Darth malak vs count dooku

Started by S_W_LeGenD5 pages

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
Bullshit! Dooku can certainly gain the normal darkside boost from the star forge because it is a massive darkside object. Unless you can prove that the star forge's darkside presence is hidden(or on a different frequency) from other powerful darksider users. The secret that Malak used was with preserving the jedi's to drain energy from.

Dude! Every Sith Lord would get the so called normal dark side boost on the Star Forge.

Though! To get empowered by it in such a manner that an individual becomes nearly unstoppable requires more than just staying on it.

Is this so hard to understand?

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
What Malak discovered is as he says And as wookieepedia makes my point and im short on time

It shows that he understands Star Forge far better by that time.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
Nothing says that Dooku couldn't get the normal darkside boost from it. Which you would have to prove.

Yes! He would but that happened to all the Sith stationed on it. But Malak still seemed to benefit more than that, right?

Here is a clue: "The Star Forge was doing exactly what Malak wanted it to do." Now go figure!

Ivalice Restricted

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It shows that her RAW POWER is immense.

And it shows that(by your logic) zannah is FAR more powerful than malak.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And what about generating a Force Whirlwind and tooling a powerful Jedi warrior with it?

And what about generating a technique on a powerful dude whom by your own words was unable to defend against it because he was still in shock from the revelation?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

In the case of Star Forge, a Sith Lord needs to understand its secrets and working mechanism and try to control it before gaining any support from it.

Can you prove this? Who said you need to understand how a machine functions to merely tap into the dark side energy surrounding the machine? If malak, bastila and other tom dick and harry's can get empowered on the SF, i don't see why dooku can't.

DROP the kotor fanboyism.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Was Assajj a very powerful force user like Dooku or Malak?

Were the 2 jedi knights whom were battered by countless droids and dark jedi as well as the internal defences before confronting malak even comparable to that of assaji ventress? An extremely formidable dark jedi that could fight toe to toe with ROTS anakin?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And Palpatine's Dark Jedi means jack shit here.

Jack shit? They could fight toe to toe with DE luke(whom by then, luke has surpassed most of the PT jedi superior to Kotor jedi and became even more powerful after his training with palpatine) and not get tooled in the process.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Malak has shown us that he could tap in to and control a mighty dark side superweapon called Star Forge and gain its support. Hence, he surely is capable of tapping in to dark side energies of a Dark Side planet.

LOL and that means dooku can't? If he can tap into a dark side planet i don't see why he can't do the same to the SF, he DOES NOT need to understand the secrets of the SF to merely tap into its dark side energy.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Though! To get empowered by it in such a manner that an individual becomes nearly unstoppable requires more than just staying on it.

QUIT taking things out of context and STOP grasping at straws legend, the unstoppable shit was pointed to malak AND his sith armada, it was NOT pointed to the individual. Read the quote more carefully.

Malak was nearly unstoppable, but the Republic emerged from that epic conflict victorious, as the Star Forge was eventually destroyed

Just look at "but the republic emerged". That quote was in reference to malaks EMPIRE in the space battle.

You may think he is unstoppable individually, but all he was doing is draining captive jedi to replenish his life force after getting struck down time and again.

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by Ivalice
And it shows that(by your logic) zannah is FAR more powerful than malak.

And Dooku.

Her Raw Power was probably greater than either of these two. Or perhaps she managed to tap far in to her potential in a fit of rage.

Remember that when Obi-Wan tapped in to the Dark Side, he managed to push back Maul for a brief period of time.

So you pick one.

Originally posted by Ivalice
And what about generating a technique on a powerful dude whom by your own words was unable to defend against it because he was still in shock from the revelation?

A Jedi in a state of shock and rage, is till a formidable foe. For example: Anakin at Mustafar wasn't playing with Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by Ivalice
Can you prove this? Who said you need to understand how a machine functions to merely tap into the dark side energy surrounding the machine? If malak, bastila and other tom dick and harry's can get empowered on the SF, i don't see why dooku can't.

Not just tap in to the Dark Side of the machine but to understand its functions and nature and utilize that knowledge to use the machine to do your bidding at will.

Originally posted by Ivalice
DROP the kotor fanboyism.

So debating in the favor a KOTOR character makes a debator a KOTOR fanboy whereas, debating in favor of a PT character makes him or her sensible and nuetral?

