Hell yeah.
Lol, I guess Sidious is one of the characters who simply DESERVES to be curbstomped. xD
Once again, posting unrealistic, one-sided threads is kind of stupid. Do something realistic lolz.
Or you could change the matchup... possibly ROTS Anakin and ROTS Sidious? In that situation, they could possibly win.
No, it will be more like;
Traya: The force is strong in you, young one. I sense it now... you must join me!
Anakin: YOU UNDERESTIMATE MY POWER!!! *Lunges at Traya and subsequently is hit by force lightning from Sion, Traya, and Nihilus simultaneously.*
No, seriously, Anakin is one of the best swordsmen in history, and can take any of them in a saber fight (referring to the trio). If he and Sidious can close up on them, the trio gets pwned. If not, they still hold the advantage at long-ranged combat; Sidious is still stronger than each one of them, but seeing as Anakin's long-ranged assaults are powered next-to-nothing, the trio would still overwhelm Sidious and curbstomp Anakin.
So, it could go either way.
Anakin is the son of the force. His enemies would have a difficult time force attacking him b/c of his strength. As for the new member who brought up Bane AND doubted Sidious's uberness, I would suggest re-reading the ROTS novelization, and trying to refrain from bringing up characters with little bearing on the discussion.
Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
YOU'RE A FOOL to deny canon. NEC...
Which, and as you've already been told, is an in-universe source, written by a character within the Star Wars Galaxy that is perfectly subject to being uninformed, misinformed, holding a poor opinion, and/or suffering from biases.
Put short, the source doesn't even come close to being canon.
Visual Dictionary... DE... I suppose they're all non-canon, right? Well, yeah, of course they aren't canon! The author was lying!
Now you're just making things up. I have both sources, and no such thing is ever factually stated to be the case. Not once, in either source.
But even if that wasn't the case, it's up to you to provide a quote at the very least, so until you can do that, drop the point.
Also, we're talking RotS Sidious here, and that incarnation alone. His power level as of DE is entirely irrelevant.
Bane, I suppose, is the absolute incarnation of power in your eyes, while you refuse to see that Sidious has done far more impressive feats than he had.
Firstly, not at all, Nihilus himself is someone who I view his firm superior in force power.
Secondly, in terms of Force mastery (which is all that I was talking about), Palpatine hasn't even come close to manipulating the Force on the sub-atomic level or anything similar.
Thirdly, seeing as you're so desperate to bring it up, in terms of actual power, Sidious hasn't performed anything even close to planetary, whereas Bane was able to absorb such a magnitude of lightning, that after containing it, and then re-directing it, it was stated that he would have been capable of destroying the entire planet of Ruusan.
-Byss Drain: Yes, it was on a planetary level
No, its wasn't. The scale is completely unknown, and all that is said is that Sidious drained energy from the Planet, over extended periods of time (which alone is indication that he didn't drain the entirety of the Planet's Force energy in one action), to prolong his life.
And again, we're talking about RotS here, not any later incarnation.
and involved a very good portion of the Alderaan survivors;
Again, no indication is given, and given that he was draining their life force to prolong his own, there would have never been any need for him to drain more than one or two inhabitants (depending on their vitality) at any given time.
the simple capability to drain a whole planet at once is far beyond what Traya had displayed.
You're absolutely correct Sidi-Boy, though sadly, Sidious displayed neither.
The details of Nihilus' drain, other than the "Lol he'z so uber" often used by characters- fallible characters- are completely unknown.
Actually, they're not. It was described in Unseen, Unheard, by Visas Marr, that "when [he] spoke, every living thing on Katarr died." Given that she was present, and as a Miralakula, naturally relied on the Force as her primary sense (and thus would have been more in tune with sensing deaths through the Force and such than the average Force User), it's likely that she would have been able to sense the mass disturbance of life through the Force, and the way she describes it would indicate that it was a singular action.
-Force Lightning: Let us not forget the very fact that there will be a single force power very helpful in this fight; namely Sidious' force lightning, that was on a far higher potency than any force users in your list, despite your pretense.
Firstly, tangible Force attacks are just about the most ineffective attacks against other Force Users that there are, because not only would they have to get past the Force User's Force defences in the first place, but then any physical defences as well, in this case, the Force User's lightsaber. You'd have to be far more powerful than your opponent to be able to successfully overpower them with a Force lightning attack, and as it stands, Palpatine hasn't displayed anything that would indicate that he was even more powerful than any of his opponents, let alone the two more powerful of the group (Sion and Nihilus), and by high enough of a degree.
Secondly, the idea that Sidious' force lightning was more powerful than that of any of the three is completely unsupported, and the fact that we haven't seen any demonstrations from them with the action alone doesn't change that.
The lightning was capable of making Windu, an exceptionally powerful saber use, almost be completely overpowered by it
Substantiate this, because while it's somewhat impressive, when dealing with the likes of the beings within the Sith Triumvirate, it really doesn't scream uber. If anything, it indicates that he wasn't even strong enough to overpower someone on the level of Mace Windu.
