Spider-Man vs. Captain America h2h only

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Jinzin and Phantom-you are making my arguement for me. I have already said thet Spidey shouldn't beat Firelord-that fight was PIS. But he shouldn't lose to street levellers either. You state correctly that in the Firelord fight Firelord was written down. Spiderman is written down in a lot of stories, including ones where he faced off against Captain America.

Im not making your arguments Firelord is vastly superior to Spiderman in every aspect, Spiderman is only superior to Cap in strength by a big margin, but Caps massive skill advantage is enough to give him the majority.

You cant compare SvFL to SvCap that is absurd.

Originally posted by BUSTER1

As for Spiderman's own comments about Captain America, regarding his H2H skill, if you know anything about Spiderman, it is he reveres Cap and he tends to play down his own abilites

1. A robot clone of Spiderman that was stalemating Spiderman said the samething.
2. Cap has beaten Spiderman villains.

😐

Why is comparing Spidey vFL to Spidey v Cap absurd? Why are you of the opinion, that FL being beaten by Pete is FL being written down, but Parker having a low showing is acceptable.
You said Spidey's only noticeable advantage is his strength-what about his Spidersense??

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
SM is at least class 15, though I personally think class 25, faster, more durable, and has precog...How does Cap win?

Because the factors that would make the difference in this fight don't defect to strength alone? 😕

Originally posted by jinzin
Because the factors that would make the difference in this fight don't defect to strength alone? 😕

Dark-Jaxx didn't just mention Spidey's strength in that post, he also mentioned Spidey's speed and durability advantage, and Spidersense

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You get the point.

So were going to assume that every time that Spiderman has trouble with street levelers its PIS, despite the fact hes had trouble with street levelers for 100s of years?

Well if its a bit of an exaggeration [the 100s of years] its not really that good a point is it?

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Jinzin and Phantom-you are making my arguement for me. I have already said thet Spidey shouldn't beat Firelord-that fight was PIS. But he shouldn't lose to street levellers either.

Hmmmm... Not really. The difference between Spiderman and high end street levels is minimal. They're in the same league when it comes to what kinds of feats they have, what kind of enemies they take down, and what it takes to bring them down.

The difference between Spiderman and a friggin Herald of Galactus is absurdly and vastly monumental in comparison.

It's like the difference between two olympic runner; Gold and Silver place medal winners, one might be marginally better than the other but neither are as fast as a turbo jet which is what the difference between FL and SM is when you consider outright power.

Firelord shouldn't lose to Spiderman because he regularly competes at another level completely it's not even logical to compare him to streetwalking metahumans. Spiderman on the other hand has been in street level contests since his incarnation.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
You state correctly that in the Firelord fight Firelord was written down. Spiderman is written down in a lot of stories, including ones where he faced off against Captain America.

It's like comparing a baseball to a golfball, and then comparing the same baseball to a Hummer II and calling the comparative differences between them to be in the same range.. they aren't and are far from it.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
As for Spiderman's own comments about Captain America, regarding his H2H skill, if you know anything about Spiderman, it is he reveres Cap and he tends to play down his own abilites

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Why is comparing Spidey vFL to Spidey v Cap absurd? Why are you of the opinion, that FL being beaten by Pete is FL being written down, but Parker having a low showing is acceptable.
You said Spidey's only noticeable advantage is his strength-what about his Spidersense??

Originally posted by jinzin
What about it? Everyone from Wolverine, to Cap to Iron Fist to even Rogue are able to feel the shifts of pressure in the air and react to attacks accordingly. Spiderman's SS is an equalizer to his lack of formal training and developed abilities and he's admitted to that too.

Its more than equalizer, its a definite advantage. A sniper pulling a trigger from 30feet away doesn't create a shift in air pressure, but the fired bullet will. Spiderman's Spidersense will alert him to the danger as soon as a sniper takes his aim, before he even pulls the trigger. His vast experience (rememeber he has been Spiderman since he was in high school) is what makes up for his lack of formal training

Originally posted by Mindship
Yes, when you stated...
...I understood your point then, to which I replied you were exaggerating (with the "100s of years"😉, and you replied...
Basically, you shot down your own point, and I was just trying to clarify that (since I'm pretty sure that wasn't your intention).

Im not sure if I shot down my own point because when I said....

Well if its a bit of an exaggeration [the Spiderman having trouble with street levelers being PIS] its not really that good a point is it?

I thought when you said its a bit of an exaggeration that refered to Spiderman having trouble with street levelers is PIS. 😐

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Its more than equalizer, its a definite advantage. A sniper pulling a trigger from 30feet away doesn't create a shift in air pressure, but the fired bullet will. Spiderman's Spidersense will alert him to the danger as soon as a sniper takes his aim, before he even pulls the trigger. His vast experience (rememeber he has been Spiderman since he was in high school) is what makes up for his lack of formal training

Cap had already been through WW2 and was adept at every style known to man.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Its more than equalizer, its a definite advantage. A sniper pulling a trigger from 30feet away doesn't create a shift in air pressure, but the fired bullet will.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Spiderman's Spidersense will alert him to the danger as soon as a sniper takes his aim, before he even pulls the trigger.