Originally posted by Ivalice
Were the 2 jedi knights whom were battered by countless droids and dark jedi as well as the internal defences before confronting malak even comparable to that of assaji ventress? An extremely formidable dark jedi that could fight toe to toe with ROTS anakin?

And weren't those Jedi powerful and skilled combatants, as they went through hell in the Star Forge and still made to Malak's place in one piece?

And they were two instead of one.

Originally posted by Ivalice
Jack shit? They could fight toe to toe with DE luke(whom by then, luke has surpassed most of the PT jedi superior to Kotor jedi and became even more powerful after his training with palpatine) and not get tooled in the process.

Assajj could put up a decent fight against ROTS Anakin, who managed to kill Count Dooku. So by your logic, she should be able to defeat Count Dooku as well, right?

Dude! "Force Mastery" is what we are discussing over here. Count Dooku brough Assaj to her knees through his exceptional "Force Mastery."

Originally posted by Ivalice
LOL and that means dooku can't? If he can tap into a dark side planet i don't see why he can't do the same to the SF, he DOES NOT need to understand the secrets of the SF to merely tap into its dark side energy.

You do not understand the nature of the Star Forge, so I can't help here.

NOTE: Star Forge was more than just a Dark Side place. Controlling it wasn't that easy.

Originally posted by Ivalice
QUIT taking things out of context and STOP grasping at straws legend, the unstoppable shit was pointed to malak AND his sith armada, it was NOT pointed to the individual. Read the quote more carefully.

Dude! That comment was also aimed towards Malak as an individual. Remember that they used the term "Malak was nearly unstoppable" and not "Malak' Sith Empire was nearly unstoppable."

Hence, they were pointing out towards Malak himself and also his Empire in that one comment.

Originally posted by Ivalice
Just look at "but the republic emerged". That quote was in reference to malaks EMPIRE in the space battle.

Dude! They skipped several details and just gave an over-view.

What about Revan's role? Did they mentione anything about that.

Originally posted by Ivalice
You may think he is unstoppable individually, but all he was doing is draining captive jedi to replenish his life force after getting struck down time and again.

Who told you that he got struck down time and again during the battle? He wasn't going down until his supply-line was completely cut off. After that, he was struck down in a Lightsaber duel, as revealed in Duron' dream.

Ivalice Restricted

Legend, your extreme stubborness makes me no longer interested in debating with you(not that i can't come up with a rebuttal but i simply choose not to). You win. I'll leave this to gideon if he sees it.

ThoraxeRMG The Last Boss

He did give some great points though.
He's gained my respect.

Lord Knightfa11 Restricted

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Dude! Revan was declared to be a prodigy after the battle of the Star Forge. It surely means something.
He also took on and defeated several of the elite swordsmen of his age including Yusanis and Malak. According to KOTOR 2, he was also proficient in Jar Kai. And his precognition abilities were also amazing.
So nothing indicates that he wasn’t exceptional.

[b]after the battle of the star forge. Yusanis are non force sencetives, and using malak as a reference for his saber skills is circular reasoning. 🙄 Educate me on what jar kai is.

So being a Sentinel means she would was not interested in honing her skills with a Lightsaber?

Prove that she had honed her skills with a lightsaber and was not just "interested"

Dude! Some people argue that Yoda was a Jedi Consular and yet we know that he was also a master swordsman. [/quote]
Some argue. This is neither a proven point or a very helpful one for you.

Now Bastilla Shan even constructed a Double-Bladed Lightsaber and was it for fun? It makes sense for a person like Maul to construct a Double-Bladed Lightsaber, since it would be highly useful in taking on multiple enemy combatants simultaneously. So why would Bastilla make such a move? Better think on this point.

since it would be highly useful in taking on multiple enemy combatants simultaneously.

I love it when people answer their own question in asking it.

We also know that the Jedi Council sent her with the Jedi Strike Team to confront Darth Revan on his flagship. Now her Battle Meditation ability was indeed essential but so were her fighting skills as well. Do you think that the Jedi Council would send some half @ssed Jedi to battle the Sith and their Dark Lord?

