Master Malygos Vs. Lich King

lol you keep talking as if the LK is just some "more powerful" Lich....he is far more than just some "more powerful" lich lol......technically in a way he is not a Lich at all, he is simply named the Lich King but hes nothing like any of the other liches, he is mostly all spectoral entity and he takes host in the body of a living being (well sorta living) which other Liches dont do, their animated.

his 10k mind alone gives him heads up on all other Liches, no other Lich is stated as being unfathomably powerful and one of the most powerful beings in Warcraft unvierse

but anyway this is irrelevent, he will blow Malygos out of the air with a Lich King sized shadowbolt 😛

Lich = Necromancer
Lich King = Necromancer

And the chances that he is able to finish Malygos in one attack (magic at that) is zero 😉

The chances of him winning is about the same.

lol dream on, Malygos would end up becoming an Aspect dragon steak recipe, LK will eat it, then at the end of WOTLK when he is defeated he will cough it up as the reward....

And a Lich isnt just a Necromancer, otherwise Necromancers ascending to such a level as Mage skeleton according to RPG books and THEN Lichdom would be rather pointless.

Malygos would just get mind raped before he even got close

As amazing a dinner that would be...... No 😛

Liches are necromancers. Necromancers are not liches. Do not confuse the two.

Mind raped? The only Azerothian entity hat we know who would be able to get inside Malygos head is Ysera. What makes you think Lich King is capable of getting inside it, and if he does, what do you think he possibly could do? Mind attacks are magical. They are as ineffective against him as a physical blow is against Archimonde.

Necromancers ascend to become liches which is what ime saying, if Liches were merely Necromancers, there would be no point.

what? where does it say mind attacks are magical? thats not true at all in logic, their simply mind psychic attacks, not magic.....

Lich King imo>>Ysera mind, at his weakest inside the throne losing his power he is controlling with ease countless undead soldiers, his conciousness is incredible, Ysera is no match.

Mind attacks are magical in the Warcraft universe. As good as everything in Warcraft is magical. Even the four elements are magical. Mind attacks are as magical as shadow attacks.

And just because Lich King can control thousands of skeletons with ease, does not mean his mind > > Ysera's. Ysera was able to break Deathwing's mind when he had the Demon Soul. Just because Lich King control quantity of soldiers with his mind, does not mean Lich King's quality > > Ysera's.

The only reason that Kil’Jaeden choosed to bind Ner’Zhul the way he did was because Ner’Zhul had already once betrayed him, he didn’t want that to happen yet again, hence he placed him in the ice and placed the Dreadlords with him.

If Blizzard makes a statement ore directly changes the story of a given race then that is Canon no matter if we like it ore not, if Blizzard reliased a statement putting the Lich King above the Titans I would disagree but accept it since it’s official lore. What Mages are we talking about now the one from the lore ore the one from the game? The games version are basically skeletons, while the lore version is something between a Lich and a Necromancer.

No you point cannot be correct if you doesn’t know anything as a fact, for all we know Blizzard could choose to have the Lich King only show Melee attacks in the raid against him in Northeren. Blue and White beams can be frost would mostly be frost spells. No however the Liches that gaines there power directly from Ner’Zhul and was transformed along with him haven’t showed anything that could indicate them having more then the previous mentioned schools of magic.

So his mind is his most powerful weapon which I think I said like a few posts back... When you can inslave minor lifeforms, send forth a plague that within three days will turn all infected into zombies, imbune you servants with great powers without weakening yourself, that is great power, along with the fact that you can easily command every single one of those that have sworn alligence to you and they cannot break free unless under specific circumstances.

First of most of those link didn’t direct me to any of the characters, I got something about page in preparation blah blah, anyway iirc they where mages before they where returned as undead, and what I like about the undead in Azeroth is that they keeps there former knowlegde (when we are talking higher levels not zombie and ghouls), that would mean that Ner’zhul would also be a Shaman except that the spirits abandoned him, that would mean that Arthas would still have holy powers except that he traded it all for Frostmourne.

