The kotor 2 triumvirate vs rots siddious

I'd firstly just like to make it quite clear that I am not Noscopever. I would never go back to the original topic (as it's already been established that Sidious gets owned), and I certainly wouldn't make references to Traya's talekinetic sabers (which I've personally never considered that remarkable a feat like some) or Nihilus killing a world by speaking (I'm not Violent2dope). Really, we don't even have the same writing style and if you'd look at his past posts, he's made points that I would never even come close to making, such as Dooku being stronger in the Force than Malak simply because he relies on it more. Really, I have no idea why anyone would think we were the same person.

And Lightsnake, didn't Bane like let three of them hit him with high powered Force Pikes, before he was aware of the effect electricity had on the orbalisks?

I'll take your word for not being Noscopever. You really don't seem very similar.

However, Nebaris, you've yet to answer my question; if Nick Gillard stated that Sidious is a poor lightsaber duelist, would you take his word as canon?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Ah yes Faunus the peacemaker I forgot,

I guess the most logical thing to do with Noobaris is to be the bigger man. That's worked out all of zero times.

Didn't think so.

The only way he disappears is if you constantly badger him.

The irony here is overwhelming.

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
And what bearing do you, Noscopever, have on this argument? Unless, of course, you're Nebaris.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
1. It is noted that Raskta manages to hold him at bay herself, even though she is empowered by Worror's battle meditation, she tells Farfalla to stay back as he's being more of a hindrance than a help.

2. Bane's advantage with the orbalisk means he's able to fight without any measure of self preservation and create a massive advantage as he towered over all the Jedi,

save Sarro who was busy with Zannah (And would have killed her, except for Farfalla actually bringing Johun for some reason that will forever remain unexplained...)

If, for instance, it was Farfalla or Raskta to take the strike against Bane's wrist, likely it would've done more than briefly render his hand useless and allow him to blast them all aside.

And he would still have been able to blast them away - it was a reflexive action brought about by his pain and anger, so if anything the attack might have been stronger.

And he kills Farfalla by knocking Farfalla's saber aside with his arm first.

Also, recall Vader is, in Order 66, able to contend with three to four Jedi knights and masters simultaneously as well

And the Jedi Vader faces in Purge aren't exactly coordinated. He kills the first one when she charges him alone, manages to quickly take out the second one, and then gets slashed up by at least one more - two, if I recall correctly - and runs away. Then, another deactivates his lightsaber with the cortosis blade and promptly gets her neck snapped. Vader proceeds to screw up the weapons of four other Jedi with the knife before getting his hand cut off. Here, one of the of the Jedi actually kills another for a working lightsaber, charges Vader, and gets the cortosis knife thrown in his chest. The remaining Jedi beat Vader into the ground with the Force and are about to kill him when the clones show up.

And in RoDV, he kills four Padawans and low-level Knights before being wounded multiple times by Shryne and eventually killing via the Force.

Clearly, the fights aren't really comparable.

3. Earlier in Ro2, we see Bane brought down by the Umbaran Shadow Assassins briefly, and while some of this is no doubt due to the force pike effect on the orbalisks, and Bane kills several first, they do manage to outmaneuver him and might have finished him if they didn't stop the assault

4. Part of Bane's advantage as well, besides his physical strength, is his unfamiliar dueling style to the Jedi, given the curved hilt saber Kas'im gave him...this isn't an advantage he'd have over, say, Yoda or Mace-both of whom had known, trained with and dueled Dooku. As Kas'im says: it's not the weapon's superiority, but rather the unfamiliarity such a weapon presents to the opponent that's the advantage.

In this case, the unfamiliarity factor applies both ways - Bane is most certainly not going to be familiar with Yoda's usage of Ataru or even much of Mace Windu's Vaapad, but neither will either of the Jedi be comfortable with his style, which while Djem So-centric, incorporates several other forms as well.

Bane's advantages are a bit nullified by Mace and Yoda especially...Bane's height, speed and strength can be matched by Yoda and Mace,

and his overwhelming power in the Dark Side is matched by their power in the opposite,

Mace isn't weak in the Force by any standard, and he would clearly be hell in a duel, but without his weapon he'd be crushed.

as well as Mace's shatterpoint ability which can likely open Bane to a Cho Mai...

as for Palpatine, he's on par with the aforementioned two and has an advantage over Bane of having trained with Bane's holocron, likely from an early age, that, as he see from the Legacy comics, shows Bane with all his knowledge therein and the orbalisks explained. That trio are pretty decent matchups for Bane, I'd say.

