Spider-Man vs. Captain America h2h only

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
And here is your answer.

"Character Induced Stupidity, or CIS, on the other hand, refers to any natural mental limitations that characters impose upon themselves and reduce their ability to use their own skills and powers effectively. Unlike PIS, CIS does not occur because the plot requires it, but because the character is genuinely that dumb. Examples of the CIS-afflicted include characters such as Rhino or Jar Jar Binks. Events of CIS are not exempt from debates. ."

How else would you explain Wolverine being able to keep up with spiderman in an open space like a cemetary? Spiderman beat Firelord into unconciousness... Firelord can dodge a meteor storm while flying at mach speeds.

Are you even hearing your logic. There was a lot of PIS, CIS and even AIS(artist induced Stupidy for that). Which made it somewhat plausible. Firelord was weakened due to destroying a planetoid as he stated he wanted to rest on earth. Firelord even stated he was holding back a lot and could have incinerated the area but chose not too.

Its like me bringing up a feat of Cap hurting and making bleed a watered down Onslaught.

Originally posted by Starscream M
actually he is faster than cap

there is a scan where he moves across a room full of shield trained agents so fast they could barely see him

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

Starscream you are disgracing yourself.

I should just blow your mind and create a punisher vs captain america thread...then you won't know who to worship more 😎

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I dunno man but arent these guys Spiderman villains.

Oh yeah Cap has beaten Doctor Octopus and on another ocassion he beat Scorpion and Mr Hyde at the same time.

Starscream you are disgracing yourself.

Starscream isn't discacing himself- Cap shouldn't defeat Scorpion and Mr. hyde at the same time, without a major power up

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Read a Captain America comic for godsake.

What the hell has that got to do with Spiderman CONSISTENTLY having trouble with top-tier martial artists?

Do you know that Cap has briefly stunned a more powerful version of the Hulk and has hit Hulk so hard he had to let go off him. Cap can KO the hulk hes shown that he can do it.

What? Cap cant KO Hulk with brute strength.

Cap is a character I admire -but no way should he be able to knockout Hulk-that is total PIS-as is the fight where Spiderman KO's Hulk with the truck. Then again that is canon-like Spidey beating up Firelord -tell me, is Cap's victory more valid than SP v Fl -and if so why??

Originally posted by Starscream M
oh gimme a break...you're one of the biggest captain america wankers on this board so its no surprise coming from you

I should just blow your mind and create a punisher vs captain america thread...then you won't know who to worship more 😎

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He wins everytime? You guys sure about that? Then people wonder why I say people dont know Punisher.

Cap 8/10

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Are you even hearing your logic. There was a lot of PIS, CIS and even AIS(artist induced Stupidy for that). Which made it somewhat plausible. Firelord was weakened due to destroying a planetoid as he stated he wanted to rest on earth. Firelord even stated he was holding back a lot and could have incinerated the area but chose not too.

Its like me bringing up a feat of Cap hurting and making bleed a watered down Onslaught.

That's just it, there is no "logic" to this kind of argument.

Firelord travels at light speed; At that speed he's able to negotiate through meteors, astroid belts and against light speed attacks.

Spiderman taking him down by bewildering him with speed is a suitable argument.

Spiderman's a street level superhuman who regularly engages in battle with other superhumans and in spite of his powers still gets hit, still has trouble saving people in time etc etc.

Yet, Cap taking a fight to him with almost identical speed feats to back that notion up is nothing more than PIS/CIS/Popularity (but only for Cap, not Spidey, he's not popular) driven/Uncharacteristic tomfoolery!

Originally posted by CaptainStoic

How else would you explain Wolverine being able to keep up with spiderman in an open space like a cemetary? Spiderman beat Firelord into unconciousness... Firelord can dodge a meteor storm while flying at mach speeds.

...........what?

How the hell is it CIS for Logan who also has superhuman reflex speed and combat speed to keep up with spiderman?

Not to mention Logan has comparable speed and reflex feats.

so in no way is it cis for Logan to keep up with spiderman.

Captain America beat Spiderman straight up in 'Civil War.' Even though Spidey was using his webs, Cap was using his shield. Indeed, in the up-close fights, Cap parried some of Spidey's blows with his shield.