There were alot of other no names in the jedi strike team; bastilla is just one of them. Maybe her mastery is in the force. Either way, a consular is supposed to be balanced in the force and in combat skills. Her battle meditation was probably the reason she was sent. Once again, since you can't say exactly why she was sent, what skill does this prove she could use against malak?

Seriously dude! You and some others need to think more logically.
Dude! You again failed to focus at my point.
Within just 2 seconds, Malak ignited his Lightsaber, blocked all the blaster fire and than counter-attacked. And keep in mind that he was attacked from very close.
Now in contrast to this, when Jango Fett opened fire on a Jedi from close distance, he was doomed during AOTC in the Battle of the Clones.
So once again! You need to pay more attention to my comments.

he was expecting a fight. he came packing his lightsaber. The jedi jango killed was using form IV,which is not a profeciency in any particular form. He was also an expendable no name.

Star Wars: Champions of the Force was featured in the official Star Wars website, so what does this means?

no. Tell me.

Wrong dude! Not every Tom, Dick and Harry is attributed with that kind of comment.

Read dssb and see what i mean. Everyone gets some sort of a "Devastating force user" atypical comment.

Since when was Dooku proficient in Force Lightning?
Unless his stats match that of Malak, you don’t have a point.

He was the order's greatest padawan/student. How can you tell they don't match malak's or even greatly surpass?

"The best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force? Best of all, Dooku would be! Our greatest student! Our greatest failure."
¯Yoda[src]

according do The new essential guide to characters, Dooku has bested WINDU at sparring.

According to labyrinth of evil, only windu and yoda could stand up to dooku on even ground.

from wookiepedia: In the Galician and Portuguese languages, "do cu" (pronounced exactly as in "Dooku"😉 literally means "from the ass". For this reason, Dooku's name was changed to "Dookan" in Brazil.[86]

His attack destroyed that bridge however and Luke retreated a bit. People also argue that he wasn’t trying to kill his son.

people argue. Nobody has proven.

I agree here but I must remind you that he was the greatest student of his age.

it says nothing about his age. He was the greatest student of the entire counsel of coruscaunt, meaning he outshines all previous students, including revan and the exile.

Wrong dude! Not every Tom, Dick and Harry is attributed with that kind of comment.

go through dssb. Even brandon has something to this extent said about him.

From your list Revan, Kun, Luke and Sidious are exceptions however.
He also said that he became more powerful than Revan.

oh yes, and malak would never overinflate his opinion of himself. noooo. 🙄

To quote Obi-Wan Kenobi: “I don’t think” [/B]

Elite Hunter Senior Member

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Dude! Every Sith Lord would get the so called normal dark side boost on the Star Forge.
Though! To get empowered by it in such a manner that an individual becomes nearly unstoppable requires more than just staying on it.
Is this so hard to understand?
It shows that he understands Star Forge far better by that time.
Yes! He would but that happened to all the Sith stationed on it. But Malak still seemed to benefit more than that, right?
Here is a clue: "The Star Forge was doing exactly what Malak wanted it to do." Now go figure!

I reread our debate and I believe we were misunderstanding the problem. You originally said that Malak would get a boost on Vjun and i said than Dooku would logically get the same boost from the star forge. Then you said that he wouldn't get a boost (which i interpreted as the normal boost) because he doesn't know the secrets of it which is bs. However since you are referring to the secrets that Malak unlocked which was the star forge being able to hold jedi captive and drain them, i would say if he were to drain one jedi in combat vs dooku than it is very probable that dooku could figure out what just happened to Malak.

Lord Knightfa11 Restricted

what i am so curious about is how he alwas follows the first word of every paragraph with an exclamation mark.

Dude!

Yes!

Though! (wth? this doesnt make any sense)

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
after the battle of the star forge.

During the battle of the Star Forge, Revan demonstrated amazing display of power, skill and maturity. And for this, he was declared to be a prodigy in a ceremony held after that battle. Is it clear now?

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
Yusanis are non force sencetives

Yusanis was probably not a Force sensitive but he still was far from ordinary.

1) He was the greatest Echani warrior ever known and among the best swordsmen of his age.
2) He possessed advanced precognitive abilities.
3) He was undefeated in combat before he met Revan.

So taking down an individual of such repute is not a joke.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
and using malak as a reference for his saber skills is circular reasoning.