On a sidenote, I kind of admit to being really disappointed with Karpyshyn having to Gary Stuify Bane at every turn....and Farfalla deciding to randomly take the nearest Jedi, including Johun, who's kind of responsible for getting the team slaughtered...you know you suck when your opponent doesn't take a chance to kill you because you hurt your team more than the enemy...) without leaving so much as a recording or Johun behind to explain things....I mean, honestly...and what the HELL was up with the Jedi deciding "Well, that crazy young man with no abilities whatsoever who couldn't be more than 20 must have been the surviving Sith Lord who killed Raskta, Sarro, Johun, Farfalla and Worror all at once! Let's go, no need to search the place!"

Wow Faunus, coming from you who runs a forum where stating your opinion gets you verbally raped when it's not in sync with the majority (antedeluvians), I DO see the irony.

None of whom are comparable to BM'd Farfalla and Raskta.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Wow Faunus, coming from you who runs a forum where stating your opinion gets you verbally raped when it's not in sync with the majority (antedeluvians), I DO see the irony.

And the fact that you actually had to bring up EoD and the Antediluvian group without even addressing what I said about your behavior pretty much cements the fact that you have no case against me, and are simply an antagonistic, immature troll. For a university student who considers himself a "highly intelligent man with a near genius IQ," you're surprisingly daft, td.

I suppose you can prove this and at the same time, quantify their abilities when they have BM behind, against when they don't.

Faunus:

I've been over this with Sidi-Boy. Bane just uses her to put himself between the attack team and Worror; you'll note that when she, Farfalla, and Johun - who Raskta was actually able to use to her advantage - all started wailing on Bane's vulnerable head, the best they could do was stall his offensive.

I admit I don't recall where Raskta is just used to put Bane closer to Worror? I recall he goes for Worror, but...?

Yeah, and?

Yeah, Johun's pretty atrocious. He got his ass handed to him by a non-Force-sensitive with short-ranged bladed weapons that he wore on his hands. If that's not embarrassing, I don't know what is.
The only reason Johun managed to get a good shot at Bane's wrist in the first place was because both Raskta and Farfalla were holding off his strikes - if either had shifted their focus for a moment they would've weakened their own offensive and given Bane a critical opening.

And he would still have been able to blast them away - it was a reflexive action brought about by his pain and anger, so if anything the attack might have been stronger.

That's how he fights - it's a boon, not a detracting factor.

None of whom are comparable to BM'd Farfalla and Raskta.

And the Jedi Vader faces in Purge aren't exactly coordinated. He kills the first one when she charges him alone, manages to quickly take out the second one, and then gets slashed up by at least one more - two, if I recall correctly - and runs away. Then, another deactivates his lightsaber with the cortosis blade and promptly gets her neck snapped. Vader proceeds to screw up the weapons of four other Jedi with the knife before getting his hand cut off. Here, one of the of the Jedi actually kills another for a working lightsaber, charges Vader, and gets the cortosis knife thrown in his chest. The remaining Jedi beat Vader into the ground with the Force and are about to kill him when the clones show up.

Regardless, it's a pretty impressive showing on Vader's part

And in RoDV, he kills four Padawans and low-level Knights before being wounded multiple times by Shryne and eventually killing via the Force.

Clearly, the fights aren't really comparable.
After killing three of them before they can even react, he gets hit by the remaining five all at once: a million volts. There's no outmaneuvering here, and they're actually stunned by the fact that he was still alive, as one force-pike alone could kill a bantha.

True, but Mace and Yoda would never have faced a curved-hilt Form V technique before, which would obviously be completely different from Dooku's combat style.

In this case, the unfamiliarity factor applies both ways - Bane is most certainly not going to be familiar with Yoda's usage of Ataru or even much of Mace Windu's Vaapad, but neither will either of the Jedi be comfortable with his style, which while Djem So-centric, incorporates several other forms as well.

Speed? Yeah. Strength? You could make a case for it, and either way he certainly won't be beating them into submission, but I highly doubt that either actually matches him in terms of sheer strength. And height? Matched by Yoda? Bane has several inches on Mace, and is over three times Yoda's height.

In Yoda's case, yes. Mace wouldn't have a prayer against Bane in a Force-battle: his only possible defense against his opponent's assault would be with a lightsaber.