-and its my contention that Sidious wasn't really trying in the lightning struggle.
Is anyone supposed to care? Until you can prove it, it's worthless to bring up.
The same lightning reduced three dark side prophets to ashes, prophets whose capability with the force was to resurrect a Darth Maul who was capable of matching Vader.
1. Prove that they would have even been prepared to defence against Sidious' attacks, because I just re-read the comic, and as it appears, Sidious completely came out of nowhere and caught them off guard.
2. Since when was experimental application of the Force, something that's more organised if anything else, testament to ability with the Force?
3. Again, we're dealing with RotS Sidious, not any later incarnation, here.
Indeed, he also killed 500 stormtroopers with force lightning- 500 ALTERED stormtroopers. Yeah, go ahead.
It was less than 100 actually, as far as what we see from the comic, which is hardly unprecedented. Bane (I just can't help myself) was able to surpass it in pure scale a simple hour after having learnt the technique for the very first time.
And again, we're dealing with RotS Sidious, not any later incarnation, here.
And what's exactly Bane's usage of the force on a molecular level?
'The Matrix had to fall within exacting specifications, and Bane had spent hundreds of hours making thousands of precise, subatomic alterations through the Force....'- RO2 p.g.136
I won't even get to his force storm. But that's DE Sidious.
I'd advise you not to, as it was completely ritualistic, and something that Sidious wouldn't logically be able to pull off and control well enough in a fast paced duel against three Sith Lords.
-Sidious' speed, anyone? His speed that was addressed as a blur, the viewer (Anakin) being incapable of seeing Sidious himself?
Contradicting G-Canon, anyone? As the movie shows, Anakin only arrived at the location in question after the duel had ended, meaning the novel, in this case, is N-Canon.
On the contrary. Sidious was capable of completely WTFpwning 3 Jedi Masters, who were considered to be some of the greatest swordsmen in the histoy of the Jedi order, in the space of 10 seconds. He also subsequently forced back Mace Windu, who was only capable of gaining the upper hand due to his shatterpoint ability; Sidious was later capable of being equally matched with Yoda, the 'most devestatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known', according to the novel, in lightsaber combat skill, too. I'd call that impressive.
The first two: Agen and Saesee, he was able to take down through his superior Force enhanced speed alone. In no way an indication of lightsaber technique. As for the rest, you're committing a Fallacy of Division, asserting that feats that were achieved through a number of attributes, speak fully for a single attribute of your choosing.
Also, Nick Gillard mentioned him to be a master of every form and a level 9 swordsmen, the highest tier available in lightsaber combat.
Nick Gillard is not even close to being a canon source or real authority on the matter. He's the stunt coordinator of the film, his opinion is only relevant on the choreography we see through the movies, not in any way on the story itself. You're appealing to authority in the worst possible way.
Note that I still believe that ROTS Sidious would be curbstomped by these three,
Which is supposed to mean anything? Only a Grade A idiot would think otherwise.
but he can take any of them on individually.
Based on existing evidence, no, he can't.
Nihilus: able to destroy an entire Planet's inhabitants in what is described as one singular action, and this at a weakened stated. Stated to be at a level of power where he no longer perceived the universe like ordinary beings do.
Sion: able to cheat death, something completely unprecedented, which not only is indication of an extremely high level of power, but something that makes him near unstoppable in these versus threads.
Traya: able to overpower three of the most powerful Jedi Masters of her time with no visible signs of effort, and possessed unparalleled levels of precognition, being able to see thousands of years into the future, and recall events with clarity and understanding.
RotS Sidious hasn't even come close to displaying anything remarkable, or unprecedented, whereas all of the above three have, and based on what they've all shown, Sidious would get absolutely curbstomped by Sion or Nihilus, and solidly beaten by Traya.
No Kadesh...no...
-Bane did abosrb the lightning and redirect it but it was through the use of the ritual and also channeling what 25 other Sith's power, he was merly the conduit. The attack should not be used as a basis of Banes personal power.
-As for Sub atomic manipulations, Palpatine has likely done the same since he has created his own holocron, the Telos holocron as evidence by Jedi vs Sith the Essential Guide to the Force.
-Palpatine during the Clone Wars performs a ritual where he creates a force storm over Coursant, and his sheer power blacks out the entire planet, and it allows him to affect the moral of every Jedi around the galaxy including Yoda. Basically a Bastila's Battle Meditation on a galactic scale.
He's called the culmination of Banes order the most powerful of them (I can't remember the exact source but give me an hour and I'll find it) so that already puts him above Bane.
I could go on with the Sidious hype but I think you get the picture.
Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
He's called the culmination of Banes order the most powerful of them (I can't remember the exact source but give me an hour and I'll find it) so that already puts him above Bane.
Are you referring to this from the essential guide to the force ?
Darth Sidious proved to be the grim culmination of a thousand years of Sith philosophy and teachings.
Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
No Kadesh...no...
Quantify and substantiate seeing as you heavily underestimate Vader.
-Bane did abosrb the lightning and redirect it but it was through the use of the ritual and also channeling what 25 other Sith's power, he was merly the conduit. The attack should not be used as a basis of Banes personal power.
