Darth malak vs count dooku · Star Wars Versus Forum

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
The exact knowledge of the duel remains unknown. We know that Malak drained a captive at least once. The star forge was essentially re-powering him to continue fighting.

He drained Jedi captives as indicated in his official profile.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
However that doesn't mean he would have the chance vs other opponents who are better than Revan in lightsaber combat.

Fights in Star Wars do not always come down to pure Lightsaber combat. Also keep in mind that DSSB pointed out that on the Star Forge, Malak' gained extraordinary powers. He was defeated only after his supply-line was cut. Though you have a point that a very skilled swordsman might be able to land a fatal blow on Malak, provided he gets lucky enough and does not becomes victim of Malak' extraordinary Force powers first.

So things aren't as black & white as we would like to perceive them to be. And Revan is a great deal ahead of Dooku in terms of power and skills. Hence very few individuals would be able to best him on the Star Forge.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
And a case could be made for Sion getting energy from Malachor (and likely korriban or other darkside worlds) to heal himself after fighting the exile.

Sion had already achieved the so called immortality and on Malachor V, his power was further boosted.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
Good for him he could control the star forge and how many other sith could do that if they were alive? A lot of the powerhouses could easily do it i given the chance.

To control the Star Forge, the criteria is as follows:

1) The individual should be a Force Sensitive and strong in the Force.
2) The individual should be trained to use the Dark Side.
3) The individual needs to learn the secrets of the Star Forge.

Very few people meet the first two criteria. The 3rd depends upon the level of interest of a Sith Lord. Since Star Forge is a very deadly object, few would like to mess with it.

And there aren't a lot of powerhouses even in the history of Sith.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
Um ,that was my whole point the only thing the star forge does that a planet would not be able to do is replenish his power by draining the captive jedi. A sith who is fightning Malak sees this can does the same thing for himself.

You still did not get it. The Star Forge helps Malak in establishing a huge energy supply-line, which he would use to his benefit in the duel. The only criteria is that the Sith Lord must have knowledge of Force Drain.

If the opponent knows the Force Drain, than he can also take advantage but that Dark Lord should be very powerful in the Force as well. However in this case, Dooku has not demonstrated such abilities and neither have Maul and Vader. Only Sidious knows it.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
They see Malak drains a jedi and they noticed the difference in him and they do the same do get their energy restored.It's monkey see-monkey do here. You don't have to be a genius to figure out what happened to him. Unless of course you could prove that the star forge wouldn't allow Kun or Sidious from draining the jedi which of course you can't.

Sidious is indeed an exception. Not only he is smart but he knows Force Drain, so it would be monkey see-monkey do situation with him. And if Kun knows Force Drain than he would also have a chance.

Though I would hate to repeat it again but it is true that both Kun and Sidious are also a great deal ahead of Dooku in terms of power and skill.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
Essentially Malak's big secret would only help him once vs any powerhouse before they do the same and depending on who it is they kill him.

Agreed!

But the opponent must have knowledge of Force Drain and should be extraordinarly powerful in the Force.

Lt. Valerian Republic Navy

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
That comment was also aimed towards Malak. Remember that they used the term "[b]Malak was nearly unstoppable" and not "Malak' Sith Empire was nearly unstoppable."
Hence they were pointing out towards both: A) Malak and B) His Sith Empire, in that single comment. Malak used the Star Forge to become nearly unstoppable himself as well. [/B]

No, of course they wouldn't go and say "Malak's Sith Empire was nearly unstoppable", they would point out the responsible of these major galactic events instead of referring to his whole army.

And still, Revan bunkers down that argument by taking Malak out one-on-one, empowered by the Star Forge. Clearly, he was not even close to being "nearly unstoppable" in a duel, as other Jedi and Sith of different eras are notably more powerful and would've taken down the Sith Lord more easily.

Lord Tyranus "Nerd maker funner of-er"

Look at my screenname and ask me what I think...

Blax_Hydralisk Restricted

Oh shit.

Where you been, man?

Lord Tyranus "Nerd maker funner of-er"

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Oh shit.
Where you been, man?

MySpace. 😐

Blax_Hydralisk Restricted

It swallows us all. 😐

Lord Tyranus "Nerd maker funner of-er"

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
It swallows us all. 😐

Lol no kiddin. Actually I just remembered my name and password to this place like a half hour ago and decided to start pissin of the "real" Star Wars Fans with my crude attitude again...haha

ThoraxeRMG The Last Boss

Thanks to you I experimented with Shricken.
It's pain to stick them inside the wings though, but good as hell.

Ivalice Restricted

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
That comment was also aimed towards Malak. Remember that they used the term "[b]Malak was nearly unstoppable" and not "Malak' Sith Empire was nearly unstoppable."
Hence they were pointing out towards both: A) Malak and B) His Sith Empire, in that single comment. Malak used the Star Forge to become nearly unstoppable himself as well. [/B]

You seriously need to learn to read properly legend, we may be on friendly terms but your sheer stubborness(which is comparable to nebaris) is getting EXTREMELY irritating.

