Darth malak vs count dooku

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
I am positive that what kiddo ment was that dooku is a small step down from yoda, but being able to actually fend against him long enough to escape shows considerable skill.

it shows his lack of skill compared to yoda because the duel was 30 seconds tops and he had to create a diversion to escape.

so in review kiddo64's point about dooku being on the same level is false because

1) dooku only gave yoda 30 seconds of dueling time whereas siddious gave yoda a good five minutes of duel time. BIG DIFFRENCE

2) since yoda trained dooku he pretty much knows how dooku fights so there is nothing dooku could do that yoda cant anticipate.

3) in terms of force siddious is LEAPS AND BOUNDS above dooku. heres my proof. siddious' force lightning knocked yoda out for a few seconds butyoda was able to throw dooku's FL back at him almost effotlessly.

so in a nutshel if yoda and siddious are a 10 then dooku his a high six MAYBE a low seven. which doesnt put him in their league

If Yoda and Sidious are both 10's Dooku is easily an 8. Curbstomped Obi Wan with TK (which Obi Wan was fairly good at projecting and defending).

Had enough juice in the force department to prevent Yoda from punking him. If Dooku wasn't strong in the force Yoda could easily have used the force to overwhelm him.

Yoda was the greater master but he wasn't so much greater that he could crush Dooku with any kind of ease. Dooku held is own against Yoda on two ocassions, and punked Asajj Ventress, Anakin and Obi Wan. The guy was easily a level above someone like Malak who would more likely rank a high 6.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
2) since yoda trained dooku he pretty much knows how dooku fights so there is nothing dooku could do that yoda cant anticipate.

Although I agree that Dooku is not in their league, this argument is not valid.

Why? Two reasons: After he completed his training under the green master, he became a Master himself, which means, you learn many more things as a Jedi. An example of this is AOTC Kenobi compared to ROTS Kenobi. By AOTC he is already a Master, but would you consider him on par with his ROTS counterpart? Of course not, he has become much more powerful through the process of learning and mastering of certain techniques and abilities he had not yet mastered by AOTC. This is certainly a very important factor regarding duels, and could very well affect the outcome.

If Qui-Gon had not died and continued to train him, I can still assure you ROTS Kenobi would defeat Qui-Gon (unless he progressed more as a master), even though he knew absolutely everything about him.

The other reason: becoming a Sith Lord. As a Sith Lord Dooku learned many more abilities and techniques Yoda obviously did not teach him.

Yoda simply defeated Dooku because he is the superior fighter.

Originally posted by Allankles
If Yoda and Sidious are both 10's Dooku is easily an 8. Curbstomped Obi Wan with TK (which Obi Wan was fairly good at projecting and defending).

Had enough juice in the force department to prevent Yoda from punking him. If Dooku wasn't strong in the force Yoda could easily have used the force to overwhelm him.

Yoda was the greater master but he wasn't so much greater that he could crush Dooku with any kind of ease. Dooku held is own against Yoda on two ocassions, and punked Asajj Ventress, Anakin and Obi Wan. The guy was easily a level above someone like Malak who would more likely rank a high 6.

prove that obi wan had practiced against force choke

on the contrary, prove that he DIDN'T.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
on the contrary, prove that he DIDN'T.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
prove that obi wan had practiced against force choke

Obiwan: Hey Anakin, I need to work on my force choke defense, mind helping me out?
Anakin:Why certainly master.
Obiwan:Thank you Ana-*gets choked*

sounds good to me. I want the piece of eu literature that has that in it 😉

I think that in DE Luke learns how to stop Force Choke from Obi-wans diary or something.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
sabers=dooku(he has ungodly good makashi and at least 70 years of dueling in his belt, while malak is considerably younger, and has not shown very many good saber traits.)

1) Malak managed to block all the Lightsaber blows from the mighty Revan on the Leviathan or he wouldn't have made out in one piece. Is this not impressive?

2) He also tooled Bastilla Shan in a Lightsaber duel and easily subdued her in Leviathan. And it should be kept in mind that she was a very promising Jedi in her time and was even sent to confront the mighty Darth Revan.

3) On the Leviathan, Carth Onasi instantly opened fire on him with his two blaster pistols. However, Malak instantly ignited his Lightsaber and managed to block all the firing from Onasi' Blaster pistols within two seconds and than easily turned the tables on him. This was surely impressive, considering that the attack occurred from a very close distance.

Also! In a preview of the Star Wars: Champions of the Force, Malak's skill is described like this: Darth Malak is a straightforward lightsaber combatant. True to his character, his abilities and powers focus on attacking his enemies head on. His high Defense and Attack scores enable him take on strong opponents, and he can increase his damage through Sith Rage when desired.

I don't think that Malak is un-impressive either. And he also has fought in several wars, in which he was well known for recklessly charging in to dangers and still make out alive. And what did he gained from these Wars? A simple answer is "Experience."

