Spider-Man vs. Captain America h2h only

Originally posted by BUSTER1
But comics are INCONSISTENT over the years.

Read a Captain America comic for godsake.

Originally posted by BUSTER1

Spiderman can get Beat by two cheap hired crooks in 1 comic, but beat a cosmically powered herald in another.

What the hell has that got to do with Spiderman CONSISTENTLY having trouble with top-tier martial artists?

Originally posted by BUSTER1

The Hulk is shown to withstand buildings falling on him and sizeable explosions with no injury, but then he is shown, in Spiderman's recollection, to be knocked out by a handful of punches from Captain America.

Do you know that Cap has briefly stunned a more powerful version of the Hulk and has hit Hulk so hard he had to let go off him. Cap can KO the hulk hes shown that he can do it.

Originally posted by DaSlimShady
I see. Now, I hate comics even more... Cap just HAVE to be overpowered. There is evidence that Cap is at least class 2, too, having knocked down Hulk.

What? Cap cant KO Hulk with brute strength.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Read a Captain America comic for godsake.

What the hell has that got to do with Spiderman CONSISTENTLY having trouble with top-tier martial artists.

Do you know that Cap has briefly stunned a more powerful version of the Hulk and has hit Hulk so hard he had to let go off him. Cap can KO the hulk hes shown that he can do it.

What? Cap cant KO Hulk with brute strength.

In Ultimates, Cap punched Hulk in the face and Hulk flew backwards.

Originally posted by DaSlimShady
One thing I don't get is... Do we now assume Cap is as fast as Spider-Man is...?

Well spiderman did admit on panel that wolverine was faster and I consider wolverine and cap as equals (even though I know that spiderman is a tad bit more faster then both). What you fail to realize is that cap see bullets in slow motion also. What you fail to realize is that cap has slapped and tagged bullets out of the air also. What you fail to realize is that people weaker then cap has caused spiderman some damage.

Spiderman his entire career has had trouble with high end martial artist because they basically know how to circle around his spider sense. They are tactical fighters and majority of them have speed feats that rivals spiderman. Spiderman speed is pointless in this battle because again cap has repeated or done almost everything that spiderman has done and he might did it better. Compared to cap, spiderman is young and inexperienced but compared to someone like rhino or even thing spiderman has a better chance due to spiderman powers being based around fighting bricks. I agree, spiderman would make this a great fight but I see no way in hell how he'll get a majority over someone that can basically read your body and predict your move and can basically counter almost everything that you do. Thats why everyone dread fighting cap. If you put cap and spiderman side by side and you asked wolverine, sabertooth, task master, deadpool, iron fist, black panther who they would prefer to fight out of the two, trust me 100% of them would choose spiderman in a instant because he doesnt compare to cap when it comes to fighting.

Originally posted by DaSlimShady
In Ultimates, Cap punched Hulk in the face and Hulk flew backwards.

MY god is this some sort of joke? Ultimate Cap is a different Cap to 616 Cap. We are talking about 616 Cap.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
But comics are INCONSISTENT over the years. Spiderman can get Beat by two cheap hired crooks in 1 comic, but beat a cosmically powered herald in another. The Hulk is shown to withstand buildings falling on him and sizeable explosions with no injury, but then he is shown, in Spiderman's recollection, to be knocked out by a handful of punches from Captain America.

You just pretty much said what we have been trying to tell you whether you realize it or not. Comics can sometimes be very inconsistent therefore we must find the consistency.

We all know spiderman should not lose to random thugs, and we also know spiderman shouldn't beat herald level characters.

The consistency that is spiderman is as follows: he will have amazingly close battles with various low/mid level superhumans with mild powers and abilities whom most of the time have little to no fighting ability; and will more often then not lose in H2H combat with high tier martial artist with a worlds worth of fighting ability whose physical abilities dance back and forth across the line Olympic/peak human and superhuman.

That is the consistency of spiderman whether you like it or not.

That changes my point of view. Cap wins without any trouble.

Originally posted by DaSlimShady
That changes my point of view. Cap wins without any trouble.

Well ok thats going a bit too far. Cap wins but he is bound to have trouble.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
You just pretty much said what we have been trying to tell you whether you realize it or not. Comics can sometimes be very inconsistent therefore we must find the consistency.

We all know spiderman should not lose to random thugs, and we also know spiderman shouldn't beat herald level characters.