Mace isn't weak in the Force by any standard, and he would clearly be hell in a duel, but without his weapon he'd be crushed.
For one, shatterpoint detection is neither unique to Mace (
stressed in the opening paragraphs is the fact that Mace simply has an easier time with it) nor immediate in a combat situation.

And Bane is unlike any enemy Mace would've ever faced before - he can dedicate himself to the offensive while retaining enough defensive ability to fend off three BM'd Jedi striking at his head, so assuming Windu actually manages to figure out Bane's weakness it would be damn near impossible for him to capitalize on it

Most definitely. In the case of Sidious, I can definitely see the fight swinging either way due to the older Sith Lord's advantages in the Force department, but I can't see any of three winning a prolonged lightsaber duel with him. Clearly, I'm not ruling it out, but it's not highly likely.

Out of curiosity, given Ro2, how would you rate Bane next to other, powerful Sith now? Palpatine, Exar, Naga and the like?

PoD did a far better job with the character than RoT, for sure, and Johun's overwhelming shittyness hurt my brain. [/B]

Faunus is absolutely right: the Jedi are given a nice boost with battle meditation in terms of morale, skill and the like-though Johun STILL SUCKS...so they are enhanced and given Worror's abilities, it ain't a bad enhancement.

Faunus, with respect, some of your coterie [IKC and even Sorgo, once upon a time] are among the worst trolls here. I have a shrine dedicated to them in my profile. Darth Sexy's behavior is hardly limited to just him and I would ask that you remember that.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Out of curiosity, given Ro2, how would you rate Bane next to other, powerful Sith now? Palpatine, Exar, Naga and the like?

Purely from a combat standpoint:

Palpatine -- I think I've made myself clear on this. I wouldn't call him more masterful or refined as Palpatine, but he's surprisingly close in every category that he actually loses out to. I can see him losing a battle with this one, definitely, I just think it'd go to Bane more often than not on account of the orbalisks (read: ludicrous plot device). Without that suit of armor, as he was in PoD, Palpatine would almost certainly win, albeit with considerable difficulty.

Exar Kun -- Kun edges out Bane in the Force department thanks to his amulet (also a ludicrous artifact), but Bane is older, has had far more time to study the Dark side, and has higher showings of raw power. He should definitely win a lightsaber duel, and a Force battle could easily swing his way as well, should he score a hit with his lightning or tremendous wave attacks.

Naga Sadow -- Yeah... don't really know what to say here. RoT notes Sadow to possess "great power," and he was apparently over seven hundred years old as of his death, so the question of who is more knowledgeable in the Force is pretty easily answered. The amulet factors in here again, and considering that Sadow likely has vastly more control over it than Kun did it'd probably be more dangerous. Still, Bane's power and combat showings are virtually unrivaled while Sadow has only one dueling display in a comic book, so it would be hypocritical of me to say that Naga should win. I'd have to give this one to Bane, too.

Caedus -- Bane, with difficulty. Orbalisks mean that Caedus can do very little to him with a lightsaber, and when compared, their Force showings seem to favor Bane.

So, I think Bane has a chance to beat every Sith not called DE Sidious in battle.

Originally posted by Gideon
Faunus, with respect, some of your coterie [IKC and even Sorgo, once upon a time] are among the worst trolls here. I have a shrine dedicated to them in my profile. Darth Sexy's behavior is hardly limited to just him and I would ask that you remember that.

Originally posted by Faunus
Again, the association here is irksome. If anyone has a problem with me they can bringing up things relevant to my own behavior or arguments - EoD and my "coterie" should have no bearing on my reputation. And considering the fact that he's a sock himself, his arguments are about as hypocritical as they come.

Understood. However, I want it clear that I wasn't comparing you to Darth Sexy, merely pointing out that you associate with individuals who have a history of trolling as prominent as his own, and it is unjust to attack him for it and not them; as I recall, Swirly Girl once outright told Lightsnake that he sould commit suicide which is above and beyond anything Darth Sexy has ever said -- the ultimate point being that DS's zealous attacks on Nebaris are nothing new nor is trolling an art that just he is proficient in -- and I would also point out that Nebaris trolls, baits, and insults as well. He doesn't deserve the respect.

Anyways, I'll let it go, I just wanted to clarify. 😎

Palpatine -- I think I've made myself clear on this. I wouldn't call him more masterful or refined as Palpatine, but he's surprisingly close in every category that he actually loses out to. I can see him losing a battle with this one, definitely, I just think it'd go to Bane more often than not on account of the orbalisks (read: ludicrous plot device). Without that suit of armor, as he was in PoD, Palpatine would almost certainly win, albeit with considerable difficulty.