Didn't you see "malak was nearly unstoppable, but the republic emerged victorious"?

That ALONE was in reference to malaks military power. Hell going by your logic, if some author stated "sadam was nearly unstoppable, but the united states army emerged victorious", does it mean sadam, some tyrant whom would get his ass kicked damn easily by any elite soldier is unstoppable as an individual?

@BTW have you played mass effect?

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by Ivalice
You seriously need to learn to read properly legend, we may be on friendly terms but your sheer stubborness(which is comparable to nebaris) is getting EXTREMELY irritating.
Didn't you see "malak was nearly unstoppable, but the republic emerged victorious"?
That ALONE was in reference to malaks military power. Hell going by your logic, if some author stated "sadam was nearly unstoppable, but the united states army emerged victorious", does it mean sadam, some tyrant whom would get his ass kicked damn easily by any elite soldier is unstoppable as an individual?

You love to pick some random lines and than use them in debates?

From Malak' official profile: The Sith Lord had grotesquely adapted the Rakatan device to draw energy directly from chained Jedi captives. He replenished his life force from the captives by draining theirs. Malak was nearly unstoppable.

Now don't you think that Malak had done something to make himself nearly unstoppable as well?

The Star Forge was helping both Malak and his military simultaneously. It made them both nearly unstoppable. Hence this line: Malak was nearly unstoppable, but the Republic emerged from that epic conflict victorious, as the Star Forge was eventually destroyed.

So what is the key here? The answer is: The Star Forge. So when it was destroyed, the game was over.

And did they mentioned anything about the role of Revan in that war? NO. Only an over-view of the events have been provided in that official profile and many details have been skipped. The word "Malak" refers to himself and also indirectly points towards his Empire. So try to understand the logic behind it.

And using the analogy of Sadam as a comparison is absurd. He is not a Jedi or a super-commando.

Ivalice Restricted

You know legend the only thing im interested to know now is weather you played mass effect 🙂. I kind of lost the spirit to debate so it no longer interests me.

No hard feelings though.

Darth Maliko Jedi Knight

Re: Darth malak vs count dooku

Originally posted by Ivalice
I did try searching this but i only recall seeing SF malak vs dooku.
Anyways setting is on Vjun.
So basically its vjun empowered dooku(similar to SF powered malak) vs malak.
Saber
Force
All out

Under these conditions, I'd have to say Dooku takes it.
And if it were Vjun Dooku vs. SF Malak, then Malak would have it.

Gideon Restricted

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You love to pick some random lines and than use them in debates?
From Malak' official profile: The Sith Lord had grotesquely adapted the Rakatan device to draw energy directly from chained Jedi captives. He replenished his life force from the captives by draining theirs. Malak was nearly unstoppable.
Now don't you think that Malak had done something to make himself nearly unstoppable as well?
The Star Forge was helping both Malak and his military simultaneously. It made them both nearly unstoppable. Hence this line: Malak was nearly unstoppable, but the Republic emerged from that epic conflict victorious, [b]as the Star Forge was eventually destroyed.
So what is the key here? The answer is: The Star Forge. So when it was destroyed, the game was over.
And did they mentioned anything about the role of Revan in that war? NO. Only an over-view of the events have been provided in that official profile and many details have been skipped. The word "Malak" refers to himself and also indirectly points towards his Empire. So try to understand the logic behind it.
And using the analogy of Sadam as a comparison is absurd. He is not a Jedi or a super-commando. [/B]

Actually, the point that they raise is very valid. Numerous historians and historical records reference how the Allied Forces "did battle with Hitler" -- even though the German dictator was never on the frontlines and never waged battle, personally, against any of his foes. Add to the fact that the context of the situation supports that theory: it wasn't the Republic versus just Malak, it was the Republic versus Sith. The Star Forge is referenced because it was the foundry that supplied the Sith with their fighters and ships, another reference to Malak's forces -- not the man himself.

Noscopever Junior Member

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
OK! I will be more clear this time!
So apart from getting the so called normal dark side boost in the Star Forge, Malak also utiltized its power and capabilities to make himself nearly unstoppable in a duel. And this could only be achieved by understanding its secrets and functions.
Hence! Star Forge can provide additional benefits to a Sith Lord that a planet won't.

So what would his "boost" be? Malak doesn't use the force as much as Dooku, therefore his ties to the force must be weaker than those of Tryannus. Furthermore, even with his "boost", Dooku was trained by The Emperor, and as you and I both know, in a duel, The Emperor would destroy Malak.

I remember from KotOR Malak's skill with a lightsaber, but he could be the greatest sith warrior, and still Count Dooku would defeat him, simply because he is stronger with the force. When it comes right down to it, as Kreia said: "Nothing is impossible throught the force. The Force drives all things. The slightest touch, the slighest action, will create an echo which can destroy worlds."