Originally posted by Becci
Mind attacks are magical in the Warcraft universe. As good as everything in Warcraft is magical. Even the four elements are magical. Mind attacks are as magical as shadow attacks.

And just because Lich King can control thousands of skeletons with ease, does not mean his mind > > Ysera's. Ysera was able to break Deathwing's mind when he had the Demon Soul. Just because Lich King control quantity of soldiers with his mind, does not mean Lich King's quality > > Ysera's.

Gettng into Neltharians mind is not that impressive, why is that possibly impressive? that doesnt show high quality and please show me where it states mind powers are magical......

Originally posted by Utrigita
The only reason that Kil’Jaeden choosed to bind Ner’Zhul the way he did was because Ner’Zhul had already once betrayed him, he didn’t want that to happen yet again, hence he placed him in the ice and placed the Dreadlords with him.

If Blizzard makes a statement ore directly changes the story of a given race then that is Canon no matter if we like it ore not, if Blizzard reliased a statement putting the Lich King above the Titans I would disagree but accept it since it’s official lore. What Mages are we talking about now the one from the lore ore the one from the game? The games version are basically skeletons, while the lore version is something between a Lich and a Necromancer.

No you point cannot be correct if you doesn’t know anything as a fact, for all we know Blizzard could choose to have the Lich King only show Melee attacks in the raid against him in Northeren. Blue and White beams can be frost would mostly be frost spells. No however the Liches that gaines there power directly from Ner’Zhul and was transformed along with him haven’t showed anything that could indicate them having more then the previous mentioned schools of magic.

So his mind is his most powerful weapon which I think I said like a few posts back... When you can inslave minor lifeforms, send forth a plague that within three days will turn all infected into zombies, imbune you servants with great powers without weakening yourself, that is great power, along with the fact that you can easily command every single one of those that have sworn alligence to you and they cannot break free unless under specific circumstances.

First of most of those link didn’t direct me to any of the characters, I got something about page in preparation blah blah, anyway iirc they where mages before they where returned as undead, and what I like about the undead in Azeroth is that they keeps there former knowlegde (when we are talking higher levels not zombie and ghouls), that would mean that Ner’zhul would also be a Shaman except that the spirits abandoned him, that would mean that Arthas would still have holy powers except that he traded it all for Frostmourne.

He was cautious, he did not plan on many things like LK escaping, and he was cautious that he may end up with a major threat on his hands if it escapes.

The one from the lore can be the same as the one from the game, sumoned from Necromancers skeleton mages were in the game, until theres 100% canon lore to go by ofc, and the RPG lore does not seem 100% canon to me, i would like to see an official Blizzard statement for this.

the mind is not usually stated among unfathomable power, or under power at all and i said it could be one of his more powerful things, i belive his magic is going to be powerful, his physical is going to be his weakest.

Where does it say Arthas traded it all? i dont remember a trade going on....same with these spirits leaving Nerzhel, but that may have been in a book, the spirits leaving him, does it actualyl say he loses his shaman powers? Dont forget, he gains Kiljaedens power, has power from the spirits of those he takes over, and if he can still try and link to the shamanistic or holy powers he may gain them but i think any of his attacks are likely just going to be attacks of pure power, white energy sort of thing, i doubt he is gong to be using or be stuck using common ice/shadow attacks like a Lich. Dont forget Kiljaeden tought Nerzhuel Warlock magics as well, which include all the fire and curse and other powers.
you seem to like WoWwiki:

Upon entering one of the portals, Ner'zhul and his followers were immediately captured by Kil'jaeden. The Elder Shaman was torn apart, though his spirit was kept alive. Agreeing to enter into the service of the demon once more, Ner'zhul was bound to the Frozen Throne. His perception, mental powers, and magical abilities expanded tremendously. Thus the Lich King was born.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Ner%27zhul

at the bottom

Originally posted by Burning thought
Gettng into Neltharians mind is not that impressive, why is that possibly impressive? that doesnt show high quality and please show me where it states mind powers are magical......

How about in WoW? All mind attacks are referred to as magical.

That he didn't counted on correct, No he was careful because he couldn't afford to fail in weakening Azeroth once again (I have no idea why this is the case but it is)

Again that is background information and additionelly Blizzard linkes to the various RPG books as additionel source of info along with the novels. (will look for the link) Is that good enough?

