Originally posted by darthgoober
Cap isn't a bullet that once sidestepped is absolutely harmless. Yes Spiderman's Spider Sense will detect Cap's attack and yes he'll move to dodge, but if Cap alters the course of his punch to match the course of Spidey's evasion it's still going to hit.
Not so true, because that's where Spidey's speed and reflexes into play.
Originally posted by Marvelknight
Spidey also has feats that prove otherwise.
Originally posted by darthgoober
If you only pay attention to his high end then sure, but I'm talking about the average portrayal of both characters. Of course if we only use high end feats then we have to ignore Cap's low showings too and just use HIS high end feats, making his victories over Spidey and kind the valid portrayal of the character. So even if we completely ignore both characters low end showings Cap STILL has what it takes to put Pete down.
You are just talking about dodging. If you compare all of their high end feats, from dodging to everything else that they do. Cap loses.
Originally posted by jinzinBendis wrote for the MTV's version of Spiderman. Canon or not, the video games and cartoons show that most think Spidey is much faster than Cap. The moment I see cap moving his body (not leaning) out of the way of a bullet already in the air is the day I say his speed is close to Spidey's.
lol So now you know more about what draws these people to their conclusion than they do.. Of course you do...I'm quite positive there's an unopen bottle of perscription pills in your cabinet your doctor should know about.
Exactly none of this has to do with their speed. Since we use 616 canon material here.
Keep telling yourself that.
WTF are you smoking Bendis didn't write the Spidey cartoon
Common sense to you... Not to people who know what they're talking about.
Look, it's common sense that even if Spiderman could determine the path of a bullet as it's fired, that he shouldn't be able to move fast enough to evade it anyway.
The only reason why I even bring up examples of Cap dodging or seeing bullets in slow motion is to debunk the notion that Spiderman has any sort of advantage.. he doesn't.
If Cap can see bullets in slow motion Spiderman would look like a statue to him too.. but whatever you need to tell yourself to support your own delusional bias I suppose.
Originally posted by h1a8
Bendis wrote for the MTV's version of Spiderman. Canon or not, the video games and cartoons show that most think Spidey is much faster than Cap. The moment I see cap moving his body (not leaning) out of the way of a bullet already in the air is the day I say his speed is close to Spidey's.
Or the day I see CA bouncing around back and forth like a blur is the day I say his speed is close to Spidey's. I don't think that CA is as fast as beast. And I definitely think Spider-man is faster than beast.
👆
Originally posted by darthgooberThat scan doesn't show a non arguable path of the shield. The scan is bogus. It isn't even clear what order cap has moved, or the shield.
Now you're just reaching. The shields travel path is clearly depicted and there's absolutely NO indication that the shield spent any time "bouncing around".
True. I'm just saying SM is clearly faster than CA.
That's not the way things work in comics because characters move faster when they're leaping/flipping, that's why the Hulk can jump and Spiderman bounces around foes at far faster speeds than either are capable of running.
0 mph. This is because the rocket is at rest. But I was fibbing a little. I probably can't do that feat due to lack of speed, reflexes, and jumping ability I possess. The feat was indeed impressive. CA did need good speed and reflexes to do that feat but it is not as impressive as if it was a bullet.
So you're some kind of expert on rockets? So what is the average starting speed of a rocket "like that"?
So how fast do you think CA can leap out of the way in mph. Give me a rough guess based off what you've seen.He was referring to REALLY classic Quicksilver, so it's not as bad a comparison as it seems. And I don't think that he's anywhere near even classic Quicksilver's travel speed, but it could be argued that the speed they typically hit in combat is comparable. Not equal mind you, but somewhere in the same ballpark(since Cap's tagged AND dodged Quicksilver in the past).
I don't see that from the scan. The scan starts with already dodging from the very beginning. How do we know he didn't start moving evasively before the shots? Or moving evasively after the first shots missed? If one moves evasively, avoiding the aim, then naturally they will dodge both front and back fire. Look at the movie Equilibrium.Because the bullets were coming from behind him while he was focused on dodging fire from the front so he couldn't have known when they were going to fire.
That spear was inches away while Cap was still breaking free, I think it's safe to say he could do it to a bullet if the distance was greater(since we know he'll see it in flight).
I agree. Again I wasn't quite arguing that CA can dodge a bullet after the fire. I'm just saying that he hasn't done it the way Spidey does it. CA more or less leans (which is still awesome). I'm just saying that Spidey is at least twice as fast as cap which is more than enough for the advantage in that area.
Tell you what, go ahead and stand up where you are. Done? Ok now swing your torso to one side as fast as you possibly can. Done now? Ok now I doubt that you have anyone around that happens to have a radar gun handy but I can almost guarantee that if you really did it as fast as possible, you just moved a large portion of your body at a faster speed than you can run on foot.
Also if both can see each other in super slow motion (like statues) then even if Spidey didn't have spider sense he shouldn't be able to get hit. How can one get hit by a punch that doesn't seem like it's moving? So this fight is at least a stalemate for SM. Do you agree?