The consistency that is spiderman is as follows: he will have amazingly close battles with various low/mid level superhumans with mild powers and abilities whom most of the time have little to no fighting ability; and will more often then not lose in H2H combat with high tier martial artist with a worlds worth of fighting ability whose physical abilities dance back and forth across the line Olympic/peak human and superhuman.

That is the consistency of spiderman whether you like it or not.

So you're saying Spidermans inconsistent showings are consistency.

Originally posted by h1a8
It's amazing how fanboys use words like 'jog' to exaggerated a feat. I don't believe CA can even run 60 mph. Personally I think its BS. But 'jog' is just plain ridiculous. Stop reaching okay

You know what, considering that Cap kept that speed for a minute yes it could be compared to jogging.

Jogging speed has been said to be about 5 mph, the maximum a human has run is just under (6X5)30 mph, also the speed that boxers can punch has been registered around 32 mph and maybe 40 for Bruce Lee.

Therefore Caps punching speed would be many times 60 mph (could multiply that 6 times and get 360 mph) and since some bullets have been registered would not be far off or maybe even to have the speed of 400 mph Caps punching speed would probably rival that. Hell Cap has been able to punch Quicksilver before so yeah he can punch with the speed of a bullet.

To be quite frank some top tier martial artits can probably rival speedster speed in short bursts.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
So you're saying Spidermans inconsistent showings are consistency.

Uhhhhhhh.......you are talking about inconsistency. The whole point hes trying to make is that Spiderman has CONSISTENTLY had trouble with top tier martial artists.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You know what, considering that Cap kept that speed for a minute yes it could be compared to jogging.

Jogging speed has been said to be about 5 mph, the maximum a human has run is just under 30 mph, also the speed that boxers can punch has been registered around 32 mph and maybe 40 for Bruce Lee.

Therefore Caps punching speed would be many times 60 mph and since some bullets have been registered to have the speed of 400 mph Caps punching speed would not be far off or maybe even rival that.

To be quite frank some top tier martial artits can probably rival speedster speed in short bursts.

Uhhhhhhh.......you are talking about inconsistency. The whole point he trying to make is that Spiderman has CONSISTENTLY had trouble with top tier martial artists.

But this is inconsistency as the street level martial artists who give Spidey trouble in comics, are nowhere near the level of superhuman's who Spidey has beat.

My bad this bit

Therefore Caps punching speed would be many times 60 mph (could multiply that 6 times and get 360 mph) and since some bullets have been registered would not be far off or maybe even to have the speed of 400 mph Caps punching speed would probably rival that. Hell Cap has been able to punch Quicksilver before so yeah he can punch with the speed of a bullet.

should say

Therefore Caps punching speed would be many times 60 mph (could multiply that 6 times and get 360 mph) and since some bullets have been registered around 400 mph Caps punching speed would probably rival that. Hell Cap has been able to punch Quicksilver before so yeah he can punch with the speed of a bullet.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
But this is inconsistency as the street level martial artists who give Spidey trouble in comics, are nowhere near the level of superhuman's who Spidey has beat.

Yes they are in terms of speed, bare in mind sometimes Spiderman has to use his head to beat some of the superhumans. Cap has beaten Spiderman villains.

Hell Shang Chi dodged bullets from a hand gun at point blank range AFTER they were fired.

http://img5.imageshack.us/my.php?image=masterofkungfu03076le.jpg

Less impressive but thats him dodging bullets again. Hell Shang Chi isnt even as good as Cap.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1202/shangreddragon4tl6.jpg

Heres Shang Chi moving so fast SHIELD agents cant react

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/shangchivsgunmen.jpg

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well ok thats going a bit too far. Cap wins but he is bound to have trouble.

Not really. If they have even speed, then Spider-Man won't be able to lay a hand on Cap. Spider-Man's strenght won't matter if he can't hit before he is knocked out by a combo that would make even Bruce Lee jealous.

Originally posted by carver9
Well spiderman did admit on panel that wolverine was faster and I consider wolverine and cap as equals (even though I know that spiderman is a tad bit more faster then both). What you fail to realize is that cap see bullets in slow motion also. What you fail to realize is that cap has slapped and tagged bullets out of the air also. What you fail to realize is that people weaker then cap has caused spiderman some damage.