Malak was also among the elite swordsmen of his age.

A Star Wars author told me that Malak also practiced Juyo during his days as a Dark Lord.

Even the SW:COTF points out that he was a great duelist.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
Educate me on what jar kai is.

Jar Kai is an advanced sub-form of Form VI of Lightsaber combat. It permits a Jedi to wield two Lightsabers. During the duel, one Lightsaber is used for attacking, while the other is used for defending. This Form works well for aggressive swordsmen. Many Jedi who prefer to master double-bladed Lightsaber based dueling, do practice this Form.

The practitioners of the Jar Kai include some great names such as: Maul, Kavar, Kas'im and Luke.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
Prove that she had honed her skills with a lightsaber and was not just "interested"

It makes more sense for a Jedi who gives high priority to boosting his dueling skills and wishes to become a master swordsman (a Jedi Guardian for example) to use such a weapon, since he would like to even take on multiple adversaries in a duel with it simultaneously, if situation demands such a move (i.e. Darth Maul) or he would prefer to do better against the other double-bladed Lightsaber wielders or even practitioners of Jar Kai.

But in the case of Bastilla, if she wasn't trying to hone her skills with a double-bladed Lightsaber, then why would she like to use such a weapon? It could be possible that she wanted to become so skilled that she would be able to take on multiple opponents with a Lightsaber, if situation demands.

The thing is that you can't prove that she sucked or something or wasn’t trying to improve her dueling abilities. She also gained a lot of experience, when fighting along side Revan during the events of KOTOR.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
Some argue. This is neither a proven point or a very helpful one for you.

It means that a Jedi can give high priority to both: 1) Skills with a Lightsaber and 2) Mastery in the Force, regardless of his/her class.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
I love it when people answer their own question in asking it.

The correct answer is that you still failed to understand the logic behind that comment and its purpose.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
There were alot of other no names in the jedi strike team; bastilla is just one of them. Maybe her mastery is in the force.

Her mastery in the Force was important and also her skills with a Lightsaber because she and her peers had to face large number of Dark Jedi on Revan' flagship before reaching his place. And she also killed Revan’ personal Dark Jedi in-front of him, which once again indicates that she did not sucked.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
Either way, a consular is supposed to be balanced in the force and in combat skills.

No! The Consular is supposed to focus more on mastery in the Force.

The Sentinel is however supposed to be balanced or focus on both.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
Her battle meditation was probably the reason she was sent.

That was one of the reasons pointed out but her skills were also important, because if she would die early in the combat than her Battle Meditation would be useless and the Jedi would loose all hope.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
Once again, since you can't say exactly why she was sent, what skill does this prove she could use against malak?

I have pointed out the reasons above and explained with logic that why she would not suck.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
he was expecting a fight. he came packing his lightsaber. The jedi jango killed was using form IV,which is not a profeciency in any particular form. He was also an expendable no name.

Malak had not ignited his Lightsaber yet when Carth opened fire on him. And since Malak blocked all the fire successfully in a very short span of time, it indicates that he must be using a different Saber Form than Niman.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
no. Tell me.

Does the word canon rings any bells?

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
Read dssb and see what i mean. Everyone gets some sort of a "Devastating force user" atypical comment.

This is not enough. Post some examples.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
He was the order's greatest padawan/student. How can you tell they don't match malak's or even greatly surpass?

Yoda actually made that comment and he could be comparing him with all the students he trained.

But what about names like Anakin, Revan and Luke?

And just by stating a comment like that, one does not automatically matches the power of a Dark Lord who was stated to possess devastating dark side power.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
according do The new essential guide to characters, Dooku has bested WINDU at sparring.

I never doubted Dooku' exceptional skills with a Lightsaber. He might have an edge on Malak in this case but who knows?

Makashi has its limitations as well and that's why more Lightsaber Forms were introduced with passage of time.

And in a proper duel against Mace Windu, he fled.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
According to labyrinth of evil, only windu and yoda could stand up to dooku on even ground.

He fled when he faced them both in one-on-one combat situation. And if only these two could stand up to him, than how the hell Anakin bested him?

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
people argue. Nobody has proven.

Luke himself said that.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
it says nothing about his age. He was the greatest student of the entire counsel of coruscaunt, meaning he outshines all previous students, including revan and the exile.

