Originally posted by DarkC
Since they relocated to Icecrown?According to you, all they’ve done is send in a “scout” force. You believe that they’ve not sent any “major” forces to either. Why are you contradicting yourself now.
Well, why wouldn’t they? They’re in close proximity of the Lich King, who as you say, “hates all life”. I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t miss the chance to easily crush a few sentient races and add them to his own forces, but he’s simply spread too thin right now across the continent.
Very well, explain how.
That’s one race, and by chance they happen to worship the Lich King. However, there are others that remain independent and defiant, like those two I listed. Why are they not exterminated and assimilated yet? I would personally think that a huge undead biped bison would be extremely powerful indeed.
Haha, why would it be stupid? You said that they were found “throughout the world”.
No, they’re not; they’re found in Lordaeron and Quel’Thelas, and a single small instance in Kalimdor.
.”
Two regions in close proximity of another, and a dungeon…I’m sure that constitutes as “throughout the [b]entire worldIt’s as you said in the other thread, simply because the attack is not one element does not mean it is as powerful. I brought that quote up to show you the actual scale of the dragon attack and the impact it has.
Yes, his does.
However….
“has speculated that it is only a matter of time before the Lich King seeks to destroy or dominate all sapient life on Azeroth”
“What? lol, he does, he plans on taking over all life, including the dragons and the TITANS themselves:”Quite often in the World of Warcraft…..plans don’t always work out. Past and present.
And also, as I have said he challenged mortals, not Gods. Simply because he wants to take Gods on isn’t the same as actually challenging them to fight.
Of course not, those are just the hounds near Mannoroc Coven.
There was a cutscene in Warcraft III: RoC that showed a veritable carpet swarm of felhounds rushing over the land, under a burning red sky. It was when someone was describing the Legion to another, I cannot recall the exact campaign or who was narrating. It looked remarkably like a zergling rush.
Felhounds are not to be underestimated, a pack of them killed Ursoc (maybe Ursol, it was one of the bear twins) in but a few scant moments.
How do they prove anything? That’s between you and him, not in this discussion between you and I. It’s two different debates you’re comparing, not two different occurrences in the same one.
[/B]
Where does it say the whole army is relocated to Icecrown? the information merely states that thats the number of beings in icecrown, not that the entire scourge army is there.
Stratholme and the eastern kingdom was already there, we were talking about the Necropolis as being a scout force.
Yout the one guessing here, you cant guess the lich kings plans, just because you think he hates all life...so what if he does? that doesnt mean he is interested in stepping on every ant.....
yes it does, all of Northrend mostly as their main continent, Kalmdor AND most of northern eastern kingdom, their througohut the world all right, they dont have to be in every piece of land to be througohut the world.
Well ime not sure he has the ability to challenge Gods, or if he really cares, the main thing is, he is planning on destroying them, regardless of whether the plan works or not (which the lichking has a better chance of than those before him) he is wanting to do so. If some Dwarf thinks this is true then the Gods and aspects would also know of this.
yes it was when kelthuzard was explaining to arthas, I think its the same video where we see the proof of the LK ability of knowing the future. but this is irrelvent to them being on other worlds at the present. We know their in large numbers but we dont know if their breeding about on planets.
Well its relvent because at the same time with a debate with utrigos ime fine and were both clear and debating nicely...then theres our debate which is hostile....if ime civil in one debate at the same time, you have to be the reason.
but as i said, ime not interested in the slightest, this is my last word on it.
Originally posted by Burning thought
I would like to see the basis of your argument, what is your argument exacltey?yes htat would be nice, a significant portion of the legion invasion force is a few hundred? fair enough let me see this, that owuld be better proof than what ive seen so far from your side.
This is an update where the numbers are specified.. Since I dont have a proper scanner and I am using the webcam, the quality is low.. I will therefore in quotation write what is of importance in the text, as well as mark it with red..
To remind you, I'll write the other two pieces of significant information so that you'll be able to connect the three..
Page 438
"The tiny disk flared so bright that every behemoth save the Earth Warden had to turn their eyes from it. Neltharion ignored the burning sensation in his orbs, so captivated was he.