Rather than go back all the way and debate the issue with you, I decided to quote the above and deliver you some addendums in my research.

First, we have the Complete Visual Dictionary's statements that "The Sith have waited a millennium for the birth of one powerful enough to return them from hiding. Darth Sidious is that one -- the Sith's revenge on the Jedi order for nearly wiping out the practitioners of the dark side" -- Darth Bane existed during this millennium and, as evidenced by the quote, was not born with the power to return the Sith from hiding [I will also point out that the statement makes it clear that this power was a birthright, therefore it isn't a reference to political dominion, as the Emperor was not born ruler of the galaxy]. That same source also refers to him as "the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power" as early as Attack of the Clones. Heritage of the Sith and the Essential Guide to the Force refer to Palpatine as "the grim culmination of Sith philosophy and teachings". And lastly, I mentioned the statement issued by the Dark Side Sourcebook; I've found it. Under Darth Sidious's biography, it begins thus:

When the Sith emerged from a thousand years of watching and waiting, they numbered -- in accordance with the tradition set down by Darth Bane -- only two. The most powerful of these was Darth Sidious, an ice-cold diabolically calculating genius equipped with the strength of the dark side of the Force, as well as an enormous wealth of Sith artifacts, equipment, and knowledge.

According to multiple sources, therefore, there can be no question that Palpatine (even as far as the prequel trilogy is concerned) was a more powerful Sith Lord than Darth Bane.

I would also like to point out that Darth Sidious is associated with the dark side itself numerous times throughout the novelization. If I may take the liberty of quoting further passages:

[Dooku] called upon the Force, gathering it to himself and wrapping himself within it. He breathed it in and held it whirling inside his heart, clenching down upon it until he could feel the spin of the galaxy around him.
Until he became the axis of the Universe.
This was the real power of the dark side, the power he had suspected even as a boy, had sought through his long life until Darth Sidious had shown him that it had been his all along. The dark side didn't bring him to the center of the universe. It made him the center.
He drew power into his innermost being until the Force itself existed only to serve his will.
Now the scene below subtly altered, though to the physical eye there was no change. Powered by the dark side, Dooku's perception took the measure of those below him exhilarating precision.
Kenobi was luminous, a transparent being, a window onto a sunlit meadow of the Force.
Skywalker was a storm cloud, flickering with dangerous lightning, building the rotation that threatens a tornado.
And there was Palpatine of course: he was beyond power. He should nothing of what might be within. Though seen with the eyes of the dark side itself, Palpatine was an event horizon. Beneath his entirely ordinary surface was absolute, perfect nothingness. Darkness beyond darkness.
A black hole of the Force.

-- Revenge of the Sith, page 65.

This was the office of the Chancellor.
Within the chair's shadow sat another shadow: deeper, darker, formless and impenetrable, an abyssal umbra so profound that it drained light from the room around it.
And from the city. And the planet.
And the galaxy.

-- Revenge of the Sith, page 317.

The Coruscant nightfall was spreading throughout the galaxy.
The darkness in the Force was no hindrance to the shadow in the Chancellor's office; it was the darkness. Wherever darkness dwelled, the shadow could send perception.

-- Revenge of the Sith, page 321.

Their clash transcended the personal; when new lightning blazed, it was not Palpatine burning Yoda with his hate, it was the Lord of all Sith scorching the Master of all Jedi into a smoldering huddle of clothing and green flesh.
A thousand years of hidden Sith exulted in their victory.

-- Revenge of the Sith, page 392.

When those blades met, it was more than Yoda against Palpatine, more than the millennia of Sith against the legions of Jedi, this was the expression of the fundamental conflict of the universe itself.
Light against dark.
Winner take all.

-- Revenge of the Sith, page 393.

Indeed, Palpatine's shatterpoint, as perceived by Mace Windu, is not only equated as the "absolute shatterpoint of the Sith" but also the "shatterpoint of the dark side itself".

There can be no argument, I'm afraid. Palpatine's effect on the Force is beyond measure, his depth in the dark side unparalleled. Bane simply does not command such power.

edit

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Cry me a river.Tool

You've went ahead and took attention from my brilliant final blow to the Bane fanboy brigade; it took thirty minutes to find all those quotes! 🙁

Originally posted by Faunus
Since we actually agreed on just about everything else, I figured a response to the rest was unnecessary.