I think that Cap is more handicapped then Spidey is in this thread. Cap has, numerous times, used his shield to create an advantage, using it as a distraction as in Wolverine Origins #4 & Amazing Spiderman #534 or by simply hiding behind it. And in the many times that Cap has gone H2H with opponents who have greater speed, agility, strength, stamina or durability, he's used his shield.

BTW, any argument of Cap not being able to beat Spiderman legitimately because of Parker's hero worship is irrelevant. Spiderman's awe of Captain America is still on in this fight as per forum rules. Same as would Captain America not resorting to fatal strikes against opponents, even though we all know he could. And if that sounds like an excuse for Cap fans: 1) That's the forum rules, unless otherwise stated; 2) arguing powersets without any characterization is pretty infantile. We love comic heroes and villains because of their character, not because of their powers. Otherwise, feats against clones, robot simulcra and mind-controlled characters are just as legitimate as if they were against the original character themselves.

I'm goin with a 5/10 split.

P.S. Daredevil1, I haven't seen a lot of those Cap scans that you posted way back on page 4. And I thought I knew my Captain America lore too. Mucho thanks.

Spider sense tingling fear I sense the evil presence of more Cap supporters. No matter, Spidey got this in the bagthumbup1

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Spider sense tingling fear I sense the evil presence of more Cap supporters. No matter, Spidey got this in the bagthumbup1

Originally posted by jinzin
Pshyeaaahhh right! I probably own more Spiderman comics than you've read multiple companies and characters combined...

Look I already told you I don't follow you in suit with yourself, I actually read the comics of the characters I'm debating. Which is why I'm more than aware of the dozen or so times that Spiderman and Daredevil have been side by side and the 7 to 8 times they've been at eachothers throats. All showings displaying both characters with similar styles and feats of agility to avoid the sources of oncoming danger.
I mean, even Taskmaster can replicate Spiderman feats of agility with fairly little effort; clearly his agility doesn't outstrip top tier people like Murdock and Rogers, his strength does.

There's no underestimation there, and if you read Cap comics, or DD comics you would already be more than well aware of that.

What I find funny is how you try to use his agility like it's some sort of an advantage in a fight. It isn't. What does his agility do for him besides get him put into positions he can't get out of?
Because there's multitudes of examples where his agility does nothing more with streeters but get him into trouble. Getting caught leaping in midair by Black Panther and having his head rammed through a desk and floorboards, trying to use acrobatics around Redskull and nailed in the solar plexus, getting stabbed trying to jump away from Wolverine.
Lol, his fight with Cap is a primary example of this, "While I'm still in midair before I can turn around", BAM he gets hit in the back. His agility, like his Spider Sense is something that plays against him in h2h combat with high ranking street levels, it's one of the foremost reasons he gets hit in the first place, and it's what basically makes him a sitting duck to guys who read and lead their opponents with timed striking.

Then we've got this ridiculous notion that Spiderman's a good deal faster than Cap. The only reason anyone even says that he's faster at all is because it makes the most sense with him being a clear-cut superhuman and his feats of speed are more numerous. When you look at feat by feat comparisons however. While they may be more numerous, they aren't more impressive. I have no problems saying Spiderman's marginally faster, but he isn't fast enough to a degree that would make any discernable difference in a fight with Cap.

The bare balls of the matter is this: Spiderman's only real advantage that he brings to the fight is his strength. At base level in h2h, Spiderman's really just a very impressive looking reactive fighter. His powers of SS and agility are only used to their best with Spiderman when he has something to react to. Against a man who's experience and natural talent for fighting make him one of if not the best h2h fighter on Marvel Earth, against a man who's strategic brilliance will immediately be setting up strategies to use Spiderman's strengths against him, being a reactive fighter is possibly the worst thing Spiderman could be here.

This entire discussion reminds me of something Merc once told me; When it comes to Spiderman vs. threads it's often that the opposing side will come up with evidence, proof, strategies and reasons for that side to win where as Spiderman fans/supporters will simply state Spiderman's powers as if that's enough.

Jinzin, this was a beautiful post. Very, very, very, very good job. I dont think anyone could have said it any better.

This whole thread is ****ing retarded, damn Cap wankers pulling out PIS theads as a means for him to take peter. Except it fanboys....cap loses, Pete is somply far more durable..faster..stronger and basically everything more then cap is.

