Malygos- when it comes to whats known of the two. From what have been written about both characters so far, nothing gives out the implication that Lich King would prevent Malygos from having him being erased out of existance. Assuming Malygos is a better version of Tyrygosa, he could with a single motion melt Lich King into a puddle on the ground.
Until more is written about Lich King, Malygos win this with his eyes closed.
Originally posted by DarkC
No, he would have done it period, if it required that little effort.Actually, none at all, he could just sit back and let his Scourge do all the work without even acknowledging it.
Scourge in the “lower” lands? Where?
No, it’s not “swarming”, not even close. They’re scattered Undead, as I said, numerous but unorganized.
Only in the former major settlements, such as Stratholme, Hearthglen, Corin’s Crossing do you see any significant numbers of undead, otherwise it’s just corrupted animals a lot of the time.
Size of a zone is meaningless here, You could compare them all you like, but the fact remains that despite the relative size of a zone the Undead in those zones do not populate it entirely. There’s pockets of Undead here and there, and a few more denser areas, but even those are typically uncontrolled by any sort of Undead authority.
No, you do not. I have historical backing, the Aspects have been known to sit around and do nothing, what their current stability is as a race at the current time frame. You have nothing, that quote is far too general to be used as support.
No he wouldnt because Blizzard doesnt want him to, are you trying to imply the scourge have difficulty in defeating Tusken raiders and thats the reason why their still alive? 😐
That crag near Karazhan, are there not undead there?
Their not scattered, its a large area so no their not covering every piece but youll find theres gargoyles on the normal terrain, necromancers, abominations and other things near strat and the large area before it, skeletons to the north and Banshees in the village in the middle. Their just as numerous if not more than Dun morough or other Alliance/horde areas.
Its not far too general at all, how so? it clearly states one of hte most powerful Azeroth has ever seen, theres not many you could rank side by side as most powerful Azeroth has ever seen.
Originally posted by Nozdormu
I'd like to point out that Lich King's description "unfathomable power" means absolutely nothing and indicate in no way that he is all that powerful. Why?An official quote referring to Arthas. We have seen Arthas both bested and dependant on troops (Even after complete embrace of the sword), as well as had a rather even encounter with Illidan. So since Blizzard refer Arthas to as unfathomable, when they do call Lich King unfathomable, it really isnt special. They just like using strong words.
Blizzard and single words should NOT be considered proof of any kind. This since we all know that although Arthas was a powerful Death Knight, he wasnt as good as the words make him appear to be. If he in fact had unfathomable powers in the way that Burning Thought look at the word, he wouldnt have had the slightest problem trough the campaign.
Yes well they like using strong words when talking about
Blizzard should not be considered proof? .......Also lets go back to Kiljaeden and Becci's words, she said Kiljaeden is apprently potentially omnipotent, because he has the power, just not the ability to use it, I can use this against you all by saying its the same with Arthas, hes in actuality not far from a normal man, none of his abilities put him on a much higher footing when it comes to understanding power, so Arthas may indeed have unfathomable power, just no ability to use it all.
also can you link me where you got this quote from plz
Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
Malygos- when it comes to whats known of the two. From what have been written about both characters so far, nothing gives out the implication that Lich King would prevent Malygos from having him being erased out of existance. Assuming Malygos is a better version of Tyrygosa, he could with a single motion melt Lich King into a puddle on the ground.Until more is written about Lich King, Malygos win this with his eyes closed.
Yes it does, so many things if you read the rest of my evidence during this debate point to him being just as much beyond simply being erased as Sargerus or a pantheon member would be. We can all say things like that, LK just mind rapes the entire aspect line up and kills them by accident.
enough is written to know he is beyond aspects, and no, thats wrong, until more is written about the Lich King this thread is nothing, its a double standard, you can neither assume LK wins or loses if you take your viewpoint for the same reasons.
I have read a lot of what you have written in this debate. You have no proof, only words, conclusions and assumptions that could describe the level of his power. The only thing we so far has seen him capable of is planning, raising dead and corrupting targets near him over time.
Cenarius is said to be "one of the most powerful beings in the history of Azeroth", while Arthas is considered "unfathomable" and Kil'Jaeden is "unimaginable" as well as Sargeras "all powerful", which are the words you are using to strengthen your debate. Noone of those are even remotelly close to being unlimited in power. They are all very limited, so just because you have those words written about the Lich King does not make him some supreme force.
You have no proof of your declarations over Lich King's powers other than words that indirectly describe his powers very unclearly. You claim you do, but you really do not. There is no recording of his powers other than the three mentioned ones.
Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
I have read a lot of what you have written in this debate. You have no proof, only words, conclusions and assumptions that could describe the level of his power. The only thing we so far has seen him capable of is planning, raising dead and corrupting targets near him over time.Cenarius is said to be "one of the most powerful beings in the history of Azeroth", while Arthas is considered "unfathomable" and Kil'Jaeden is "unimaginable" as well as Sargeras "all powerful", which are the words you are using to strengthen your debate. Noone of those are even remotelly close to being unlimited in power. They are all very limited, so just because you have those words written about the Lich King does not make him some supreme force.
You have no proof of your declarations over Lich King's powers other than words that indirectly describe his powers very unclearly. You claim you do, but you really do not. There is no recording of his powers other than the three mentioned ones.
You dont have any proof against him however, you cannot prove that Malygos can do anything to the LK, if he is unkown, I can bring up as many of these words said about him as I like, thats all i want to do in this debate until we have some real powers for the LK, but we know hes had said about him perhaps every strong word Blizzard have under their belts, he is one of the most powerful beings Azeroth has ever seen, he is unfathomable in power etc etc and no weve seen him corrupting beings over long distances over time, hes completly mind controlled lifeforms near him.
hes stated unlmited in power and infnite in Necromancy and Psionic ability in the MoM so he doesnt need the others to be close to unlimtied power, he already has those statements.
You have no proof against the Lich King, he has no showings yet...therefore you fail imediatley at saying Malygos wins based on showings just as much as I would fail with Lich King based on showings.
Originally posted by Burning thought
You dont have any proof against him however, you cannot prove that Malygos can do anything to the LK, if he is unkown, I can bring up as many of these words said about him as I like, thats all i want to do in this debate until we have some real powers for the LK, but we know hes had said about him perhaps every strong word Blizzard have under their belts, he is one of the most powerful beings Azeroth has ever seen, he is unfathomable in power etc etc and no weve seen him corrupting beings over long distances over time, hes completly mind controlled lifeforms near him.hes stated unlmited in power and infnite in Necromancy and Psionic ability in the MoM so he doesnt need the others to be close to unlimtied power, he already has those statements.
You have no proof against the Lich King, he has no showings yet...therefore you fail imediatley at saying Malygos wins based on showings just as much as I would fail with Lich King based on showings.
You are right. I have no proof against him, nor did I state at any point that I did. I have not said that Malgyos is a win, only that he would win on base of what we know about the two so far. Lich King until the clearing of the next expansion is undebateable. I admit that there are chances he could handle Malygos very well, since he has recieved considerable blessings and grown quite handily in power.
When you say "long distances" you mean Northrend, right? The only corruption he has done beyond Northrend is Arthas when he was wielding the sword, which easily can be treated as an exception since the sword was a direct link to the Lich King.
I know MoM. I know what it says. I fail to see the reason you even bring that up. Necromancy and psionic abilities, indeed he has. Unlimited just like Archimonde's powers in total. Being unlimited in this sense does not mean indefinate limits of usage. Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden are both unlimited, yet they have limits. This would be a showing that unliminted not necessarily mean complete usage.
I have no proof, not at all. I never said I did, either. Did I say I did? I believe I didnt. If I did say it, I lied and I withdraw my statement. I said that Malygos win based on showing, because he does. Lich King has no showings. When I said he could do it with his eyes closed, I meant it, since Malygos has fought with his eyes closed before. He has a showing of having fought with his eyes closed.
None of us stand in a position where we can declare any one of the two winners, since Lich King is undebateable. The only showings he has will be of no help in direct combat.
Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
You are right. I have no proof against him, nor did I state at any point that I did. I have not said that Malgyos is a win, only that he would win on base of what we know about the two so far. Lich King until the clearing of the next expansion is undebateable. I admit that there are chances he could handle Malygos very well, since he has recieved considerable blessings and grown quite handily in power.When you say "long distances" you mean Northrend, right? The only corruption he has done beyond Northrend is Arthas when he was wielding the sword, which easily can be treated as an exception since the sword was a direct link to the Lich King.
I know MoM. I know what it says. I fail to see the reason you even bring that up. Necromancy and psionic abilities, indeed he has. Unlimited just like Archimonde's powers in total. Being unlimited in this sense does not mean indefinate limits of usage. Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden are both unlimited, yet they have limits. This would be a showing that unliminted not necessarily mean complete usage.
I have no proof, not at all. I never said I did, either. Did I say I did? I believe I didnt. If I did say it, I lied and I withdraw my statement. I said that Malygos win based on showing, because he does. Lich King has no showings. When I said he could do it with his eyes closed, I meant it, since Malygos has fought with his eyes closed before. He has a showing of having fought with his eyes closed.