Lord Knightfa11 Restricted

Originally posted by Noscopever
So what would his "boost" be? Malak doesn't use the force as much as Dooku, therefore his ties to the force must be weaker than those of Tryannus. Furthermore, even with his "boost", Dooku was trained by The Emperor, and as you and I both know, in a duel, The Emperor would destroy Malak.

you are either authentically new, or you are noobaris. Either way, I am not going to be abrasive, I am going to tell you where you are wrong.
1. Using the force in rarity does not suggest that one does not have alot of force power. Ex.: Cade Skywalker can use the force to heal to the point of preventing death, and yet turns away from the jedi and tries as little as possible to use the force. This does not make him "weaker" then a padawan who can and will use the force.
2. The emperor destroying malak would not be relevant at this point, because Dooku is not the emperor, and is not even close to the emperor.
3. Prove that their ties to the force are at different levels.

I remember from KotOR Malak's skill with a lightsaber, but he could be the greatest sith warrior, and still Count Dooku would defeat him, simply because he is stronger with the force. When it comes right down to it, as Kreia said: "Nothing is impossible throught the force. The Force drives all things. The slightest touch, the slighest action, will create an echo which can destroy worlds."

There are people on these forums who would pick this apart as speculation and flame your ass out of KMC for this speculation.

IAMBATMAN Restricted

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

2. The emperor destroying malak would not be relevant at this point, because Dooku is not the emperor, and is not even close to the emperor.

It is, because dooku is roughly as powerful as vader when it comes to force mastery and vader is close to sidious in power.

Lord Knightfa11 Restricted

Dooku>vader>sideous. Not even close.

IAMBATMAN Restricted

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
Dooku>vader>sideous. Not even close.

Did you see the word force mastery or are you too egoistic to even bother understanding what the term meant?

Hell dooku's force mastery spans several decades and it rivals vaders( vaders raw power surpasses dooku)

So obviously dooku has mastered the force to a higher degree than malak.

Lord Knightfa11 Restricted

Originally posted by IAMBATMAN
It is, because dooku is roughly as powerful as vader when it comes to force mastery and vader is close to sidious in power.

Since you posted it, the burden is on you to prove/back it up. I am not on malak's side, either. Tyrranus wtfpwnz him, want my reasons? go back a page or two.
1. prove that dooku is roughly as powerful as vader.
2. 80% is not close enough so that you could have sideous kill malak on vader's behalf and use that as an arguement for vader vs malak. It would be far more difficult and far fetched to try to prove that Dooku is equal to vader and thus 80% of sideous. It is even harder to then say that sence sideous could curbstomp malak and vader is 80% of sideous, and dooku is equal to vader in terms of force power, so that sideous wins. This is because you are relying on a few things that turn out to be pure speculation.
1. How easily sids would tool malak in the force.
To prove that someone 80% of sideous could take malak, you would have to prove how easily sideous takes out malak. Although everyone will probably speculate on the relatively easy side, this will prove very hard to prove.
2. How does dooku match vader? The best way to find out is to compare them both to sideous. However, since they were both under sideous at different times, you can expect that vader will probably be more powerful at his peak. If you were to argue that dooku=80% of sideous, you would probably go so far as rots sideous. If you were to argue that Vader is 80% of sideous, the g-cannon quote was said about him around the time of the OT. IT would be very hard to compair their abilities.
3. Your whole arguement is based on a faulty use of a disproved system. The a>b>c. Only your a>B>C reads like this:
Dooku just might equal vader who is 80% of Sideous, who could probably easily kill malak.
The parts in bold are the pure speculation parts.

Sidi-Boy Baby Killer

Hmm... I think I'm going with Dooku here. Dooku's saber skills are absolutely incredible, and he's hardly a slouch in lightning and choke, the same techniques that Malak was seen using often; the only advantage Malak would have on Dooku in the force is drain, and seeing as there will be nothing to drain here, and Dooku probably has highly potent force defenses, in addition to his vastly greater experience.

While bringing up Sidious will be relevant due to the fact that he did instruct Dooku in the usage of most dark side techniques, Dooku mentioned how Sidious never bothered to teach him lightsaber techniques. Therefore, Sidious' prowess with a lightsaber is completely irrelevant in this debate.

Also, Knightfall, Dooku is Sidious' probably greatest long-time apprentice (not counting Mustafar Vader), due to his high degree of force mastery and his prowess with the lightsaber; his technical skill is basically the best that can be, and he is also faster and more mobile than suited Vader. While Vader might've learned more dark side abilities than Dooku had, Dooku both had a far longer time to learn the usage of the force, and was also capable of using lightning, something that Vader was simply incapable of doing. Vader's raw power was also significantly decreased after Obi-Wan turned him into roast beef on Mustafar.