Darth malak vs count dooku

Started by Lord Knightfa115 pages
Lord Knightfa11 Restricted

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
Hmm... I think I'm going with Dooku here. Dooku's saber skills are absolutely incredible, and he's hardly a slouch in lightning and choke, the same techniques that Malak was seen using often; the only advantage Malak would have on Dooku in the force is drain, and seeing as there will be nothing to drain here, and Dooku probably has highly potent force defenses, in addition to his vastly greater experience.

Yes, it is dooku who takes it.

While bringing up Sidious will be relevant due to the fact that he did instruct Dooku in the usage of most dark side techniques, Dooku mentioned how Sidious never bothered to teach him lightsaber techniques. Therefore, Sidious' prowess with a lightsaber is completely irrelevant in this debate.

Yes but you can't use the fact that sideous would take malak apart to say dooku would, because, frankly, sideous would take bane and Revan apart. So by this arguement Dooku>bane and dooku>revan.

Also, Knightfall, Dooku is Sidious' probably greatest long-time apprentice (not counting Mustafar Vader), due to his high degree of force mastery and his prowess with the lightsaber; his technical skill is basically the best that can be, and he is also faster and more mobile than suited Vader. While Vader might've learned more dark side abilities than Dooku had, Dooku both had a far longer time to learn the usage of the force, and was also capable of using lightning, something that Vader was simply incapable of doing. Vader's raw power was also significantly decreased after Obi-Wan turned him into roast beef on Mustafar.

I'm not arguing that dooku is not the shiz with the saber, but he is not close enough to sideous to say that sideous wins this so dooku wins this.

Sidi-Boy Baby Killer

And I did not once deny anything you said, Knightfall.

Lord Knightfa11 Restricted

lol i guess you didn't...

IAMBATMAN Restricted

Knightfall, quit being a smart ass and learn to read.

I said dooku is roughly as powerful as vader in terms of force mastery.

Did you see the word in terms of force mastery? He obviously studied the force longer than vader(decades). But that does not mean he is more powerful than vader overall considering that vaders force mastery is also very formidable and the fact that he has incredible raw power and demonstrated much skill in using the force.

Lord Knightfa11 Restricted

Originally posted by IAMBATMAN
Knightfall, quit being a smart ass and learn to [b]read.

I said dooku is roughly as powerful as vader in terms of force mastery.

Did you see the word in terms of force mastery? He obviously studied the force longer than vader(decades). But that does not mean he is more powerful than vader overall considering that vaders force mastery is also very formidable and the fact that he has incredible raw power and demonstrated much skill in using the force. [/B]


I read what you said, and I understand what you are trying to say. You have a point that he studied the force longer, and I am just saying that it is too hard to compare them to use this as an arguement.

1. "roughly as powerful in terms of force mastery" is speculation, and not backed by any canon sources, unless you are prepared to list their feats and abilities next to each other, along with how one feat and ability is better then another. Just dont go to the point of arguing with me over something you speculated as canon. And don't go insulting me when i tell you this.
2. I meant in terms of force mastery in everything above. Your point once again takes a very difficult arc of A>b>C. dooku is equal to vader (yet to be proven) and vader is 80% of sideous, and sideous owns malak with less then 80% of his effort (yet to be proven) so then, vader could do it, and since vader can do it, then dooku can because he is equal to vader (yet to be proven)

IAMBATMAN Restricted

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
I read what you said, and I understand what you are trying to say. You have a point that he studied the force longer, and I am just saying that it is too hard to compare them to use this as an arguement.
You saying so does not make it so. Considering the fact you even responded pretty much made it clear that you don't understand it.
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

1. "roughly as powerful in terms of force mastery" is speculation, and not backed by any canon sources, unless you are prepared to list their feats and abilities next to each other, along with how one feat and ability is better then another. Just dont go to the point of arguing with me over something you speculated as canon. And don't go insulting me when i tell you this.
You know what? You are a fu-cking idiot. Its obvious by CANON FACT that dooku studied the force longer than vader which would mean his force mastery is on a very high level so how exactly is that speculating my friend? Just read more comics and novels and hell find out when he(dooku) even started his force training, i don't see how this is speculation when common sense points out the facts.
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

2. I meant in terms of force mastery in everything above. Your point once again takes a very difficult arc of A>b>C. dooku is equal to vader (yet to be proven) and vader is 80% of sideous, and sideous owns malak with less then 80% of his effort (yet to be proven) so then, vader could do it, and since vader can do it, then dooku can because he is equal to vader (yet to be proven)
Again this isn't A>b>c if you actually understood what i was trying to imply.

