Master Malygos Vs. Lich King

Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
Yes he was. His existance was fading. Both him and Arthas was at Sylvanas mercy. Without Arthas, the blade would not have been returned and the cycle not complete. The Lich King's fate depended on Arthas and Arthas life hung on a thin thread which was held by Sylvanas. By having Arthas at her mercy, she had the Lich King at her mercy. She could have ended them both.

What are you talking about? Proof of what exactly? Wht did I say that you want proof over? That Lich King bested him?

Arthas did however return, the Lich King was in no danger and neither was Arthas in the Kings grand design. No she could not and technically you dont know this, Arthas is the chosen champion but if needs must LK could have hosted another being or Deathkngiht holding the sword, although ofcourse its his grand design, I will not pretend to know what he specifically wants Arthas for, or perhaps it was simply because he was close ot the king at the time and could get into the kingdom of man.

That Kiljaeden seeing LK as a threat or not would be reelvent to LK besting him.

Arthas life was at Sylvanas mercy and since Arthas had to complete the circle, so was Lich King's.

What? What does that have to do with anything? Lich King took himself beyond Kil'Jaedens plans and did something unexpected in Kil'Jaedens eyes. That is besting to me.

The Lich King already knew how events would transpire, he has future sight so from the Lich Kings point of view its not even a problem.

yes exactley, Lich King bested Kiljaeden, but theres nothing Kiljaeden could have done, he was helpless and at full strength, wheras LK is weakened and in the throne from a distance.

Keep telling yourself that. They were at Sylvanas mercy, like it or not. They were just lucky that Sylvanas did not kill him on the spot.

What are you going on about? Did I say there was anything Kil'Jaeden could do? Does your devotion to the Lich King clutch so tight that you convert my words to your own version? I never said there was anything Kil'Jaeden could have done. I never implicated it. I never even thought it. So why you even bring that up is beyond me. Perhaps you say it as a personal confirmation, or perhaps you want me to go up against your words. I do not know. Whatever it is, quit it and read what I actually write instead.
Lich King bested Kil'Jaeden. What about me saying that is so hard to understand? I agree with you. Stop being so ridiculously protective.

Luck has nothing to do with it if you know somethings going to happen.

No you said earlier they were simliar, ime telling you their not because LK has a lot of weaknesses, you said that Kiljaeden not considering LK a threat is apprently a reason why LK did it, I disagree and say Kiljaeden wouldnt have had a say either way

Knowing or not, they were are Sylvanas mercy. Seeing the future is not the same as controling it. Velen saw the corruption of the Eredar, but he could do control it. Just because the Lich King can see it, does not mean he can fight it. Had Sylvanas wanted to end Arthas right away, she would have done so and the dark prince would have fallen.

Had Kil'Jaeden considered Ner'Zhul a threat, he would not have made him the Lich King and would've instead killed him and there would have been no Lich King. He did not consider him a threat, therefore making him the Lich King and trough that could Lich King best him. The underestimating of Ner'Zhul was the downfall of the Burning Legion controled Scourge.

The problem is as i said, he knew that would happen, so technically he is allowing an event to transpire because he knows nothing iwll come of it, you cannot best someone in that way.

Well thats going back an enormous long line, and to be honest I think he does consider him a big threat, he goes as far as taking away his body, putting him in a block of ice seemingly helpless and guarded by Dread lords, but the events before does not make his weakness when Nerzhuel broke hte pact relevent, he was simply not weak at the time like LK was when Sylvanas was lost and most of it was LK weakeneing as i said, which is where this debate sprouted from, the bottom line of that is that LK was weakend, Kiljaeden was not, and Sylvanas had nothing or very little to do with her freedom wheras the LK forcefully took his back.

Originally posted by Burning thought
your basing your argument on nothing factual at the same time, your basing it on you apprently knowing all the Lich Kings plans, which brings me back to are you suggesting he [b]cannot wipe them out?

if you are then ill have my own little laugh, if your not then what significance is this point?[/b]

I believe I said that it would take little if any effort on the Lich King's part to wipe them out, or do you not remember?