The Dragon Soul struck.
Its attack came as a flash of the purest golden light, purer than the sun and stars, purer than the moon. It swept down across the demon horde and utterly vaporized the Burning Legion wherever it touched"
Page 439
"Archimonde found himself a commander without anyone to command"
Page 505:
"Now Mannoroth and the others paid much more attention. They had all witnessed its fury, felt its overwhelming power. With it, the black dragon had slaughtered demons and night elves alike by the hundreds"
This is your problem, BT.. Despite what people say, you wont listen to anyones but your own sense.. To you, it didnt make sense that they were only a few hundred, so you claim everyone elses opinions lesse accurate than your own.. You accused those who did claim them to have that number to be wrong.. You wont listen, and that's what make debating with you so boring.. No matter what one say, you want in depth proof of everything.. You cant take anyones word for anything, and when you do get proof you try find ways around it, because it doesnt fit your ideal idea..
I'll quote what you said:
Originally posted by Burning thought
where are you getting these numbers ,from the way i see it, a few tens of thousands are more likely, it was a full scale invasion and even Sarg was trying to get through,
Just because you find it "more likely", doesnt make your opinion stronger.. You havent read the book, so stop accusing those that have for not knowing what they are talking about.. You ask proof for everything that doesnt make sense to you..
Guess what.. Not everything in warcraft follow your logic of whats reasonable.. I have yet to find the doom guard page, but once I do, I'll show it to you.. I personally think you should try listen more to what other people say, rather than trying to contradict or disprove everything that you dont find likely..
Originally posted by Nozdormu
This is your problem, BT.. Despite what people say, you wont listen to anyones but your own sense.. To you, it didnt make sense that they were only a few hundred, so you claim everyone elses opinions lesse accurate than your own.. You accused those who did claim them to have that number to be wrong.. You wont listen, and that's what make debating with you so boring.. No matter what one say, you want in depth proof of everything.. You cant take anyones word for anything, and when you do get proof you try find ways around it, because it doesnt fit your ideal idea..I'll quote what you said:
Just because you find it "more likely", doesnt make your opinion stronger.. You havent read the book, so stop accusing those that have for not knowing what they are talking about.. You ask proof for everything that doesnt make sense to you..
Guess what.. Not everything in warcraft follow your logic of whats reasonable.. I have yet to find the doom guard page, but once I do, I'll show it to you.. I personally think you should try listen more to what other people say, rather than trying to contradict or disprove everything that you dont find likely..
I need proof otherwise it doesnt excist, and now you have a scannar you can show me this so called proof, Ime not just going to shrug and say okie, for example who said that the Dragon that i forget the name of can move 2 miles per wing flap or something in one and tried to say the Doom guard was keeping up with him...then in the other thread Dark C says that the Dragon was not moving at this full speed afterall...see what ime dealing with here? thats why i need proof and evidence.
The books are obviously not helping you, as ive said many times at the moment ive yet to see proof of the full forces, the real speed of a Doom guard, I can accuse all i want, them reading the book doesnt mean they understand it 100% or if they do, for all i know their using a logicial (to them) evaluation from what a dragn has done at speeds, to make out the Doom guards, then Dark C tells me quite clearly the dragon wa snot at full speeds...if it doesnt make sense, half the time It seems ime correct in not believing 100% every word just because theyve read the book, ivep layed all the LOk games but when i say Kain would douche character A and tell them to go and play the game if they dont agree with me, thats not on...thats not enough, people need proof and so do i for claims that sound unnatural to me or them, and so far my judgement has paid off.
Then again not everything in Warcraft lore is relevent and answers various points your debating for example
Originally posted by Nozdormu
Page 505:"Now Mannoroth and the others paid much more attention. They had all witnessed its fury, felt its overwhelming power. With it, the black dragon had slaughtered demons and night elves alike by the [b]hundreds
" [/B]
What do you use this quote as fact for? this doesnt tell me much does it, you see for all I know, this could be the information alone that anyone who has read hte book is basing that the legions numbers are significantly in the hundreds, ive heard the hundred figuire many times yet this quote clearly states Neltharian (is the black dragon is he not using the Demon soul?) that it was "hundreds" of Nightelves AND Demons not just demons, also this doesnt say on it at all that this was the final figuire of the damage he did to the legion, nor is it the damage the entier WoTA trilogy had done to the demons ,if Neltharian alone did hundreds in this must mean the Million figuire had gone down even more so besides the Demon soul event.