That is a speculation at best since the Order's history includes the Chosen One as well.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
go through dssb. Even brandon has something to this extent said about him.

It is Bandon and not Brandon.

Bandon has been highly praised even in his official profile in Star Wars Databank. He was indeed a very promising Sith and one of most skilled warriors in his time.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
oh yes, and malak would never overinflate his opinion of himself. noooo. 🙄

I already used the term "It could be a bit of stretch."

Elite Hunter Senior Member

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
A Star Wars author told me that Malak also practiced Juyo during his days as a Dark Lord.

Let me guess....Was it Drew? Regardless the author is not a canon source if we were take everything the authors(notably Karen traviss) says that is not included in the books than Boba Fett and the Mandalorians would be a greater rival to the jedi than the sith. Bottom line malak knowing juyo needs to come from a canon source. If we were to guess Malak's form based on gameplay it would more likely be a Makashi variant due to him using one hand for lightsaber dueling a good portion of his duel vs revan.

He fled when he faced them both in one-on-one combat situation. And if only these two could stand up to him, than how the hell Anakin bested him?

If the LOE quote is accurate than it does not contradict the movie seeing as how it did still occur later than LOE even if it was not by much.

Lord Knightfa11 Restricted

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
[B]During the battle of the Star Forge, Revan demonstrated amazing display of power, skill and maturity. And for this, he was declared to be a prodigy in a ceremony held after that battle. Is it clear now?

1. I am not arguing against revan's skill.
2. The revan that faced malak on the star forge and malak somehow survived against was still without any memories of tecniques or powers from his previous life; making him the equivelent of a gifted padawan.
3. When malak did go up against the all powerful revan with his knowledge of the darkside and the lightside, he was star forge powered and had an ungodly head start against revan; and still lost. This says alot about malak's lack of skill, or alot for revan's power. I prefer a medium of both.

Malak was also among the elite swordsmen of his age.

no duh. How could he be the sith lord and not be? My arguement is, who are the ones hes above? any amaizing godlike people? Thought not.

A Star Wars author told me that Malak also practiced Juyo during his days as a Dark Lord.

Yaaay! three cheers for "a star wars author" fyi, just because some star wars author told you something does not make it cannon, because it is not approved by george lucas, and he could have just farted that out on the spur of the moment.

Even the SW:COTF points out that he was a great duelist.

As it does for dooku, if I am not mistaken.

Jar Kai is an advanced sub-form of Form VI of Lightsaber combat. It permits a Jedi to wield two Lightsabers. During the duel, one Lightsaber is used for attacking, while the other is used for defending. This Form works well for aggressive swordsmen. Many Jedi who prefer to master double-bladed Lightsaber based dueling, do practice this Form.
The practitioners of the Jar Kai include some great names such as: Maul, Kavar, Kas'im and Luke.

Yay. Unfortunately, your not backing me into the "revan is crap" corner.

It makes more sense for a Jedi who gives high priority to boosting his dueling skills and wishes to become a master swordsman (a Jedi Guardian for example) to use such a weapon, since he would like to even take on multiple adversaries in a duel with it simultaneously, if situation demands such a move (i.e. Darth Maul) or he would prefer to do better against the other double-bladed Lightsaber wielders or even practitioners of Jar Kai.
But in the case of Bastilla, if she wasn't trying to hone her skills with a double-bladed Lightsaber, then why would she like to use such a weapon?

To be unique. I do not care. This is pure speculation.

It could be possible that she wanted to become so skilled that she would be able to take on multiple opponents with a Lightsaber, if situation demands.

could be... possible... Get a point. You are also greeted with several no names in the koriban training facility who use a saber staff.

The thing is that you can't prove that she sucked or something or wasn’t trying to improve her dueling abilities. She also gained a lot of experience, when fighting along side Revan during the events of KOTOR.

The thing is you can't prove she was good or something or was trying to improve her dueling abilities. She can, and may be excelent, but not even close to on par with dooku. Unless you can prove that bastila is anywhere near close to dooku in skill/force abilities, you have no point.

It means that a Jedi can give high priority to both: 1) Skills with a Lightsaber and 2) Mastery in the Force, regardless of his/her class.
The correct answer is that you still failed to understand the logic behind that comment and its purpose.