Spiderman his entire career has had trouble with high end martial artist because they basically know how to circle around his spider sense. They are tactical fighters and majority of them have speed feats that rivals spiderman. Spiderman speed is pointless in this battle because again cap has repeated or done almost everything that spiderman has done and he might did it better. Compared to cap, spiderman is young and inexperienced but compared to someone like rhino or even thing spiderman has a better chance due to spiderman powers being based around fighting bricks. I agree, spiderman would make this a great fight but I see no way in hell how he'll get a majority over someone that can basically read your body and predict your move and can basically counter almost everything that you do. Thats why everyone dread fighting cap. If you put cap and spiderman side by side and you asked wolverine, sabertooth, task master, deadpool, iron fist, black panther who they would prefer to fight out of the two, trust me 100% of them would choose spiderman in a instant because he doesnt compare to cap when it comes to fighting.

How the hell can these fighters 'circle' around Spiderman's Spidersense. It alerts him to any danger and even helps to guide his movements. As for experience,Spiderman is highly experienced. Cap has much better h2h skills true, but Spidey knows how to fight. If Spiderman was brought down to Caps level of raw power, strength, speed and agility wise he would get womped- but his greater speed, Spidersense (which can't be tricked like you say it can) and massive strength (x25) advantage make a fight between them a different story

Originally posted by BUSTER1
How the hell can these fighters 'circle' around Spiderman's Spidersense. It alerts him to any danger and even helps to guide his movements.

It doesnt warn of everything and sometimes even if it did he cant always react fast enough to do anything. For example if Spiderman has thrown a punch and is fighting somebody of similar reflexes there is nothing he can do if his punch gets countered with another move.

His SS can warn him to duck a punch but if a superior H2H fighter with similar reflexes tricks him into ducking and follows it with an uppercut Spiderman would not be able to doge that either, even if his SS warns him it would be too late because he has already ducked and the punch would have already landed.

It would be different if the opponent is much slower his SS would warn him and his reflexes would give him time to react.

Originally posted by Starscream M
thank you....for doing my work for me. I no longer need to prove your lack of credibility. You've lost any credibility on Spiderman.

Daredevil is a peak human level agility....SPiderman has metahuman super agility. The fact that you underestimate his agility so much makes me suspicous that you don't read spiderman books at all.

Pshyeaaahhh right! I probably own more Spiderman comics than you've read multiple companies and characters combined...

Look I already told you I don't follow you in suit with yourself, I actually read the comics of the characters I'm debating. Which is why I'm more than aware of the dozen or so times that Spiderman and Daredevil have been side by side and the 7 to 8 times they've been at eachothers throats. All showings displaying both characters with similar styles and feats of agility to avoid the sources of oncoming danger.
I mean, even Taskmaster can replicate Spiderman feats of agility with fairly little effort; clearly his agility doesn't outstrip top tier people like Murdock and Rogers, his strength does.

There's no underestimation there, and if you read Cap comics, or DD comics you would already be more than well aware of that.

What I find funny is how you try to use his agility like it's some sort of an advantage in a fight. It isn't. What does his agility do for him besides get him put into positions he can't get out of?
Because there's multitudes of examples where his agility does nothing more with streeters but get him into trouble. Getting caught leaping in midair by Black Panther and having his head rammed through a desk and floorboards, trying to use acrobatics around Redskull and nailed in the solar plexus, getting stabbed trying to jump away from Wolverine.
Lol, his fight with Cap is a primary example of this, "While I'm still in midair before I can turn around", BAM he gets hit in the back. His agility, like his Spider Sense is something that plays against him in h2h combat with high ranking street levels, it's one of the foremost reasons he gets hit in the first place, and it's what basically makes him a sitting duck to guys who read and lead their opponents with timed striking.

Then we've got this ridiculous notion that Spiderman's a good deal faster than Cap. The only reason anyone even says that he's faster at all is because it makes the most sense with him being a clear-cut superhuman and his feats of speed are more numerous. When you look at feat by feat comparisons however. While they may be more numerous, they aren't more impressive. I have no problems saying Spiderman's marginally faster, but he isn't fast enough to a degree that would make any discernable difference in a fight with Cap.

The bare balls of the matter is this: Spiderman's only real advantage that he brings to the fight is his strength. At base level in h2h, Spiderman's really just a very impressive looking reactive fighter. His powers of SS and agility are only used to their best with Spiderman when he has something to react to. Against a man who's experience and natural talent for fighting make him one of if not the best h2h fighter on Marvel Earth, against a man who's strategic brilliance will immediately be setting up strategies to use Spiderman's strengths against him, being a reactive fighter is possibly the worst thing Spiderman could be here.