You meant in terms of force mastery in everything above, but i meant in terms of force mastery alone. Learn to read and shut the hell up.

Lord Knightfa11 Restricted

Originally posted by IAMBATMAN
You saying so does not make it so. Considering the fact you even responded pretty much made it clear that you don't understand it.

?

You know what? You are a fu-cking idiot.

this is obviously pointless to your debate. The only use of this is to annoy and to fling insults. You are proving with inappropriate language and blatant insults that [b]you are the idiot.

Its obvious by CANON FACT that dooku studied the force longer than vader which would mean his force mastery is on a very high level so how exactly is that speculating my friend?

It is not speculation to say either, but it is speculation to compare him with vader and use that as a figure against malak. There is also more to the force then just studying it. Yoda studied the force for 800 years and barely matched up to sideous's probable 60. Time does not equal power, as has been proven in "the most knowledgeable characters in the force" thread.
Just read more comics and novels and hell find out when he(dooku) even started his force training, i don't see how this is speculation when common sense points out the facts.

I know dooku has upwards of 70 years of training. Sideous is how old in rots? He probably had 60 years of training under his belt. But if dooku studied as long or more then sideous, why isn't he more powerful? stop this nonsence that you call common sense. Vader is the chosen one, has far more force potential and is 80% of sideous. once again, find a way to link vader to tyranus, and I will understand.

By my logic, tyranus would be MORE powerful then vader. Vader has never shown lightning on dooku's scale (much less any lightning at all) However, this is extremely difficult to prove.

Again this isn't A>b>c if you actually understood what i was trying to imply.

if every meaning i grasp at from your comment is a misunderstanding of what you were trying to imply, don't imply. Restate, right now, EXACTLY and BLATANTLY what you meant to say.

You meant in terms of force mastery in everything above, but i meant in terms of force mastery alone. Learn to read and shut the hell up. [/B]

omg. You know I meant force master alone when I said that. you are trying to sound intelligent and failing miserably. Learn to say what you mean, make yourself clear, and then don't evade a good arguement by saying that it is not arguing what you meant to say. And shut up.

IAMBATMAN Restricted

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
?
Apprantly you are an idiot considering that you didn't even know what i said.
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

this is obviously pointless to your debate. The only use of this is to annoy and to fling insults.

Pointing out facts isn't pointless friend, you ARE the idiot.
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

You are proving with inappropriate language and blatant insults that i [b]am the idiot.[/B]
Fixed.
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

It is not speculation to say either, but it is speculation to compare him with vader and use that as a figure against malak.
But to even argue malak vs dooku in the first place is speculation alone pal, i am simply using your own logic against you and so, which canon source states dooku > malak? Go ahead pal.

Being a smartass does not work too well for you. Shut the hell up

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

There is also more to the force then just studying it. Yoda studied the force for 800 years and barely matched up to sideous's probable 60. Time does not equal power, as has been proven in "the most knowledgeable characters in the force" thread.
How about dooku tooling a dark jedi with a flick of his finger? How about being stated to be one of the most powerful jedi and an even greater sith lord?

And idiot, i never said time = power, i merely implied time = mastery. I already made it clear that vaders power surpasses that of dooku. I merely brought out dookus force mastery ALONE and NOT his force power.

Being a smartass does not work too well for you. Shut the hell up

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

I know dooku has upwards of 70 years of training. Sideous is how old in rots? He probably had 60 years of training under his belt. But if dooku studied as long or more then sideous, why isn't he more powerful? stop this nonsence that you call common sense.
LOL common sense is nonsense? How stupid can you be? You are probably stupid as stupid can be. Ok, dooku had 70 years of training, but have you forgot that he had only 13 years of dark side training? And you are comparing him to sidious whom has even longer dark side training.