Pro Cap people: You all act like Spidey has no speed, reflex, agility, combat feats.
Pro Spidey people: You act like Cap hasn't done well against stronger opponents.

I'm seeing a trend here with people who usually argue against Spidey clashing with people who usually argue against Cap. There are a few who have been warned in the past for your attitudes, language and behavior and some others who will be getting warnings if they don't stop.

Reopened....uhuh

Originally posted by Badabing
Pro Cap people: You all act like Spidey has no speed, reflex, agility, combat feats.
Pro Spidey people: You act like Cap hasn't done well against stronger opponents.

I'm seeing a trend here with people who usually argue against Spidey clashing with people who usually argue against Cap. There are a few who have been warned in the past for your attitudes, language and behavior and some others who will be getting warnings if they don't stop.

Originally posted by Badabing
Reopened....uhuh

Thanks Bada for reopening the thread, and I agree with you. I know that Cap has done well against stronger foes. But so has Spidey. And what you said before about Cap having a jobber aura has a superpower, I definitely agree with. In this scenario where Cap doesn't have his shield. I see it as a disadvantage that his fighting skills can only make up for, by only so much. Most of the superhuman foes Cap takes on, he uses his shield to block their blows or deflect it. Without it, I see Spidey taking the majority.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Thanks Bada for reopening the thread, and I agree with you. I know that Cap has done well against stronger foes. But so has Spidey. And what you said before about Cap having a jobber aura has a superpower, I definitely agree with. In this scenario where Cap doesn't have his shield. I see it as a disadvantage that his fighting skills can only make up for, by only so much. Most of the superhuman foes Cap takes on, he uses his shield to block their blows or deflect it. Without it, I see Spidey taking the majority.

Batman has the same aura as Cap. The difficulty lies in reconciling their on panel feats with a KMC battle. I mean Cap and Bats have laid out heralds and super-humans enough that it's within their abilities. So when does PIS become part of a power-set and character? But that doesn't always translate to what would happen on KMC. Honestly, I can see both sides of the debate and agree with most points. People can show scans that refute other scans until next Christmas without much progress. It's not a huge leap to say that Spidey had better speed, reflexes and agility but then there's always a scan of Cap or Bats doing something similar. But the main problem here is that it's not a comic book battle, it's a versus forum battle.

Also, this is a preemptive uhuh and durfist for anybody causing a problem.

Some here are saying that CA and Spidey's speed feats are similar.
But if one was to carefully analyze their best feats then he would determine that Spidey is at least twice as fast. For example, if both Flash and Classic Quicksiver dodges a bullet then their feat seems similar but we all know that Flash is much faster.

With that said, some are saying that since people in the panel claim that CA can see bullets in slow motion (by how much is really the question though) then CA can see Spidey in slow motion. But seeing in slow motion is ambiguous. For seeing something 10-50% slower results in seeing in slow motion as well as seeing something 97.5% slower.

Bottom line: Since Spidey can see bullets in 97.5% slow motion then he can definitely see CA in almost still motion. Also Spidey is at least twice as fast as CA since he moves more than twice the distance than CA in the same amount of time (CA barely leaning out of the way of a bullet vs. Spidey totally not being in the vicinity of the bullet).

So one has to come to the conclusion that CA wins 6 or more out of 10 is wrong since this is at least a stalemate for Spidey.

Originally posted by Badabing
You're welcome, it's a good thread.

Batman has the same aura as Cap. The difficulty lies in reconciling their on panel feats with a KMC battle. I mean Cap and Bats have laid out heralds and super-humans enough that it's within their abilities. So when does PIS become part of a power-set and character? But that doesn't always translate to what would happen on KMC. Honestly, I can see both sides of the debate and agree with most points. People can show scans that refute other scans until next Christmas without much progress. It's not a huge leap to say that Spidey had better speed, reflexes and agility but then there's always a scan of Cap or Bats doing something similar. But the main problem here is that it's not a comic book battle, it's a versus forum battle.

Also, this is a preemptive uhuh and durfist for anybody causing a problem.

You're right, that's very true. Comics can sometimes be inconstant and I would rather go by what's in their profiles on some occasions.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Comics can sometimes be inconstant and I would rather go by what's in their profiles on some occasions.