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
force=Dooku (well, you see lightning and the like from dooku, and no such super offensive powers from malak. The only thing that can be said for malak is his ability to controll the star forge, but how is he going to use that ability against dooku?)

Dude! Malak knows several Force moves that can be used offensively in fight. They are as follows:

1) Force Lightning. (Malak was indeed a master practitioner of Force Lightning. He used it to kill a Jedi instantly on the Star Forge. He also used it to torture Bastilla Shan and she eventually gave in. According to DSSB, Malak was very proficient in this technique.)

2) Force Drain. (This technique can be used offensively in a fight and it sucks out energies of a living organism, making it weaker and weaker until it wears down.)

3) Force Choke. (Malak used this ability to Force choke two Jedi simultaneously.)

4) Stasis Field. (Malak was also proficient in this technique. He could used this technique to paralyze his victims and than wear them down at will, if he wanted to.)

5) Force Whirlwind. (This is a very powerful offensive application of Telekinesis. Malak could used this ability to overwhelm powerful warriors.)

6) Lightsaber Throw. (This is also an application of Telekinesis and like Darth Vader, Malak also could hurl his Lightsaber at a potential target with good precision during fights.)

And according to DSSB, Malak possessed devastating Dark Side power. He even tells Revan that he is better than his Dark Side incarnation. And even if this is a bit of stretch, he was surely the most powerful in his Empire, which does tells us something.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
all out=Dooku (2/2)

And against Star Forge Malak, Dooku surely stands no chance.

And against a vjun empowered dooku, malak stands no chance.

Disabaling a formidable dark jedi warrior by merely lifting a finger is very impressive.

Originally posted by Ivalice
And against a vjun empowered dooku, malak stands no chance.

Originally posted by Ivalice
Disabaling a formidable dark jedi warrior by merely lifting a finger is very impressive.

2) And Force stunning opponents simultaneously is also no less impressive.

3) And tooling a very powerful Jedi warrior with Force Whirlwind is also no less impressive.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Dude! Any Sith Lord can take advantage of the presence of the strong dark side on that planet. If Dooku gets boosted over there, than same would be the case with Malak.

Then the same thing would happen on the star forge to Dooku.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

1) And Force Choking two Jedi simultaneously without even looking at them is also no less impressive.

2) And Force stunning opponents simultaneously is also no less impressive.

3) And tooling a very powerful Jedi warrior with Force Whirlwind is also no less impressive.

Again lifting a finger to wtf pwn an opponent is far more impressive than killing 2 jedi knights who had to fight their way through dark jedi's droids and the internal defences thus making them weakened by the time they reach malak.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Dude! Any Sith Lord can take advantage of the presence of the strong dark side on that planet. If Dooku gets boosted over there, than same would be the case with Malak.

Prove malak can tap into Vjuns dark side energy seeing that palpatines dark jedi and assaji(a very very formidable opponent) couldn't.

^^^
no time to quote, but the first paragraph (after the first quote) is strawman (at least I hope its strawman).

Everything else though, is formally seconded.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Here is what Malak has shown:

1) Malak managed to block all the Lightsaber blows from the mighty Revan on the Leviathan or he wouldn't have made out in one piece. Is this not impressive?

1) [b]Force Lightning. (Malak was indeed a master practitioner of Force Lightning. He used it to kill a Jedi instantly on the Star Forge. He also used it to torture Bastilla Shan and she eventually gave in. According to DSSB, Malak was very proficient in this technique.)

3) Force Choke. (Malak used this ability to Force choke two Jedi simultaneously.)[quote]
woopdedoozerz so can dooku!
[quote]
4) Stasis Field. (Malak was also proficient in this technique. He could used this technique to paralyze his victims and than wear them down at will, if he wanted to.)

5) Force Whirlwind. (This is a very powerful offensive application of Telekinesis. Malak could used this ability to overwhelm powerful warriors.)

6) Lightsaber Throw. (This is also an application of Telekinesis and like Darth Vader, Malak also could hurl his Lightsaber at a potential target with good precision during fights.)

And according to DSSB, Malak possessed devastating Dark Side power.

He even tells Revan that he is better than his Dark Side incarnation. And even if this is a bit of stretch, he was surely the most powerful in his Empire, which does tells us something.

This is too far-fetched. Don't you think?

And against Star Forge Malak, Dooku surely stands no chance. [/B]

doubt it. Logically, dooku has more chance of winning.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
Then the same thing would happen on the star forge to Dooku.

Hence, the case of Star Forge is different from that of a dark side planet.

Originally posted by Ivalice
Wow i guess darth zannah is more powerful than either dooku or malak because as an untrained child, she snapped the neck of 2 jedi knights.

Originally posted by Ivalice
Again lifting a finger to wtf pwn an opponent is far more impressive than killing 2 jedi knights who had to fight their way through dark jedi's droids and the internal defences thus making them weakened by the time they reach malak.