No, because thats why I destroy debating points, if I just agreed without proof or evidence after all this so called Book proof people are using to back up claims from diffrent parts of books (the dragon/Doom guard thing for example) I would be a terrible debator, infact I wouldnt really be debating would I.....I need proof, simple, if there is nothing in the books that really says what your telling me and you cant find it..then it obviously doesnt excist and the constant "you should simply agree with people who have the incredible book knowledges!!!" lecture that has been slammed already but in the case of things not excisting would be entirely ridiculous.
Do you mind when you put a quote tell me what evidence your using it for please.
Originally posted by Nozdormu
?Do you want evidence for the evidence? Want me to scan the book cover? The author? The blizzard stamp?
Ill make it clearler, I think I said it wrong, I want you to tell me the point your using the quote from the book for lol
for example if your using one quote to prove legion numbers, Doom guard speed etc etc please make it clear what each quite is supposed to be supporting.
But their not stated numbers of the entire invasion force, thats not only the demons that Neltharian killed which even if that was alone not a good estimate for the entire legion force and second that included Night evles.
Also whos side are you on? ime the one who is trying to find the numbers of Demons destroyed during the War, all the quote sreally tell me is that Archimodne ended up without his army....and how punished the legion were.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Where does it say the whole army is relocated to Icecrown? the information merely states that thats the number of beings in icecrown, not that the entire scourge army is there.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Stratholme and the eastern kingdom was already there, we were talking about the Necropolis as being a scout force.
As I have said, necropolis is a scout force, about a dozen aren’t.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Yout the one guessing here, you cant guess the lich kings plans
Originally posted by Burning thought
just because you think he hates all life...so what if he does? that doesnt mean he is interested in stepping on every ant.....
Your own posts disagree with you, Burning.
Besides, the Taunka and Tuskarr would make powerful undead warriors, and according to you they’re “ants” and could easily be crushed.
Originally posted by Burning thought
yes it does, all of Northrend mostly as their main continent, Kalmdor AND most of northern eastern kingdom, their througohut the world all right, they dont have to be in every piece of land to be througohut the world.
Last time I checked, a single outpost does not condone an entire continent. You’re simply overhyping again.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Well ime not sure he has the ability to challenge Gods, or if he really cares, the main thing is, he is planning on destroying them, regardless of whether the plan works or not (which the lichking has a better chance of than those before him) he is wanting to do so. If some Dwarf thinks this is true then the Gods and aspects would also know of this.
As for the aspects, they likely can guess at his plans, but they really don’t care.
Originally posted by Burning thought
yes it was when kelthuzard was explaining to arthas, I think its the same video where we see the proof of the LK ability of knowing the future. but this is irrelvent to them being on other worlds at the present. We know their in large numbers but we dont know if their breeding about on planets.
Direct quote from Brox, in the first WotA novel.
“Felhounds…where there was one there can be more, if they’re able to feed well…this I saw…”
Originally posted by Burning thought
Well its relvent because at the same time with a debate with utrigos ime fine and were both clear and debating nicely...then theres our debate which is hostile....if ime civil in one debate at the same time, you have to be the reason.but as i said, ime not interested in the slightest, this is my last word on it.
Your actions and demeanor in other debates do not say anything at all about those in this one.
Originally posted by DarkC
Most Scourge are residing in Northrend. The only real areas they hold and control are the Plaguelands.They were there from the beginning, they weren’t “sent” as you had already said.
As I have said, necropolis is a scout force, about a dozen aren’t.
So I assume you can? You just told me that Brann’s judgement > mine, which is what I’m doing. Now you’re telling me that he’s wrong?
No, I don’t “think” hates all life. He does hate all life. According to that quote you gave me he “possesses an endless hatred for the living” and from Brann, “seeks to destroy or dominate ALL sapient life on Azeroth”.