This entire discussion reminds me of something Merc once told me; When it comes to Spiderman vs. threads it's often that the opposing side will come up with evidence, proof, strategies and reasons for that side to win where as Spiderman fans/supporters will simply state Spiderman's powers as if that's enough.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
You just pretty much said what we have been trying to tell you whether you realize it or not. Comics can sometimes be very inconsistent therefore we must find the consistency.

We all know spiderman should not lose to random thugs, and we also know spiderman shouldn't beat herald level characters.

The consistency that is spiderman is as follows: he will have amazingly close battles with various low/mid level superhumans with mild powers and abilities whom most of the time have little to no fighting ability; and will more often then not lose in H2H combat with high tier martial artist with a worlds worth of fighting ability whose physical abilities dance back and forth across the line Olympic/peak human and superhuman.

That is the consistency of spiderman whether you like it or not.

QFTmuthafuc*inTRUTH!

Originally posted by jinzin
Against a man who's experience and natural talent for fighting make him one of if not the best h2h fighter on Marvel Earth, against a man who's strategic brilliance will immediately be setting up strategies to use Spiderman's strengths against him, being a reactive fighter is possibly the worst thing Spiderman could be here.

stop the capt worship...do you wank whoever is pitted against Spiderman, cuz I remember you saying Wolverine is the best fighter, but now Capt is? what's next, dd?

also, we spidey supporters don't just rely on powersets...we also rely on commonsense

Spiderman's solo rogues include venom, carnage, morlun, etc...beings that Capt would be lucky to last more than a few minutes against

Capt's solo rogues include jokes like nuke and red skull

so please don't tell me capt is more impressive than Spiderman

Originally posted by Starscream M
stop the capt worship...do you wank whoever is pitted against Spiderman, cuz I remember you saying Wolverine is the best fighter, but now Capt is? what's next, dd?

Yeah, stated what Cap is and does is wanking right? How pathetic. You've got people stating that Spiderman is going to do things in this thread that he's NEVER done before, making up powers for him, mking up advantages. But I come in here with the opinion that Cap can take Spiderman in h2h with evidence to support why and all you can come up with is "stop the Cap worship"...

Right.

Originally posted by Starscream M
also, we spidey supporters don't just rely on powersets...we also rely on commonsense

Originally posted by Starscream M
Spiderman's solo rogues include venom, carnage, morlun, etc...

he needs plot devices out the ass to beat them.

Morlun? He RAILED through Spiderman. Once again beaten by plot devices.
And he's only showed up 3 times.. I don't know if that qualifies as an official rogue.

Originally posted by Starscream M
beings that Capt would be lucky to last more than a few minutes against

You're talking about a guy who beat Thor, Wrecker (without his shield after being tortured), Iron Man, Namor, and a Namor Clone just off the top of my head.
Don't go running around making wild half assed claims like that with nothing to back them up.

Originally posted by Starscream M
Capt's solo rogues include jokes like nuke and red skull

Red Skull, he's humiliated Spiderman in h2h as well. And lasted far longer against Black Panther than Spiderman ever managed. Hell, he's stalemated Cap in h2h before. has Spidey? No...
Yeah what a joke. Read a comic.

Originally posted by Starscream M
so please don't tell me capt is more impressive than Spiderman

Fact of the matter is that Cap has done far more impressively than Spiderman has against the same enemies and against eachother.. you've got your bias and that's it.

Originally posted by DaSlimShady
In Ultimates, Cap punched Hulk in the face and Hulk flew backwards.

This isn't on topic but no that didn't happen either. U.Cap took advantage of a weakened Hulk who got hurt bad from Ironman. As U.Cap only put him down for one panel and for a couple of seconds.

Originally posted by Starscream M
stop the capt worship...do you wank whoever is pitted against Spiderman, cuz I remember you saying Wolverine is the best fighter, but now Capt is? what's next, dd?

also, we spidey supporters don't just rely on powersets...we also rely on commonsense

Spiderman's solo rogues include venom, carnage, morlun, etc...beings that Capt would be lucky to last more than a few minutes against

Capt's solo rogues include jokes like nuke and red skull

so please don't tell me capt is more impressive than Spiderman

I dunno man but arent these guys Spiderman villains.

Originally posted by jinzin

Cap discusses how Hobgoblin and Lady Doctor Octopus jumped Steve at his house, and how he sent them retreating by himself:
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/8553/hobbyandladyockbt7.jpg

Oh yeah Cap has beaten Doctor Octopus and on another ocassion he beat Scorpion and Mr Hyde at the same time.

Starscream you are disgracing yourself.