Originally posted by Ivalice
Don't be contradictory, remember whenever we debated SF malak vs any tom dick and harry? You were always so insistent that nobody else can tap into the SF except malak, but now you are wrong.

In the case of Star Forge, a Sith Lord needs to understand its secrets and working mechanism and try to control it before gaining any support from it.

Originally posted by Ivalice
Prove malak can tap into Vjuns dark side energy seeing that palpatines dark jedi and assaji(a very very formidable opponent) couldn't.

And Palpatine's Dark Jedi means jack shit here.

Malak has shown us that he could tap in to and control a mighty dark side superweapon called Star Forge and gain its support. Hence, he surely is capable of tapping in to dark side energies of a Dark Side planet.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He needs to understand the secrets of and control the Star Forge as well before getting its support or getting empowered by it. Just by standing on it, a Sith won't become a monster.

Hence, the case of Star Forge is different from that of a dark side planet.

Bullshit! Dooku can certainly gain the normal darkside boost from the star forge because it is a massive darkside object. Unless you can prove that the star forge's darkside presence is hidden(or on a different frequency) from other powerful darksider users. The secret that Malak used was with preserving the jedi's to drain energy from.

What Malak discovered is as he says

"The Star Forge is more than just a space station. In some ways, it is like a living creature. It hungers. And it can feed on the dark side that is within all of us."

Immediately prior to his defeat at the hands of Revan, Malak attempted to harness a heretofore ignored property of the Star Forge. Using Jedi captured from the destroyed enclave on Dantooine, Malak was able to incorporate them into the Star Forge itself, which was seemingly capable of harnessing the power of Force-sensitives and channeling the power into a particular subject—in this case, Malak himself. The Jedi in the Star Forge were unable to become one with the Force while in this state, and Malak could use the energy inside the nearly lifeless bodies to regain his strength. The drained Jedi were apparently killed in the process. Revan sabotaged the system during his battle with Malak on the Star Forge Viewing Platform and it was subsequently destroyed along with the rest of the Star Forge.

Nothing says that Dooku couldn't get the normal darkside boost from it. Which you would have to prove.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
the power of revan in saber combat is unestablished as anything other then an unknown. They could both be padawans (unlikely) with sabers and amaizing with force. Little is said or known about their saber abilities.

He also took on and defeated several of the elite swordsmen of his age including Yusanis and Malak. According to KOTOR 2, he was also proficient in Jar Kai. And his precognition abilities were also amazing.

So nothing indicates that he wasn’t exceptional.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
1. Bastilla is a young jedi knight. She is also a sentinel. He could have tooled her in the force as well. Once again, since bastila is nothing very hot with the saber, this does not prove an amaizing feat. When sent against Revan, she was ultimately tooled, And if malak is nothing super, in the same way, all of the sith/jedi under him would be nothing super, making a super guy stand out amongst them.

Dude! Some people argue that Yoda was a Jedi Consular and yet we know that he was also a master swordsman.

Now Bastilla Shan even constructed a Double-Bladed Lightsaber and was it for fun? It makes sense for a person like Maul to construct a Double-Bladed Lightsaber, since it would be highly useful in taking on multiple enemy combatants simultaneously. So why would Bastilla make such a move? Better think on this point.

We also know that the Jedi Council sent her with the Jedi Strike Team to confront Darth Revan on his flagship. Now her Battle Meditation ability was indeed essential but so were her fighting skills as well. Do you think that the Jedi Council would send some half @ssed Jedi to battle the Sith and their Dark Lord?

Seriously dude! You and some others need to think more logically.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
And how many other jedi/sith can and have done this? when kenobi/qui gon were confronted with Droideka's they did this against a constant torrent of machine blaster fire.

Within just 2 seconds, Malak ignited his Lightsaber, blocked all the blaster fire and than counter-attacked. And keep in mind that he was attacked from very close.

Now in contrast to this, when Jango Fett opened fire on a Jedi from close distance, he was doomed during AOTC in the Battle of the Clones.

So once again! You need to pay more attention to my comments.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
1. Is this source cannon? it is but a preview.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
2. Once again, so many other's can be attributed these powers, it makes him nothing unique or powerful.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
woopdedoozerz so can dooku!

Unless his stats match that of Malak, you don’t have a point.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
where is this from, what source?

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
what source?

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
1. darth vader used this once and missed.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
2. Dooku is a master of telekenesis, and the order's greatest pupil.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
As did maul, zannah, sideous, revan, krayt, kun, droma, luke, dasann, tavion, Brandon, and any other dark side name you can rattle off, according to dssb.

From your list Revan, Kun, Luke and Sidious are exceptions however.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
WTF? i think he said that REVAN was better then REVAN's previous darkside person. And this tells us nothing. Name one impressive in his empire.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
doubt it. Logically, dooku has more chance of winning.