Your own posts disagree with you, Burning.
Besides, the Taunka and Tuskarr would make powerful undead warriors, and according to you they’re “ants” and could easily be crushed.
No, they dominate a continent, two upper regions of another one. The correct saying would be that they’re found throughout Eastern Kingdoms and Quel’Thalas as well as an instance in the Barrens.
Last time I checked, a single outpost does not condone an entire continent. You’re simply overhyping again.
Considering the Pantheon is off shaping other worlds in some distant part of the universe, I severely doubt it. They never once dealt with Azeroth since its creation.
As for the aspects, they likely can guess at his plans, but they really don’t care.
All they really need is mana to multiply.
Direct quote from Brox, in the first WotA novel.
“Felhounds…where there was one there can be more, if they’re able to feed well…this I saw…”
Its true, most are in Northrend, thats makes sense..but you said the scourge relocated to Northrend, where are oyu basing this one? their sitll in Plaguelands and such dude...
no YOU cannot with any creadbility, Brann Bronzebeard however can...
well sure, they would easily be crushed, just like the Legion would be as ime proving in the other thread, most armies would fall before the scourge, the Lich King just obviously isnt interested, otherwise he would have done.
They can be found in all of the areas stated, thats the facth here, there is not a continent I belive that doesnt have them, Kalimdor, Eastern Kingdoms, theres a lot of undead.....add their numbers to the Glaciar, along with the numbers of the entire Northrend as well and the Vykraul race...youve got far more than 250k thats for sure.
Well when the aspects are all frostwyrms they wont have to care about anything but what the LK wants.
Originally posted by Nozdormu
Whos side? What? You were discussing the legions numbers and I scanned them for you..
k, and correction, you scanned the hundreds of demons AND Night elves Neltharian destroyed
Originally posted by Burning thought
Its true, most are in Northrend, thats makes sense..but you said the scourge relocated to Northrend, where are oyu basing this one? their sitll in Plaguelands and such dude...
By relocating, I didn't mean every single last Undead.
Originally posted by Burning thought
no [b]YOU cannot with any creadbility, Brann Bronzebeard however can...[/b]
Originally posted by Burning thought
the Lich King just obviously isnt interested, otherwise he would have done.
If the entirety of Northrend is blanketed in Scourge such as you say, these sentient races would have been dead already, unless you're about to suggest that the Lich King orders the Scourge to leave them alone.
Originally posted by Burning thought
They can be found in all of the areas stated, thats the facth here, there is not a continent I belive that doesnt have them, Kalimdor, Eastern Kingdoms, theres a lot of undead.....add their numbers to the Glaciar, along with the numbers of the entire Northrend as well and the Vykraul race...youve got far more than 250k thats for sure
There's a lot of Undead in the Eastern Kingdoms, but as it is a lot of them are simply wandering around. They lack organization. The population density of undead is going to be low despite their relative high numbers and active presence in those regions, because they're simply scattered all over the place. I'd add maybe 20,000 Undead at most from Azeroth, then add another 100,000 from the rest of Northrend and Vrykul. Their numbers are still not significantly higher.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Well when the aspects are all frostwyrms they wont have to care about anything but what the LK wants.
Originally posted by Burning thought
k, and correction, you scanned the hundreds of demons AND Night elves Neltharian destroyed
Originally posted by Burning thought
k, and correction, you scanned the hundreds of demons AND Night elves Neltharian destroyed
Which left Archimonde a commander without anything to command..
Alright, since you seem to know.. What other units did the Legion have in motion other than the region of the well and in their Azerothian base? Enlighten me..
Originally posted by DarkC
That's because they did, the main embodiment of his forces relocated to Northrend when he decided to go after the Frozen Throne, some were left behind.By relocating, I didn't mean every single last Undead.
If you hadn't noticed by now, I was agreeing with his assessment.
He possesses an endless hatred for all life and he isn't interested in destroying it with but the slightest effort? You make no sense. Obviously the addition of Undead Taunka and Tuskarr would be a powerful addition to the current Undead forces as it is.