My whole point is this, if the Scourge blanket the region in such numbers as you described, they'd just wipe out the resident races of their own accord, whether by the Lich King's will or not. And as you can see, they're still alive and thriving.

Originally posted by Burning thought
rest? list me the intelligent races who live there please

Originally posted by Burning thought
err, thanks for the advice....jump at shadows?....

Originally posted by Burning thought
As in its sentient races perhasp ,but Blizzard does not say Sentient races, it simply says Azeroth in general, and Dragons have seen the Pantheon.....they were blessed by them so it makes sense htey were seen just as much as anything else, if not then Azeroth itself has seen them.

No, that's a metaphor implying the residents of Azeroth, past and present. It doesn't change anything at all, the statement is still far too general.

Originally posted by DarkC
No, he does not take any action against them. It doesn't mean he cannot wipe them out, I never said that; I in fact said the complete opposite earlier; once again thank you for keeping up.

I believe I said that it would take little if any effort on the Lich King's part to wipe them out, or do you not remember?

My whole point is this, if the Scourge blanket the region in such numbers as you described, they'd just wipe out the resident races of their own accord, whether by the Lich King's will or not. And as you can see, they're still alive and thriving.

Tuskarr and Tauka. Ice trolls.

Yes. Basically what I see you doing a lot of the time is jumping at something I wasn't even making a point of, see above. And you're also just instantly assuming non-faction Undead is Scourge because you didn't know.

The planet has eyes? Gee, I was never informed.

No, that's a metaphor implying the residents of Azeroth, past and present. It doesn't change anything at all, the statement is still far too general.

Well judging by the two races youve seemed to list id say theres not much discussion here, if theres two other non undead races in the region, can you link to me their profiles and such so i can make sure their not affiliated with Lich King or simply keeping far hidden, i mean hell if their a small race on the edge of the continent their not worthy.

Their undead, simple, if LK wanted them however as it says, hes tuned into undead, thats how he got banshees and ghosts I belive ,he just took them from the old dead, so if he wants them, surely the undead are his.

Obviously a planet doesnt have eyes to see, nor does a realm, if London in modern times has seen the largest amount of economy price changes during its years then does that mean London has eyes?

well you can belive its far too general,i can still say its a pretty good statement of Lich Kings standing, you dont call everyone in Warcraft one of the most powerful Azeroth has ever seen.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Well judging by the two races youve seemed to list id say theres not much discussion here, if theres two other non undead races in the region, can you link to me their profiles and such so i can make sure their not affiliated with Lich King or simply keeping far hidden, i mean hell if their a small race on the edge of the continent their not worthy.

No, they were there even before the LK invaded and are still there now. Of course they're not "worthy" to the Lich King, he doesn't care either way, but it doesn't stop your allegedly numerous undead in the region rampaging over everything. They are not as numerous outside of Icecrown, at all.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Their undead, simple, if LK wanted them however as it says, hes tuned into undead, thats how he got banshees and ghosts I belive ,he just took them from the old dead, so if he wants them, surely the undead are his.

Ghosts, undead, even if they're ressurrected by the Lich King or one of his minions they're not necessarily all under the control of the Lich King. Look at the Forsaken, there's a GIANT example in front of your face; you say your Lich King is potentially omnipotent; why isn't the Forsaken part of the Scourge yet, and furthermore hates the Scourge? It's been stated that Arthas thinks of them as "lost" and wants the bring them back into the fold.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Obviously a planet doesnt have eyes to see, nor does a realm, if London in modern times has [b]seen the largest amount of economy price changes during its years then does that mean London has eyes?[/b]

Originally posted by Burning thought
well you can belive its far too general,i can still say its a pretty good statement of Lich Kings standing, you dont call everyone in Warcraft one of the most powerful Azeroth has ever seen.