I understand the logic and its purpose. IT is to imply that since bastila has a double bladed lightsaber, she MUST be supremely saber orriented and ungodly good.

she and her peers had to face large number of Dark Jedi on Revan' flagship before reaching his place.

speculation yet again.

And she also killed Revan’ personal Dark Jedi in-front of him, which once again indicates that she did not sucked.

Yay, she killed revan's flunkies.

No! The Consular is supposed to focus more on mastery in the Force.
The Sentinel is however supposed to be balanced or focus on both.

Doesn't mean they have to be good at both, they can suck at both.

That was one of the reasons pointed out but her skills were also important, because if she would die early in the combat than her Battle Meditation would be useless and the Jedi would loose all hope.

Um... yea... As i said before, this is speculation and educated guesses. I am kind of tired of giving you a good talking to about bastila, when she doesnt even really impact this fight. Unless you can prove she is close to dooku in power/skill, i see no point in arguing Bastila's case furthur.

why she would not suck.

Yay. she doesnt suck. she cant even compare with dooku.

Malak had not ignited his Lightsaber yet when Carth opened fire on him. And since Malak blocked all the fire successfully in a very short span of time, it indicates that he must be using a different Saber Form than Niman.

yaya! he blocked blasterfire! godly power!
1. How is he going to use this against revan?
2. How is he going to use this against revan?

This is not enough. Post some examples.

Darth bandon, whom is nothing special.
From the official starwars profile of Darth Bandon:

=> There he embraced the dark side and the way of the Sith with every fiber of his being. His great strength in the Force, his natural cruelty and his absolute ruthlessness in his quest for power soon set him apart from his fellow students, and drew the calculating eye of Lord Malak himself.

Yoda actually made that comment and he could be comparing him with all the students he trained.
And just by stating a comment like that, one does not automatically matches the power of a Dark Lord who was stated to possess devastating dark side power.

Just by stating a quote like "devastating darkside power" one does not automatically match the power of a Dark Lord who was stated to be the greatest student of the jedi counsil on coruscaunt.

I never doubted Dooku' exceptional skills with a Lightsaber. He might have an edge on Malak in this case but who knows?

He does.

Makashi has its limitations as well and that's why more Lightsaber Forms were introduced with passage of time.

yea... and makashi is the single best dueling form.

And in a proper duel against Mace Windu, he fled.

Yay. He said that mace windu was the only one who could stand up to him on even ground. Not that mace windu wasn't slightly better.

He fled when he faced them both in one-on-one combat situation. And if only these two could stand up to him, than how the hell Anakin bested him? [/quote]
Hes the chosen one, and the fact that noobikin bested him does not undo a cannon quote. Anakin won through sheer brute strength and the old man could not withstand his "meteorlike" blows.

Luke himself said that.

and luke knew how? how did he know, or was this blind speculation that vader was on the light side?

That is a speculation at best since the Order's history includes the Chosen One as well.

Well he left before your god awful chosen one was anything special, so history does not=the chosen one.

Bandon has been highly praised even in his official profile in Star Wars Databank. He was indeed a very promising Sith and one of most skilled warriors in his time.

see? these types of quotes go for everyone, yet what has bandon done? what feats has he shown? NONE.

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
I reread our debate and I believe we were misunderstanding the problem. You originally said that Malak would get a boost on Vjun and i said than Dooku would logically get the same boost from the star forge. Then you said that he wouldn't get a boost (which i interpreted as the normal boost) because he doesn't know the secrets of it which is bs. However since you are referring to the secrets that Malak unlocked which was the star forge being able to hold jedi captive and drain them, i would say if he were to drain one jedi in combat vs dooku than it is very probable that dooku could figure out what just happened to Malak.

OK! I will be more clear this time!

We know that Star Forge and Vjun are two places filled with dark side energies. Now a powerful Sith Lord should be able to tap in to these energies and boost his power. Dooku did this on Vjun and Malak did this on Star Forge.

Now the Star Forge is more than just a place filled with dark side energies. It is like a living organism that can help a Sith Lord in special ways, who can understand its secrets, which would allow him to use its power.

So apart from getting the so called normal dark side boost in the Star Forge, Malak also utiltized its power and capabilities to make himself nearly unstoppable in a duel. And this could only be achieved by understanding its secrets and functions.