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Please read the scans properly and stop exaggerating.I'll have to find it used to be part of the Captain America respect thread on herochat. The one at present has those scans missing so I might not be able to get it.
Im thinking though I should not even bother since you cant even analyse the scans at present correctly.
There was nothing to analyze. Cap blocked Spiderman's punches with his shield then Spiderman let his guard down and Cap punched him. 😐
I don't see how I was exaggerating, seeing as I described exactly what happened in the picture, maybe you don't have a grasp of the English langauge, in which case I understand your confusion.
Can Cap catch a bullet? Spidey can.
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/9141/scan00137vb.jpg
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/650/scan00143de.jpg
Spidey's superior reflexes.
http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spydvsquicksilver1b0yd.jpg
Dodging multiple blast from Iron Man.
http://img526.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dodge2rz5.jpg
Dodging automatic machine gun fire from at least 4 henchmen.
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/6386/1534uv.jpg
Spider-Man vs. Venom
http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=venom01615ld8.jpg
http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=venom01616lx2.jpg
http://img245.imageshack.us/my.php?image=venom01617mn6.jpg
http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=venom01618od4.jpg
Originally posted by Marvelknight
Can Cap catch a bullet? Spidey can.http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/9141/scan00137vb.jpg
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/650/scan00143de.jpgSpidey's superior reflexes.
http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spydvsquicksilver1b0yd.jpgDodging multiple blast from Iron Man.
http://img526.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dodge2rz5.jpgDodging automatic machine gun fire from at least 4 henchmen.
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/6386/1534uv.jpgSpider-Man vs. Venom
http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=venom01615ld8.jpg
http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=venom01616lx2.jpg
http://img245.imageshack.us/my.php?image=venom01617mn6.jpg
http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=venom01618od4.jpg
LOL like those mean anything. Anyone can post speed feats.
Cap goes through a training in 5 minutes. This same training was designed for Beast.
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/159/avengersv125102on2.jpg
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/4717/avengersv125103fa8.jpg
http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/9783/avengersv125104nx7.jpg
http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/891/avengersv125105dg7.jpg
Cap keeps up with Beast.
http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/6199/captainamerica261p07ht8.jpg
Cap grabs the fast Puma in mid-leap.
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/1088/avengersv130421rv5.jpg
An atleantean can't keep up with Cap.
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/7503/captainamericavol411p07ae7.jpg
Cap caught up with the Mystical Superhuman Black crow as he reaches quickly the top.
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/9424/captainamerica292p18ht0.jpg
Cap runs through before Nazis can do anything.
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5/captainamerica0535ud9.jpg
This entire army can't even scratch Cap, as Cap even escaped the explosions leaving them in the dust.
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/1084/captainamerica454p18andku4.jpg
http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/5515/captainamerica454p20cy6.jpg
Cap avoids tons of stars from a being that got the upperhand on the SilverSurfer.
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/6587/avengers21615vf7.jpg
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/4285/avengers21616aj4.jpg
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/8559/avengers21617cp4.jpg
Typical Cap blocking a energy beam aimed at his upper body.
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/3733/avengersv103202rg7.jpg
Dodging beams.
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/1327/captainamerica35119uw4.jpg
Cap rolls with a energy beam.
http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/2041/captainamerica26717uk6.jpg
Cap dodging beams while falling.
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/4413/captainamerica26604ff3.jpg
Cap with metal glove blocks random energy beams, definitely fast hand speed.
http://img474.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengers17004yb3.jpg
Cap dodges beams unders zero gravity.
http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengersv123516rougherpv4.jpg
http://img421.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengersv123518rougherbg7.jpg
Cap blocks mulitple beams in different areas.
http://img458.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengersv300506mm5.jpg
Again blocks mulitiple beams in different areas.
http://img475.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengersv300807tk8.jpg
Cap trapped in a floor designed to spin with beams coming from all direction.
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/6793/avengersv103217or6.jpg
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/4910/avengersv103218yi9.jpg
Cap in volume 3 dodging beams again.
http://img169.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericav303913jt7.jpg
These scans above and yours don't really matter.
Seriously Marvel Knight you can show whatever speed feat you want of Spiderman. But in the fights Spiderman cannot blitz Cap, so its moot even with Parker being faster. As I see you ignore there actual fights.
No I didn't lie. Cap did not "win" but he did have the advantage. Your just in denial is all. 🙂
Originally posted by h1a8
You're a chicken. I will definitely argue the both ways argument with you. I just need you to first agree that Spidey will see CA as a statue.
Don't be a chicken and try to avoid the question. Just have patience. We will discuss the other way around soon.
no it either both or none.
how does that make me a chicken? your logic is flawed.
you want me to agree that spiderman see's capt as a statue, becuases he see's bullets in slow motion.
however you do not want to agree that capt would see spiderman as a statue, becuases he see's bullets in slow motion.
your allowing was persons abilities to be allow, but not anothers.
Originally posted by Marvelknight
You are just talking about dodging. If you compare all of their high end feats, from dodging to everything else that they do. Cap loses.