His mind is the most powerful type of attack he has, because it was that which expanded 10.000 times.

When he gains Frostmourne in the cutscene he says something about "I call to the spirit of this place I will blah blah pay any price if it will help me save my homeland" Yes it does (BECCI WASN'T IT RISE OF THE HORDE?) He doesn't get Kil'Jaedens powers, Kil'Jaeden Uses his power to change him into the being that he is, but please if you can show me where it stats that the Lich King gains Kil'Jaedens power then please by all means. Which he has only done one time so far, taken over a soul and that was when he merged with DK Arthas

The Lich King can take possession of a soulless body that comes in contact with him and Frostmourne at the same time. The soul within Frostmourne is destroyed unless it willingly merges with the Lich King, becoming lost as a separate entity for all eternity. If a soul merges with the Lich King, he gains all the skills and memories of the victim. He has only done this one time, with Prince Arthas Menethil

http://www.wowwiki.com/Frostmourne

He can try all the want to link to the Spirits (who abandoned him twice because of what he became first a Warlock then a Undead) ore the holy powers (which is used to destroy undead beings 😬 ) I don't see why he wouldn't only use Shadow Ice and Necromancy along with the mind as ranged attacks. If it wasn't for the fact that Kil'Jaeden strips Ner'Zhuls power from him when he tried to betray the Legion, just like the link you linked to says.

Yeah a shamans magical power expanding hurra, yet that basically contradicts all the other sources on the site about the Lich King which stats that his Conscioness was expanded 10.000 but okay we will use it, because again it doesn't say anything about him having more then Black magic Necromancy and Frost 🙂

Yes, it word by word in Rise of the Horde stated that the spirits abandoned Ner'Zhul and it followed the story about how they did so. It detailed described how his powers faded until the point where he no longer manifested shaman powers.

I would direct you to specific pages, but that would be pretty many pages. Almost half the book is about Ner'Zhul and how the spirits abandon him.

In addition, yes, Kil'Jaeden erased Ner'Zhuls powers for his (second) betrayal. He took every single bit of hope away from Ner'Zhul, stripping him completely of power. He then left him as a spirit with necromancy powers in Azeroth, so that he would control the undead forces in service of the Burning Legion.

Originally posted by Utrigita
That he didn't counted on correct, No he was careful because he couldn't afford to fail in weakening Azeroth once again (I have no idea why this is the case but it is)

Again that is background information and additionelly Blizzard linkes to the various RPG books as additionel source of info along with the novels. (will look for the link) Is that good enough?

His mind is the most powerful type of attack he has, because it was that which expanded 10.000 times.

When he gains Frostmourne in the cutscene he says something about "I call to the spirit of this place I will blah blah pay any price if it will help me save my homeland" Yes it does (BECCI WASN'T IT RISE OF THE HORDE?) He doesn't get Kil'Jaedens powers, Kil'Jaeden Uses his power to change him into the being that he is, but please if you can show me where it stats that the Lich King gains Kil'Jaedens power then please by all means. Which he has only done one time so far, taken over a soul and that was when he merged with DK Arthas

http://www.wowwiki.com/Frostmourne

He can try all the want to link to the Spirits (who abandoned him twice because of what he became first a Warlock then a Undead) ore the holy powers (which is used to destroy undead beings 😬 ) I don't see why he wouldn't only use Shadow Ice and Necromancy along with the mind as ranged attacks. If it wasn't for the fact that Kil'Jaeden strips Ner'Zhuls power from him when he tried to betray the Legion, just like the link you linked to says.

Yeah a shamans magical power expanding hurra, yet that basically contradicts all the other sources on the site about the Lich King which stats that his Conscioness was expanded 10.000 but okay we will use it, because again it doesn't say anything about him having more then Black magic Necromancy and Frost 🙂

Can you show me where it says this please? That it was all about not failing at weakening Azeroth, sounds lame to me unless ofc Kiljaeden says it, in which case it sounds a likely a good wording for his type.