Hence! Star Forge can provide additional benefits to a Sith Lord that a planet won't.

Ivalice Restricted

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Hence! Star Forge can provide additional benefits to a Sith Lord that a planet won't.

What additional benefits? Such as draining captive jedi which revan was able to do in kotor?

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by Ivalice
What additional benefits? Such as draining captive jedi which revan was able to do in kotor?

Ivalice!

The Star Forge allowed those Jedi to be kept in Stasis form, preventing them from becoming one with the Force. This allowed Malak to drain them at will to replenish his energies.

Elite Hunter Senior Member

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
OK! I will be more clear this time!
We know that Star Forge and Vjun are two places filled with dark side energies. Now a powerful Sith Lord should be able to tap in to these energies and boost his power. Dooku did this on Vjun and Malak did this on Star Forge.
Now the Star Forge is more than just a place filled with dark side energies. It is like a living organism that can help a Sith Lord in special ways, who can understand its secrets, which would allow him to use its power.

1.Yup
2. It is more of a semi sentient object of the darkside like the darkstaff.

So apart from getting the so called normal dark side boost in the Star Forge, Malak also utiltized its power and capabilities to make himself nearly unstoppable in a duel. And this could only be achieved by understanding its secrets and functions.
Hence! Star Forge can provide additional benefits to a Sith Lord that a planet won't

The only secret that affect his power personally that we see is him draining the jedi captives to regain his power so if Dooku saw him do that, there is nothing stopping him from draining a captive jedi to. ( if he has force drain that is but the point im trying to make is ubiversal for any character with drain) So do post the other secrets of the star forge other than holding the captive jedi hostage for Malak that would affect him personally. And if anything the star forge could hurt him over a long period of time like the rakata (but that is not a factor here). As he says it feeds on the darkside in them.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The Star Forge allowed those Jedi to be kept in Stasis form, preventing them from becoming one with the Force. This allowed Malak to drain them at will to replenish his energies.

Yea and there is nothing that suggests that people like sidious,kun or Traya cant walk onto the star forge and drain them too.

DARTH POWER Senior Member

Originally posted by Ivalice
I believe he is roughly on the same level as OT vader in sheer power and mastery.

yeah I agree.. he does seem to be about that powerful with the Force. which wuld make him approx 80% of Sidious.

probably a higher % when compared to Yoda as Sidious seemed to have the edge over Yoda in Force powers.

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
The only secret that affect his power personally that we see is him draining the jedi captives to regain his power so if Dooku saw him do that, there is nothing stopping him from draining a captive jedi to. ( if he has force drain that is but the point im trying to make is ubiversal for any character with drain) So do post the other secrets of the star forge other than holding the captive jedi hostage for Malak that would affect him personally. And if anything the star forge could hurt him over a long period of time like the rakata (but that is not a factor here). As he says it feeds on the darkside in them.

The Star Forge helped Malak build and maintain a permanent energy supply-line which allowed him to stay and fight back in a duel for a long period of time or else he wouldn't have lasted that long. That's why when his energy supply-line was cut, he actually fell.

Hence! The Star Forge gave Malak an additional advantage apart from boosting his power with dark side energies. Now what Star Forge did for Malak during that final duel is a feat that a planet won't do for any Sith Lord.

Another example is the case of the Bastilla Shan:

She herself stood no chance against Revan in a one-on-one fight. So when she faced him in combat, the Star Forge directly aided her with its power, which allowed her to stand up to Revan for a long period of time, as the Star Forge itself quickly replenished her energies and power during the duel, whenever it was necessary. Hence! It was not a fair contest at all as well.

But it should be kept in mind that the Star Forge helped Bastilla Shan because Malak wanted it to do that. The Star Forge was doing exactly what Malak wanted it to do and how this was possible? Unlike any other Sith Lord, Malak did not limited his contact with the Star Forge and thus managed to tap in to its secrets and power, which gave him a distinct advantage and made him nearly unstoppable. This is one of his biggest feats. He became so powerful during his reign as the Dark Lord that he managed to control the Star Forge after he tried to tap in to its power and learn its secrets. Probably his great strength in the Force helped him, for Star Forge only served those who were masters of the Dark Side. Hence the DSSB points out that Malak possessed devastating dark side power.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
Yea and there is nothing that suggests that people like sidious,kun or Traya cant walk onto the star forge and drain them too.