While it's true that it wasn't Bane's own power that was capable of destroying Ruusan, it's the mere fact that he absorbed it ("it" being a planetary level magnitude of Force lightning) in the first place that makes it impressive, which was done completely on his own power.
-As for Sub atomic manipulations, Palpatine has likely done the same since he has created his own holocron, the Telos holocron as evidence by Jedi vs Sith the Essential Guide to the Force.
Nowhere is it stated or even implied that it's vital in the creation of every or any holocron. We know that it was the method Bane chose, but that doesn't mean that the creation of all other Holocrons had to be built in the exact same way, so no, there's nothing whatsoever that suggests that Palpatine would have been capable of doing the same.
-Palpatine during the Clone Wars performs a ritual where he creates a force storm over Coursant, and his sheer power blacks out the entire planet, and it allows him to affect the moral of every Jedi around the galaxy including Yoda. Basically a Bastila's Battle Meditation on a galactic scale.
1. As the comic shows, and as the UVG states, he didn't perform the ritual on his own, but rather, summoned about a dozen Ancient Sith spirits before hand to help him with the Ritual.
2. Last time I checked the comic, all the ritual did was summon lightning storms throughout the Galaxy. Not in any shape or form an actual Force Storm, and in no way did it blacken out the planet or affect any of the Jedi's moral, at least as far as what's shown.
He's called the culmination of Banes order the most powerful of them (I can't remember the exact source but give me an hour and I'll find it) so that already puts him above Bane.
No, he was stated to be the culmination of their knowledge and teachings, nothing about being the most powerful, and while that speaks for quite a bit, there's far more to how powerful a Force User is than just their actual knowledge. based on what they've both displayed, Bane has him beat by a mile in mastery and power.
I could go on with the Sidious hype but I think you get the picture.
No, go on, because as it stands, you didn't prove a single thing.
Quantify and substantiate seeing as you heavily underestimate Vader.
Relevance? How do my opinions from what a year ago have anything to do with this? If anything I pro-Vader as I countinually agued for him against the influx of the Bnae fanboys.
While it's true that it wasn't Bane's own power that was capable of destroying Ruusan, it's the mere fact that he absorbed it ("it" being a planetary level magnitude of Force lightning) in the first place that makes it impressive, which was done completely on his own power.
AGAIN he was channeling the power 25 OTHER Lords, meaning their power + his allowed him to be the focal point and conduit of the Force Storm. He was protected by their power. The simple fact that in RoT when he's put in a similar situation, his own force lightning (A MUCH MUCH MUCH weaker version then the force storm on Ruusan) when reflected back at him, while he was inside the Jedi's force shield brought him to the point that he was an uncounsious half dead smoking husk. Had he had this tremendous power your speaking of he wouldn't have been fazed by it.
Nowhere is it stated or even implied that it's vital in the creation of every or any holocron. We know that it was the method Bane chose, but that doesn't mean that the creation of all other Holocrons had to be built in the exact same way, so no, there's nothing whatsoever that suggests that Palpatine would have been capable of doing the same.
Actually Banes frustration with the Holocron and years of persistance seem to imply that that was the only method available, in creating an ever lasting SITH holocron, like the one Revan made, and the Sith woman with the techno droid army. Why else would such a practical man like Bane waste so much time if other methods were available
1. As the comic shows, and as the UVG states, he didn't perform the ritual on his own, but rather, summoned about a dozen Ancient Sith spirits before hand to help him with the Ritual.
Point taken.
2. Last time I checked the comic, all the ritual did was summon lightning storms throughout the Galaxy. Not in any shape or form an actual Force Storm, and in no way did it blacken out the planet or affect any of the Jedi's moral, at least as far as what's shown.
Actually it did, were shown Padme in the dark and the lights out on Coruscant, were also show every Jedi being affected in the large crystal, such as
Yoda getting hurt out of nowhere and Anakin going beserk. All Sidious influence.
No, he was stated to be the culmination of their knowledge and teachings, nothing about being the most powerful, and while that speaks for quite a bit, there's far more to how powerful a Force User is than just their actual knowledge. based on what they've both displayed, Bane has him beat by a mile in mastery and power.
I'd like to see the exact quote before we go on with this, I'll look it up and get back to you.
Sidious's power is evident through Yoda whom, the ROTS novel calls the most devistatngly powerful force the Dark Side has ever known and in a death match couldn't beat Sidious, meaning he would beat Bane more often then not since is as said "The most powerful force the darkness has ever known." and if Yoda could do it, so could Sids.
Originally posted by Kadeshhe killed those three guys standing around mace windu. He also has a force storm that ravages the surfaces of planets according to darkside source book.
He hasn't demonstrated the power on a scale even close to planetary, and he's never been able to dominate powerful Force Users with it either, let alone three of the most powerful Jedi Masters in the Galaxy at the same time with no visible signs of effort like Traya did.
Originally posted by Kadesh
One of the Visionaries, though I'm not sure you can currently access it from swtimeline.
Is this it?