Being a smartass does not work too well for you. Shut the hell up

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

otential and is 80% of sideous. once again, find a way to link vader to tyranus, and I will understand.
Force mastery alone? Dark side knowledge?
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

By my logic, tyranus would be MORE powerful then vader. Vader has never shown lightning on dooku's scale (much less any lightning at all) However, this is extremely difficult to prove.
And i fail to see how this has any relevance pal.
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

if every meaning i grasp at from your comment is a misunderstanding of what you were trying to imply, don't imply. Restate, right now, EXACTLY and BLATANTLY what you meant to say.
I dont have to, just learn to read.
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

omg. You know I meant force master [b]alone when I said that. you are trying to sound intelligent and failing miserably. Learn to say what you mean, make yourself clear, and then don't evade a good arguement by saying that it is not arguing what you meant to say. And shut up. [/B]
Shut up? Why should i shut up when you initiated the whole debate thinking you are so smart? The thing is i AM intelligent(and much more intelligent than you) seeing the fact that you yourself cant even SPELL properly and has extremely poor grammer skills and behaves like a TWELVE YEAR OLD kid

Lord Knightfa11 Restricted
Originally posted by IAMBATMAN
Apprantly you are an idiot considering that you didn't even know what i said.

It doesn't make any sense.

Fixed.

Mr. Intelligent and mature. So how old are you to have thought that up? 4?

But to even argue malak vs dooku in the first place is speculation alone pal, i am simply using your own logic against you and so, which canon source states dooku > malak? Go ahead pal.

As I have said, you have yet to prove/disprove anything as far as Dooku does or does not equal Vader in force mastery.

Being a smartass does not work too well for you. Shut the hell up
It's not working so hot for you.

How about dooku tooling a dark jedi with a flick of his finger? How about being stated to be one of the most powerful jedi and an even greater sith lord?
substantiate buddy, substantiate, And i know the quote that called him the greatest student .

And idiot, i never said time = power, i merely implied time = mastery. I already made it clear that Vader's power surpasses that of dooku. I merely brought out dookus force mastery ALONE and NOT his force power.

At this point you have nothing left to argue so you are arguing meaningless word comparisons and flinging juvenile insults. If mastery does not effect power, then how does mastery help him at all?

Being a smartass does not work too well for you. Shut the hell up

bashing.
LOL common sense is nonsense? How stupid can you be? You are probably stupid as stupid can be.

bashing.
Ok, dooku had 70 years of training, but have you forgot that he had only 13 years of dark side training? And you are comparing him to sidious whom has even longer dark side training.

Not, I, but you are, in your arguement that since sideous could take malak easily, then dooku would be able to. I grow tired of your unsubstantiated argument.

Force mastery alone? Dark side knowledge?

Prove it. Prove to me that dooku is equal to Vader in force mastery and I will concede.
And i fail to see how this has any relevance pal.

It is because you fail to see at all. This has relevance because dooku is greater than Vader in sheer force mastery.
I dont have to, just learn to read.

Yes, you do. If i obviously am not understanding what you are trying to say and prove, then I obviously can't debate it. The reason you don't say exactly what you mean right now is because I have already disproved it.

Shut up? Why should i shut up when you initiated the whole debate thinking you are so smart? The thing is i AM intelligent(and much more intelligent than you) seeing the fact that you yourself cant even SPELL properly and has extremely poor grammer skills and behaves like a TWELVE YEAR OLD kid
This is coming from the man who spelled "Grammar" incorrectly when lecturing me about my spelling. Let me see. The parts that I have put in bold in the above quote are the parts where you made grammar mistakes. Oh, and the whole last sentence was a run on.
Here is the above quote written correctly.
Shut up? Why should I shut up when you initiated the whole debate in thinking that you are so smart? I am intelligent, and much more intelligent than you. You can't even spell properly, have extremely poor skills, and behave like a twelve year old child.
IAMBATMAN Restricted
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
It doesn't make any sense.