Meh, its good enough i guess to create a two track argument, one where its accepted as official lore and one where it is simply considered but not fact.

Well actually his conciousness was expanded 10k fold, what that gives him other than planetary awareness and the ability to control thousands of undead we will have to w8 and see, conciousness expanded by that much could end up giving you so many things.

That does not say anything about sacrificing holy powers.
Kiljaedens power warps Lich King into what he is, he almost is an emobdiment of Kiljaedens power used since thats what makes him. He is a product of kiljaedens power, therefore, it is only kiljaedens power that makes him unfathomable, therefore he is gaining Kiljaedens power.
It says every undead he takes is a soul he consumes for nourishment, Arthas is the only soul he has completly possessed.

Can you bold where it says Kiljaeden takes away Nerzhuels powers please.

it does not contradict anything, it simply adds to the amount of power Nerzhuel gains AND mentions the 10k expansion in the part where it says "mind powers and perception"

Originally posted by Becci
Yes, it word by word in [b]Rise of the Horde stated that the spirits abandoned Ner'Zhul and it followed the story about how they did so. It detailed described how his powers faded until the point where he no longer manifested shaman powers.

I would direct you to specific pages, but that would be pretty many pages. Almost half the book is about Ner'Zhul and how the spirits abandon him.

In addition, yes, Kil'Jaeden erased Ner'Zhuls powers for his (second) betrayal. He took every single bit of hope away from Ner'Zhul, stripping him completely of power. He then left him as a spirit with necromancy powers in Azeroth, so that he would control the undead forces in service of the Burning Legion. [/B]

nothing says he leaves him as a spiritt with just Necromancy powers, your adding that bit in, dont add assumption with fact, also can you show me pelase where it says Kiljaeden erased the powers?

edit

Originally posted by Burning thought
nothing says he leaves him as a spiritt with just Necromancy powers, your adding that bit in, dont add assumption with fact, also can you show me pelase where it says Kiljaeden erased the powers?

By "nothing says", you as always mean that you personally have never read about it.

When Kil'Jaeden captured Ner'Zhul after his pathetic excuse of an escape, Kil'Jaeden broke all previous bonds with former powers of Ner'Zhul. The reason he did this, which was stated, was because he wanted to make sure that Ner'Zhul would serve Kil'Jaedens purpose and his purpose alone. He did not want Ner'Zhul to do things he was not intended to do, which was why he removed Ner'Zhul of his powers.

To Kil'Jaedens misscalculations, which you are very well aware of, the minor powers over undeath that Ner'Zhul had recieved increased over time vastly. Those are the powers of the Lich King. Going by what is known from lore, that is all he got. The powers of a Lich.

I do not quite recall where this was written, but Utrigita may know. I think it was in one of the following: The Last Guardian, Beyond the Dark Portal, although could have been Cycle of Hatered.

Well ofc ive not read it just like you and the old lore, if you can tell me the book, and the page and a confirmation from both of you that it says Kiljaeden directly blessed LK with Necromancy only, then ill consider it, until such an event, ill slander it and discredit it.

Pathetic excuse? he blew a planet in the process, it wasnt exactley pathetic even if he failed no matter how you try and doll it down, Kiljaedens pathetic plans fell flat on his face, now thats pathetic.

If it does say word by word Kiljaeden took away Nerzhuels old powers then ill w8 and see for that information as well.

The facts are as follows:

first Nerzhuel=Shaman then Warlock powers after meeting Kiljaeden first of all

Second Nerzhuel after Warlock powers, loses the spirits according to you guys, ill let you have that one, it sounds feasable.

Third, Nerzhuel betrays Kiljaeden who rips him apart after Nerzhuels attempted escape (now according to you he loses warlock powers, ime w8ting for good information on this please)

Nerzhuel is empowered by Kiljaedens power which could increase any manner of powers, i will want solid evidence in the form of a scan or at least several random sites that state limited Necromancy was all Lich King got from this which aprpently lead to him being a being of unfathomable power (which is where it falls flat and all feasability of him only gaining only meagre powers of undeath goes out the window)

Nothing states he has only the powers of a lich, nothing, show me this information, he is far more than just a Lich, a Lich does not have such mind capacity or conciousness, its unfeasable that an unfathomably powerful being only has minor powers over undeath.