And DD's senses allow him to do much the same in some scenarios. That doesn't mean that DD's reflexes and ability to cope with what's coming at him is also vastly superior to other street levels... It's compensation for things he doesn't have.

Spiderman's spider sense is an equalizer to Cap's experienced and honed awareness when it comes to a hand to hand competition and it's been repeatedly proven.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
His vast experience (rememeber he has been Spiderman since he was in high school) is what makes up for his lack of formal training

His experience is nice but it doesn't compensate for Cap's skill.
His S.S. is nice but it doesn't overshadow Cap's honed awareness and reflexes either. They have the same reflexive feats. They DON'T have the same feats of skill and h2h fighting application.

Originally posted by jinzin
It IS an equalizer when all it does is help Spiderman to acheive the same result as what Streeters like Cap, IF, and BP do on the regular without one.

And DD's senses allow him to do much the same in some scenarios. That doesn't mean that DD's reflexes and ability to cope with what's coming at him is also vastly superior to other street levels... It's compensation for things he doesn't have.

Spiderman's spider sense is an equalizer to Cap's experienced and honed awareness when it comes to a hand to hand competition and it's been repeatedly proven.

No it doesn't... If that was the case he wouldn't have trouble with the Enforcers 40 years into his career.. but guess what...

His experience is nice but it doesn't compensate for Cap's skill.
His S.S. is nice but it doesn't overshadow Cap's honed awareness and reflexes either. They have the same reflexive feats. They DON'T have the same feats of skill and h2h fighting application.

Spiderman is faster than Cap-I don't recall Cap being referred to as having reflexes 15 x better than human.
Spidersense> experinced honed awareness
add to this the fact that Spidey is vastly experienced at direct combat and I can't see how Cap can win

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Spiderman is faster than Cap-I don't recall Cap being referred to as having reflexes 15 x better than human.
Spidersense> experinced honed awareness
add to this the fact that Spidey is vastly experienced at direct combat and I can't see how Cap can win

You really need to read some Cap comics or go to the respect thread. If you knew anything about the character you would'nt be saying some of the stuf you are saying now. This is just basic stuff.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You really need to read some Cap comics or go to the respect thread. If you knew anything about the character you would'nt be saying some of the stuf you are saying now. This is just basic stuff.

Ihave read Cap comics and I've read plenty of Spiderman comics and I have seen both respect threads. The fact i disagree with you doesn't mean I know nothing of the characters. I'm basing my opinions on the considerable knowledge that I have of both characters

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Ihave read Cap comics and I've read plenty of Spiderman comics and I have seen both respect threads. The fact i disagree with you doesn't mean I know nothing of the characters. I'm basing my opinions on the considerable knowledge that I have of both characters

*shrug* Ok, anyway a robot clone of Spiderman said he could not take Cap in H2H.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
*shrug* Ok, anyway a robot clone of Spiderman said he could not take Cap in H2H.

But a robot clone ain't the same as the real deal

Originally posted by BUSTER1
But a robot clone ain't the same as the real deal

The fact it was stalemating Spiderman shows it was just like the real deal.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
The fact it was stalemating Spiderman shows it was just like the real deal.

That doen't mean any assessment it makes is entirely correct

Originally posted by BUSTER1
That doen't mean any assessment it makes is entirely correct

Let me break this down to you....the robot was a clone of Spiderman....if the robot cant take Cap in H2H that means most likely Spiderman cant either.

Also the fact it was stalemating Spiderman shows how close the clone was to being like Spiderman.

Cap wins the majority.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Spiderman is faster than Cap-I don't recall Cap being referred to as having reflexes 15 x better than human.
Spidersense> experinced honed awareness
add to this the fact that Spidey is vastly experienced at direct combat and I can't see how Cap can win

Agility.

15x Agility, not reflexes.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Spiderman is faster than Cap

You feel differently? Great! Why don't you do what 1,000 pages of arguing and hundreds of Spiderman fans and fanboys alike have failed to do and show EVIDENCE past the point of hyberbole that shows Spiderman being legitimately faster than any high class street level like Cap....

I haven't seen it done yet and I've argued with A LOT of Spidey fans.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
-I don't recall Cap being referred to as having reflexes 15 x better than human.

Hell even minimally trained MA's are faster than the average human being. some move so fast they can't be recorded on film.
Now multiply that by "peak human" or "enhanced human" and you're looking at one fast mofo.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
-Spidersense> experinced honed awareness

Originally posted by BUSTER1
add to this the fact that Spidey is vastly experienced at direct combat and I can't see how Cap can win