1) Because you lack common sense
2) Because you just don't have the capabilities to think.
3)Being a smartass does not work too well for you. Shut the hell up

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

Mr. Intelligent and mature. So how old are you to have thought that up? 4?
Correction. A 4 year old would hardly even know how to log on to a website. Try again smartass.

Being a smartass does not work too well for you. Shut the hell up

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

As I have said, you have yet to prove/disprove anything as far as Dooku does or does not equal Vader in force mastery.
Common sense friend common sense. Dooku has studied the lightside far longer than vader and the fact that he has broad dark side knowledge? How about wtf pwning a formidable dark jedi by lifting his finger?

Being a smartass does not work too well for you. Shut the hell up

How about mind raping a KRAYT DRAGON? How about being able to rip valuable information out of his opponents mind? Go toe to toe with YODA?

Being a smartass does not work too well for you. Shut the hell up

Again quit being stupid, i am talking about force mastery. If you do something over and over again studying it time and again for a period of years let alone decades, you simply become more proficient and better at it.

Being a smartass does not work too well for you. Shut the hell up

Its simple, its common sense pal and the fact that you fail to understand that proves you are the peak of human stupidity.

So seeing that dooku has studied the force longer than vader, it would be logical to assume that his mastery of the force is very broad.

Being a smartass does not work too well for you. Shut the hell up

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

It's not working so hot for you.
substantiate buddy, substantiate, And i know the quote that called him the greatest [b] student . [/B]
And the substantiation is the fact that he studied the force longer than vader thus having great control over the force.

And please don't lecture me about being so speculative when in the first place dooku vs malak is pure speculation.

Being a smartass does not work too well for you. Shut the hell up

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

At this point you have nothing left to argue so you are arguing meaningless word comparisons and flinging juvenile insults.
Its not an insult when its a fact son, the fact remains that you ARE an idiot. If dooku is not even close to vader in terms of mastery, then why the hell is he called an extremely formidable opponent? Why is he called a DARK LORD OF A SITH?

Hell even george lucas stated that vader was dookus SUCCESSOR.

Being a smartass does not work too well for you. Shut the hell up

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

If mastery does not effect power, then how does mastery help him at all?
I never said mastery does not effect power genuis. I merely stated vaders raw power exceeds dookus.

Mastery merely gives you more control over power.

Being a smartass does not work too well for you. Shut the hell up

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

bashing.
Fact

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

bashing.
Fact, If you think common sense is nonsense, it only shows how naive and idiotic you really are!.

Being a smartass does not work too well for you. Shut the hell up

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

Not, I, but you are, in your arguement that since sideous could take malak easily, then dooku would be able to. I grow tired of your unsubstantiated argument.
Quote me where i said the word "easily" genius.

I merely made the claim about dooku's force mastery rivaling vaders. I never implied or said easy.

Learn to read!

Being a smartass does not work too well for you. Shut the hell up

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

Prove it. Prove to me that dooku is equal to Vader in force mastery and I will concede.
Just read properly and the answer is in front of your face. I said it many times already.
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

It is because you fail to see at all.
O rly? Just look at the crap you posted below!
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

This has relevance because dooku is greater than Vader in sheer force mastery.
THATS MY WHOLE POINT! Why the stupidity???!?!?!?!?!one!!!!oneone11!one

Holy shit pal you just shot both your balls with one bullet.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

Yes, you do. If i obviously am not understanding what you are trying to say and prove, then I obviously can't debate it. The reason you don't say exactly what you mean right now is because I have already disproved it.
This is coming from the man who spelled "Grammar" incorrectly when lecturing me about my spelling. Let me see. The parts that I have put in bold in the above quote are the parts where you made grammar mistakes. Oh, and the whole last sentence was a run on.
Here is the above quote written correctly.
Just shut up and look at YOUR OWN SENTENCE above this.

You just OWNED yourself.

Sidi-Boy Baby Killer

Err... Ivalice, Knightfall, would you mind telling me what you two are actually debating about? It's actually fairly difficult for me to see that as you both seem to agree that Dooku takes on Malak.