If the entirety of Northrend is blanketed in Scourge such as you say, these sentient races would have been dead already, unless you're about to suggest that the Lich King orders the Scourge to leave them alone.
Kalimdor has but one single outpost in a harsh land, that has little or no influence at all. They're not only fighting the Alliance and Horde that invade it, but the Quilboar as well. Their "presence" on Kalimdor is negligible at best, unlike Eastern Kingdoms.
There's a lot of Undead in the Eastern Kingdoms, but as it is a lot of them are simply wandering around. They lack organization. The population density of undead is going to be low despite their relative high numbers and active presence in those regions, because they're simply scattered all over the place. I'd add maybe 20,000 Undead at most from Azeroth, then add another 100,000 from the rest of Northrend and Vrykul. Their numbers are still not significantly higher.
Here's the deal, don't say unfounded nonsense like this and I won't accuse you of being a Lich King fanboy.
Good ime glad you didnt mean that, that would have been foolish.
Look, his endless hatred obviously hasnt destroyed them yet, so he likely has plans, otherwise he would have done...simple..or Blizzard wants more than just undead in Northrend to keep it interesting for the players.
20k at most? they basically cover most of northern eastern kingdoms, theres scourge crawling about near the undercity, scourge in the lower lands, ghosts in other places, and the Plaguelands, west and East are swarming, Banshees, Skeleton mages, soldiers etc etc the plaguelands in compariosn are about the size of the entire lands of the dwarves, in Dun morough, the main city and everything and the scourge have Strat as thieir capital there as well. Add trisful glades which I belive also has pockets of undead and they cover the size of Stormwind and Dun morough together
You have unfounded knowledge that the Dragons will not doing anything, ime in just about as much right to say LK with his "one of the most powerful beings Azeroth has seen" quote could easily take on the aspects.
Originally posted by Burning thought
You have unfounded knowledge that the Dragons will not doing anything, ime in just about as much right to say LK with his "one of the most powerful beings Azeroth has seen" quote could easily take on the aspects.
So what dragons will help?
The strictly neutral red dragons, the defeated blue dragons, the uncaring bronze dragons, the evil black dragons or the green dragons?
Originally posted by Burning thought
Look, his endless hatred obviously hasnt destroyed them yet, so he likely has plans, otherwise he would have done...simple..or Blizzard wants more than just undead in Northrend to keep it interesting for the players.
Actually, none at all, he could just sit back and let his Scourge do all the work without even acknowledging it.
Originally posted by Burning thought
20k at most? they basically cover most of northern eastern kingdoms, theres scourge crawling about near the undercity, scourge in the lower lands, ghosts in other places, and the Plaguelands,
Originally posted by Burning thought
west and East are swarming, Banshees, Skeleton mages, soldiers etc etc
Only in the former major settlements, such as Stratholme, Hearthglen, Corin’s Crossing do you see any significant numbers of undead, otherwise it’s just corrupted animals a lot of the time.
Originally posted by Burning thought
the plaguelands in compariosn are about the size of the entire lands of the dwarves, in Dun morough, the main city and everything and the scourge have Strat as thieir capital there as well. Add trisful glades which I belive also has pockets of undead and they cover the size of Stormwind and Dun morough together
Originally posted by Burning thought
You have unfounded knowledge that the Dragons will not doing anything, ime in just about as much right to say LK with his "one of the most powerful beings Azeroth has seen" quote could easily take on the aspects.
I'd like to point out that Lich King's description "unfathomable power" means absolutely nothing and indicate in no way that he is all that powerful. Why?
the sword did grant him unfathomable power
An official quote referring to Arthas. We have seen Arthas both bested and dependant on troops (Even after complete embrace of the sword), as well as had a rather even encounter with Illidan. So since Blizzard refer Arthas to as unfathomable, when they do call Lich King unfathomable, it really isnt special. They just like using strong words.
Blizzard and single words should NOT be considered proof of any kind. This since we all know that although Arthas was a powerful Death Knight, he wasnt as good as the words make him appear to be. If he in fact had unfathomable powers in the way that Burning Thought look at the word, he wouldnt have had the slightest problem trough the campaign.