will exist according to Mankind.

(I'm paraphrasing, but that's basically the tale according to X-Men Forever)

no worries. i'd been using abstract interchangeably and eternity as example. i couldn't remember the exact . . . 'thing' we were supposed to become, but it appears you've cleared it up anyway. 😉

Terrax ftw...

i really dont like the whole "magic is just another form of energy i can manipulate" thing.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
i really dont like the whole "magic is just another form of energy i can manipulate" thing.

Seconded =/

Originally posted by Sin I AM
i really dont like the whole "magic is just another form of energy i can manipulate" thing.

Thirded :/

Originally posted by Sin I AM
i really dont like the whole "magic is just another form of energy i can manipulate" thing.

Vulcan hater!

Didn't Wanda and Cython call it "Chaos Energy"? Dark Beast has also described magic as manipulation on a quantum scale (Scan is somewhere in the Magneto Respect Thread).