None of us stand in a position where we can declare any one of the two winners, since Lich King is undebateable. The only showings he has will be of no help in direct combat.
Exactley my thoughts on the matter
And Kelthuzard
perhaps
The one with showings doesnt win automatically just because the other has none, especially in this situation, they are simply undebatable imo which is why i dislke this thread.
Kel'Thuzad was not corrupted by Lich King. He pledged himself to the great king willingly, lusting for the promised eternal life that he later on was granted by Arthas hands.
You are right that showings does not win a battle. Thats my whole point. Currently Lich King is more or less a blank piece of paper at combat feats. Since Malygos surely can beat a blank piece of paper, he has the upper hand until more is known about the Lich King in combat.
Lich King is but tabula rasa. Currently he has no feats to back up any victory at all, while soon he will unravel as a highly potent necromancer with powers beyond imagining.
Originally posted by Burning thought
No he wouldnt because Blizzard doesnt want him to, are you trying to imply the scourge have difficulty in defeating Tusken raiders and thats the reason why their still alive? 😐
If the scourge did blanket the continent in those numbers as you described, there would be no way in hell that the sentient races would still be there, whether by the Lich King's will or not.
Originally posted by Burning thought
That crag near Karazhan, are there not undead there?
Originally posted by Burning thought
Their not scattered, its a large area so no their not covering every piece but youll find theres gargoyles on the normal terrain, necromancers, abominations and other things near strat and the large area before it, skeletons to the north and Banshees in the village in the middle. Their just as numerous if not more than Dun morough or other Alliance/horde areas.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Its not far too general at all, how so? it clearly states one of hte most powerful Azeroth has ever seen, theres not many you could rank side by side as most powerful Azeroth has ever seen.
Azeroth has seen a LOT of beings that are powerful enough to be considered the "most" powerful at their current time frame. However, there are way too few sources or support that place one above the other, and when it does happen Being A outshines B by an enormous margin. Judging from all this, it's as likely to rank him beside an Old God as it is to rank him beside an Aspect, because there's too little known.
Originally posted by DarkC
You're falling back on WoW mechanics again, besides misunderstanding me yet again.If the scourge did blanket the continent in those numbers as you described, there would be no way in hell that the sentient races would still be there, whether by the Lich King's will or not.
So to you, "undead" automatically translates to "Scourge"?
What about the Forsaken?
As far as I know they are not part of the Scourge, nor do they have any association to the faction.You simply listed the types of units around what part of the region.
That doesn't tell me anything at all.Of course it's general, anyone who thinks otherwise is shortsighted. It's general for one reason:
Azeroth has seen a LOT of beings that are powerful enough to be considered the "most" powerful at their current time frame. However, there are way too few sources or support that place one above the other, and when it does happen Being A outshines B by an enormous margin. Judging from all this, it's as likely to rank him beside an Old God as it is to rank him beside an Aspect, because there's too little known.
Theres no mechanics at all, were discussing something we have no idea about, and Blizzard choosing something to happen, like Mannaroth defeated by Hellscream for example are factors in the reasons, either way, Northrend is a place of death to the extent the natives like the Vykals I showed earlier have the LK as some sort of religious figuire they kill themselves over, if theres a few small factions scratching a living from small areas then their lucky to survive (or unlucky).
I didnt know for sure, but I knew there were undead there, most undead seem to be apart of the scourge, ive not logged on and been to Kara in a long time however so it was just a suggestion.
That statement however secures his place at at least aspect level, infact perhaps higher since have Aspects been known as one of the most powerful Azeroth has ever seen? either way he is on Aspect level or above for any stretch of the imagination, since Aspects are not some of the most powerful beings Azeroth has ever seen since they could never stand next to perhaps Kiljaeden or Old gods, Pantheon, Sarg etc etc.
Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
Kel'Thuzad was not corrupted by Lich King. He pledged himself to the great king willingly, lusting for the promised eternal life that he later on was granted by Arthas hands.You are right that showings does not win a battle. Thats my whole point. Currently Lich King is more or less a blank piece of paper at combat feats. Since Malygos surely can beat a blank piece of paper, he has the upper hand until more is known about the Lich King in combat.
Lich King is but tabula rasa. Currently he has no feats to back up any victory at all, while soon he will unravel as a highly potent necromancer with powers beyond imagining.
But everything about him coming to the throne and such was the Lich Kings doing, the guy didnt even know about the King before it touched his mind. What are you calling corrupted? mind controled? technically all the cult of the damned can be considered corrupted.