But anyways, Knightfall, once again, the whole "Dooku is 80% of Sidious" stuff doesn't work, because there are many sorts of strengths. For example, a guy with uber force skills but shitty saber skills may be 80% of Sidious' power, but will get curbstomped by Malak in a duel while Malak is probably NOT 80% of Sidious' power. In addition, ONLY Sidious' mastery of the force is relevant to this debate, as Sidious never taught Dooku anything about swordsmanship. That 80% stuff does not necessarily apply to skills with a saber. You're very much correct about saying that Sidious owns Malak with a blade so Dooku does too, it's simply rather stupid.

Anyways, according to NG- who is very much canon- Sidious is a level 9 swordsman while Dooku is most definetly an 8 (Obi-Wan was mentioned as an 8, and Sidious/Anakin/Mace/Yoda are the only 9's. Obiviously, Dooku is an 8 unless you think he's Obi-Wan's inferior with a blade), so they are at least somewhat close.

HOWEVER, Ivalice is also very much correct about Dooku exceeding Vader in terms of overall force mastery. While Vader is likely Dooku's superior in terms of dark side knowledge, Dooku is far more experienced and is capable of harnessing Sidious' signature attack, namely force lightning, something Vader cannot do. While Vader's raw power is probably higher, Dooku's mastery and technical skill in the usage of the force is definetly superior.

Lord Knightfa11 Restricted

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
?
By my logic, tyranus would be MORE powerful then vader. Vader has never shown lightning on dooku's scale (much less any lightning at all) However, this is extremely difficult to prove.

This is what I said. Of course I meant force mastery, and not power. LOL. What Ivalice is trying to prove is that dooku>vader in force mastery by saying he has studied far longer then him. By this logic, Since yoda studied for 800 years, he should have more force mastery then sideous, which is a falacy.

So... unless he proves how dooku is as good as vader, he is as good as cooked, stating the same arguement over and over and over and over.

Ivalice: "He studied more, you fu-king idiot"
Me: "That doesnt necessarily represent force mastery."

At this point, I think we are arguing for the heck of it. 💃

IAMBATMAN Restricted

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
This is what I said. Of course I meant force mastery, and not power. LOL. What Ivalice is trying to prove is that dooku>vader in force mastery by saying he has studied far longer then him. By this logic, Since yoda studied for 800 years, he should have more force mastery then sideous, which is a falacy.

So... unless he proves how dooku is as good as vader, he is as good as cooked, stating the same arguement over and over and over and over.

Ivalice: "He studied more, you fu-king idiot"
Me: "That doesnt necessarily represent force mastery."

At this point, I think we are arguing for the heck of it. 💃

Fine, knightfall i do apologise if i lost my temper arguing with you. I really am sorry but i think that getting heated over a hypothetical debate is stupid.

Firstly i never said dooku > vader, i said his force mastery is close to his and i already stated earlier that vaders sheer power surpasses that of dooku.

I only meant dooku is close to vader in sheer force mastery which is what you just said earlier.

Lord Knightfa11 Restricted

Originally posted by IAMBATMAN
Fine, knightfall i do apologise if i lost my temper arguing with you. I really am sorry but i think that getting heated over a hypothetical debate is stupid.[/quote
dont worry about it. It was a good debate.
Firstly i never said dooku > vader, i said his force mastery is close to his and i already stated earlier that vaders sheer power surpasses that of dooku.

Well now I am saying that dooku > vader. LETS FIGHT! JK
[quote]
I only meant dooku is close to vader in sheer force mastery which is what you just said earlier.

is no problem. It was a good debate.

IAMBATMAN Restricted

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
Well now I am saying that dooku > vader. LETS FIGHT! JK

is no problem. It was a good debate.

Nah you are not. Anyways ill stop debating. Its tiring arguing the same thing over and over again for 2 years. Even nebaris seems to be inactive and tired of it as am i.

Lord Knightfa11 Restricted

Where is noobaris? seams kinda slow without him... ;(