Purely from a combat standpoint:

[b]Palpatine -- I think I've made myself clear on this. I wouldn't call him more masterful or refined as Palpatine, but he's surprisingly close in every category that he actually loses out to. I can see him losing a battle with this one, definitely, I just think it'd go to Bane more often than not on account of the orbalisks (read: ludicrous plot device). Without that suit of armor, as he was in PoD, Palpatine would almost certainly win, albeit with considerable difficulty.

Exar Kun -- Kun edges out Bane in the Force department thanks to his amulet (also a ludicrous artifact), but Bane is older, has had far more time to study the Dark side, and has higher showings of raw power. He should definitely win a lightsaber duel, and a Force battle could easily swing his way as well, should he score a hit with his lightning or tremendous wave attacks.

Naga Sadow -- Yeah... don't really know what to say here. RoT notes Sadow to possess "great power," and he was apparently over seven hundred years old as of his death, so the question of who is more knowledgeable in the Force is pretty easily answered. The amulet factors in here again, and considering that Sadow likely has vastly more control over it than Kun did it'd probably be more dangerous. Still, Bane's power and combat showings are virtually unrivaled while Sadow has only one dueling display in a comic book, so it would be hypocritical of me to say that Naga should win. I'd have to give this one to Bane, too.

Caedus -- Bane, with difficulty. Orbalisks mean that Caedus can do very little to him with a lightsaber, and when compared, their Force showings seem to favor Bane.

So, I think Bane has a chance to beat every Sith not called DE Sidious in battle.

Originally posted by Gideon
You've went ahead and took attention from my brilliant final blow to the Bane fanboy brigade; it took thirty minutes to find all those quotes! 🙁

I fixed it, my apologies.

Originally posted by Gideon
Understood. However, I want it clear that I wasn't comparing you to Darth Sexy, merely pointing out that you associate with individuals who have a history of trolling as prominent as his own, and it is unjust to attack him for it and not them; as I recall, Swirly Girl once outright told Lightsnake that he sould commit suicide which is above and beyond anything Darth Sexy has ever said --

the ultimate point being that DS's zealous attacks on Nebaris are nothing new nor is trolling an art that just he is proficient in -- and I would also point out that Nebaris trolls, baits, and insults as well. He doesn't deserve the respect.

There can be no argument, I'm afraid. Palpatine's effect on the Force is beyond measure, his depth in the dark side unparalleled. Bane simply does not command such power.

You've went ahead and took attention from my brilliant final blow to the Bane fanboy brigade; it took thirty minutes to find all those quotes

I'll keep this one in mind for next time.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Cry me a river.Tool

You know Faunus, either prove I'm a sock or shut the hell up. Riding the nuts of a bunch of antisocial pseudointellectuals is only funny for a limited time. Then the accusations become irksome, especially since they are unfounded. Either prove something or stfu. Otherwise you're just embarrassing yourself. We have enough stupid lawyers on this planet, we don't need another one.

The problem is, when Bane faces Sith, his Orbalisks are a hindrance as well as a boon, given many Dark Siders can use force lightning

Originally posted by Faunus
"The Bane fanboy brigade"? Really?

I'll keep this one in mind for next time.

Easy, killer. That was an indirect statement to Nebaris. I have no animosity towards you, and I believe you know I'd leave little doubt if I did.

That entire post was pointless - I never argued that Bane was more powerful than Palpatine, as I actually stated several times.

No, but you did explicitly state that they were close in power. They clearly aren't. Palpatine's raw strength in the dark side is on a magnitude that is unparalleled; I'd say based on effects does Nihilus come close.

Third edit in a row: You did say that no reference of superior power existed, Faunus, between Bane and Sidious, and I just proved that there in fact exists such statements. Multiple ones. That is, perhaps, the greatest relevance of all.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You know Faunus, either prove I'm a sock or shut the hell up.

Riding the nuts of a bunch of antisocial

Really, you're no better than Nebaris.

pseudointellectuals is only funny for a limited time.

Then the accusations become irksome, especially since they are unfounded. Either prove something or stfu.

We have enough stupid lawyers on this planet, we don't need another one.

Go back and look at how your little fit started, and just try to tell me that you're not at fault here. It won't surprise if you do considering how vehemently you deny the fact that you're a sock, so go ahead.