It's FAR too general, there's simply just too many in such a wide range to compare. Arthas has no accurate standing whatsoever.

Originally posted by DarkC
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/wrath/features/factions/tuskarr.xml
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/wrath/features/bestiary/index.xml (Taunka)
http://www.wowwiki.com/Drakkari (references from WoW site)

No, they were there even before the LK invaded and are still there now. Of course they're not "worthy" to the Lich King, he doesn't care either way, but it doesn't stop your allegedly numerous undead in the region rampaging over everything. They are not as numerous outside of Icecrown, at all.

Where is this nonsense lore that restricts the concept of necromancy to Scourge-affiliated charaters/units?

Ghosts, undead, even if they're ressurrected by the Lich King or one of his minions they're not necessarily all under the control of the Lich King. Look at the Forsaken, there's a GIANT example in front of your face; you say your Lich King is potentially omnipotent; why isn't the Forsaken part of the Scourge yet, and furthermore hates the Scourge? It's been stated that Arthas thinks of them as "lost" and wants the bring them back into the fold.

No, it has to do with its residents which is my point exactly. Thanks for proving it.

No, but there have been a LOT of powerful ones, I could go ahead and name all the "named" demigods (Malorne was on par with Archimonde) who are incredibly powerful in their own right. And then you have those that dwarve even the demigods, the Titans, then the Old Gods.

It's FAR too general, there's simply just too many in such a wide range to compare. Arthas has no accurate standing whatsoever.

Exactley a few groups, and the scourge are the lich kings control, so no they wouldnt just rampage around, what makes you think that? their under the lich Kings mind and will, command etc etc if he has better uses for them then so be it.

Stop using the Forsaken, their the only giant example of a specialised force, nothing more, their specialised from an event that happened long ago and does not hold any value to random undead strolling around. Being potentially omnipotent is likely the reason why, you answered your own question....

But are they considered among the most powerful ever to walk Azeroth? or ever to be seen by it, the Lich King is among them, theres only a small handfull you can truthfully call "most powerful Azeroth has ever seen" you couldnt rank beings like Demigods alongside Old Gods who are the most powerful ever seen.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Exactley a few groups, and the scourge are the lich kings control, so no they wouldnt just rampage around, what makes you think that? their under the lich Kings mind and will, command etc etc if he has better uses for them then so be it.

They're perfectly capable of killing and stomping outside his will.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Stop using the Forsaken, their the only giant example of a specialised force, nothing more, their specialised from an event that happened long ago and does not hold any value to random undead strolling around.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Being [b]potentially omnipotent is likely the reason why, you answered your own question....[/b]

Originally posted by Burning thought
But are they considered among the most powerful ever to walk Azeroth? or ever to be seen by it, the Lich King is among them, theres only a small handfull you can truthfully call "most powerful Azeroth has ever seen"

Originally posted by Burning thought
you couldnt rank beings like Demigods alongside Old Gods who are the most powerful ever seen.

Originally posted by Burning thought
The problem is as i said, he knew that would happen, so technically he is allowing an event to transpire because he knows nothing iwll come of it, you cannot best someone in that way.

Well thats going back an enormous long line, and to be honest I think he does consider him a big threat, he goes as far as taking away his body, putting him in a block of ice seemingly helpless and guarded by Dread lords, but the events before does not make his weakness when Nerzhuel broke hte pact relevent, he was simply not weak at the time like LK was when Sylvanas was lost and most of it was LK weakeneing as i said, which is where this debate sprouted from, the bottom line of that is that LK was weakend, Kiljaeden was not, and Sylvanas had nothing or very little to do with her freedom wheras the LK forcefully took his back.

Yes you can. Velen could not flee from Archimonde forever and he could see the future probably more clearly than Medivh. Despite his future sight, his followers decreased in numbers over and over and over. Future sight is an advantage, yes, but it is not absolute security. Say what you will, but you can not deny the fact that had Sylvanas placed an arrow between Arthas eyes, it would have been over.