But as you said, he doesnt have the upper hand in anything, showinds do not win a battle, since LK has no showings, he cannot be defeated in this debate until there are.
well his mind is a bit of a feat, nobody beats his plans and everyone fails when they try and go against his thus far.
Kel'Thuzad was persuaded. Arthas was corrupted. The Paladin in the WotLK trailer was corrupted. The creatures of Northrend gets corrupted. What I consider corrupted is when something actually corrupt your very soul. Arthas went from Paladin to Death Knight (Like other Paladins that ventured to Northrend) and that is a corruption. Kel'Thuzad mastered the arts of necromancy willingly and was even toutoring it to another willing person (Do not remember his name). That would not be considered corruption in my eyes. A lot of the early harbringers of the cult are persuaded and not actually corrupted.
That is my point exactly, so why bother elaborating it? This debate can not really be held until Lich King get feats.
Sylvanas did not fail. No, moreso the contruary, that she bested him. Illidan almost bested him, only fell at the finish line. He is a mastermind, but he is not perfect. Besides, his mind is proven powerful indirectly in combat, but he has no direct combat feats (Yet)
To me, corruption is changes altered against the sane mind. I also consider Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden corrupted. Just like I consider Sylvanas and Kel'Thuzad pure.
Sylvanas broke out of the Lich King's grasp. I would pretty much consider that besting. Just like I would consider Lich King besting Kil'Jaeden when he broke their pact. It is not exactly the same, but I find both of those two two seperate ways of besting a superior force and indications of imperfection.
It is your righteous interpretation of the matter. Weakened or not, losing Sylvanas almost halted his plans for good. Both Arthas and Lich King was for a period of time under Sylvanas mercy. You may not, but I consider it besting.
Kil'Jaeden was bested by Ner'Zhul by not being a considerable threat. Kil'Jaeden's missinterpretation of the situation costed him dearly as he blessed Lich King who turned out both smart and powerful enough to dare defy the deciever and in a most impressive way.
Yes he was. His existance was fading. Both him and Arthas was at Sylvanas mercy. Without Arthas, the blade would not have been returned and the cycle not complete. The Lich King's fate depended on Arthas and Arthas life hung on a thin thread which was held by Sylvanas. By having Arthas at her mercy, she had the Lich King at her mercy. She could have ended them both.
What are you talking about? Proof of what exactly? Wht did I say that you want proof over? That Lich King bested him?
Originally posted by Burning thought
Theres no mechanics at all, were discussing something we have no idea about, and Blizzard choosing something to happen, like Mannaroth defeated by Hellscream for example are factors in the reasons
Originally posted by Burning thought
either way, Northrend is a place of death to the extent the natives like the Vykals I showed earlier have the LK as some sort of religious figuire they kill themselves over, if theres a few small factions scratching a living from small areas then their lucky to survive (or unlucky).
Originally posted by Burning thought
I didnt know for sure, but I knew there were undead there, most undead seem to be apart of the scourge, ive not logged on and been to Kara in a long time however so it was just a suggestion.
Originally posted by Burning thought
That statement however secures his place at at least aspect level, infact perhaps higher since have Aspects been known as one of the most powerful Azeroth has ever seen? either way he is on Aspect level or above for any stretch of the imagination, since Aspects are not some of the most powerful beings Azeroth has ever seen since they could never stand next to perhaps Kiljaeden or Old gods, Pantheon, Sarg etc etc.
Originally posted by DarkC
No, please do not bring up this "unknown factor" fallacy of yours again. You're basing your argument here on something with no foundation at all, and is not in any way reliable.The Wrykuls are one race, what about the rest? Why do their lifestyles and civilizations remain unchanged? From what you say the Scourge blanket Northrend; it would go against all logic and instinct to have sentient races still there.
There's corruption in Karazhan, but it has no ties to the Scourge. Don't jump at shadows.
Azeroth, as in its sentient races currently and in the past, has only ever "seen" Sargeras as the most powerful. Remember, not every single entity that you listed off has been technically "seen" by Azeroth. The Pantheon is ruled out, as are the Old Gods (with the exception of C'Thun). The dragons are quite evident, as are the demigods. Either way, you have no way of knowing.
your basing your argument on nothing factual at the same time, your basing it on you apprently knowing all the Lich Kings plans, which brings me back to are you suggesting he cannot wipe them out? if you are then ill have my own little laugh, if your not then what significance is this point?
rest? list me the intelligent races who live there please
err, thanks for the advice....jump at shadows?....
As in its sentient races perhasp ,but Blizzard does not say Sentient races, it simply says Azeroth in general, and Dragons have seen the Pantheon.....they were blessed by them so it makes sense htey were seen just as much as anything else, if not then Azeroth itself has seen them.