The creation of a permanent energy supply-line with help from Star Forge' technology by Malak and the prevention of the Jedi captives from becoming one with the Force by the Star Forge itself is what I am talking about.

All Malak did then was to drain them whenever it was necessary, which helped him to prolong the fight.

I agree that other Sith Lords who know Force Drain can also benefit from this help. But they need to know the secrets of the Star Forge first before they would be able to take advantage of its help or otherwise they would never know what Star Forge is capable of doing and would not be able to build an energy supply-line like that. This is where Malak gets the distinction because he knows what Star Forge is capable of and how to take benefit from its power.

Lt. Valerian Republic Navy

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Malak also utiltized its power and capabilities to make himself nearly unstoppable in a duel.

Actually, no.

It was never stated that Malak was nearly unstoppable in a duel, the quote refers to him being nearly unstoppable in terms of military forces and galactic conquest, not dueling.

Elite Hunter Senior Member

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The Star Forge helped Malak build and maintain a permanent energy supply-line which allowed him to stay and fight back in a duel for a long period of time or else he wouldn't have lasted that long. That's why when his energy supply-line was cut, he actually fell.
Hence! The Star Forge gave Malak an additional advantage apart from boosting his power with dark side energies. Now what Star Forge did for Malak during that final duel is a feat that a planet won't do for any Sith Lord.

The exact knowledge of the duel remains unknown. We know that Malak drained a captive at least once. The star forge was essentially re-powering him to continue fighting. However that doesn't mean he would have the chance vs other opponents who are better than Revan in lightsaber combat. And a case could be made for Sion getting energy from Malachor (and likely korriban or other darkside worlds) to heal himself after fighting the exile.

But it should be kept in mind that the Star Forge helped Bastilla Shan because Malak wanted it to do that. The Star Forge was doing exactly what Malak wanted it to do and how this was possible? Unlike any other Sith Lord, Malak did not limited his contact with the Star Forge and thus managed to tap in to its secrets and power, which gave him a distinct advantage and made him nearly unstoppable. This is one of his biggest feats. He became so powerful during his reign as the Dark Lord that he managed to control the Star Forge after he tried to tap in to its power and learn its secrets. Probably his great strength in the Force helped him, for Star Forge only served those who were masters of the Dark Side. Hence the DSSB points out that Malak possessed devastating dark side power.

Good for him he could control the star forge and how many other sith could do that if they were alive? A lot of the powerhouses could easily do it i given the chance.

The creation of a permanent energy supply-line with help from Star Forge' technology by Malak and the prevention of the Jedi captives from becoming one with the Force by the Star Forge itself is what I am talking about.

No duh

All Malak did then was to drain them whenever it was necessary, which helped him to prolong the fight.

Um ,that was my whole point the only thing the star forge does that a planet would not be able to do is replenish his power by draining the captive jedi. A sith who is fightning Malak sees this can does the same thing for himself.

I agree that other Sith Lords who know Force Drain can also benefit from this help. But they need to know the secrets of the Star Forge first before they would be able to take advantage of its help or otherwise they would never know what Star Forge is capable of doing and would not be able to build an energy supply-line like that. This is where Malak gets the distinction because he knows what Star Forge is capable of and how to take benefit from its power.

They see Malak drains a jedi and they noticed the difference in him and they do the same do get their energy restored.It's monkey see-monkey do here. You don't have to be a genius to figure out what happened to him. Unless of course you could prove that the star forge wouldn't allow Kun or Sidious from draining the jedi which of course you can't.

Essentially Malak's big secret would only help him once vs any powerhouse before they do the same and depending on who it is they kill him.

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by Lt. Valerian
Actually, no.
It was never stated that Malak was nearly unstoppable in a duel, the quote refers to him being nearly unstoppable in terms of military forces and galactic conquest, not dueling.

That comment was also aimed towards Malak. Remember that they used the term "Malak was nearly unstoppable" and not "Malak' Sith Empire was nearly unstoppable."

Hence they were pointing out towards both: A) Malak and B) His Sith Empire, in that single comment. Malak used the Star Forge to become nearly unstoppable himself as well.