Which is funny because if thats all it takes to be unfathomably powerful, then the aspects are likely useless creatures, ive not seen their statements of unfathomably powerful or anything alike to it, ofc ime merely mocking what your saying, its all BS and assumption with very low feasability.

Whats more likely Kiljaedens overloads the LK with power, which expands LK conciousness to such levels all his powers are bolstered anyway, hes far more than just a Lich.

The orcs' failure to conquer Azeroth as the Legion intended forced Kil'jaeden to create a new army to sew chaos throughout the kingdoms of the Alliance. This new army could not be allowed to fall prey to the same petty rivalries and infighting that had plagued the Horde. It would have to be dogged, merciless, and singleminded in its mission. This time, Kil'jaeden could not afford to fail.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Undead_History

A direct link to additionel information concerning lore directly from Blizzard own site is good enough for me.

Though nothing really indicats it.

No just giving everything up to pick up frostmourne, EVERYTHING which Arthas most surely did his soul and so on.

He didn't get Kil'Jaedens powers, it isn't like Galactus creating a Herald, Kil'Jaeden used his warlock magic to create the lichking nothing even remotely suggest that the Lich King having the Powers that Kil'Jaeden has at his disposal. But we can use your analogy if you like since that would place the Lich King below Kil'Jaeden.

And the Only soul which abilities he has gained.

Kil'jaeden, ever one to reward good service, elevated Gul'dan to Ner'zhul's position, and Ner'zhul was relegated to a decorative position, his powers stripped from him. Kil'jaeden forced Ner'zhul to watch helplessly as the orcs slid into bloodlust and warlock magic. He was powerless to stop the rise of the Shadow Council, privy to all their secrets but able to reveal none.

And that isn't a contradiction so suddenly begin adding more power to a person then what the person have, when another quotes stats that nothing along that line happened.

Originally posted by Utrigita
A direct link to additionel information concerning lore directly from Blizzard own site is good enough for me.

Though nothing really indicats it.

No just giving everything up to pick up frostmourne, EVERYTHING which Arthas most surely did his soul and so on.

He didn't get Kil'Jaedens powers, it isn't like Galactus creating a Herald, Kil'Jaeden used his warlock magic to create the lichking nothing even remotely suggest that the Lich King having the Powers that Kil'Jaeden has at his disposal. But we can use your analogy if you like since that would place the Lich King below Kil'Jaeden.

And the Only soul which abilities he has gained.

And that isn't a contradiction so suddenly begin adding more power to a person then what the person have, when another quotes stats that nothing along that line happened.

please show me

Theres nothing about Holy powers, its just Arthas still, he gives up his life and people around him sure, but nothing about Holy powers, hell Lich King still has Arthas' soul, infact the only place Arthas' powers could have gone is into his soul which may be in the blade, therefore Lich King gains the power.

He has to have Kiljaedens power, since thats all that was used to make Lich King as powerful as he was, and no, weve debated this point earlier, although Kiljaedens power is limited onyl by his mind, nothing stops him putting more than he can understand into a creation, LK could easily simply be more powerful from the power and his expanded mind enabled him superiortiy over his creator.

Its only a contradiction if something says for example he only adds Necromancy, then another source states it wasnt Necromancy but Warlock power, that would be a contradiction, simply adding to it means its an expanded piece of information.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/story/index.html

So you are suggesting that the Arthas with the Frostmourne is the same as the Arthas without the Frostmourne? He will pay any price which he does, he loses his soul becames a undead gains Black Magic where the hell is Holy magic, if a undead gained holy magic the entire idea disappears don't you think?

Well and the Crystal, and you please mind showing me where it stats that the Lich King gains Kil'Jaedens powers and isn't just warped by it? It would be extremely stupid (which Kil'Jaeden isn't) to put more power then you know yourself into a being that have betrayed you and that you doesn't trust a milimeter. Except that even with his expanded mind and power he was still below Archimonde, but again a never ending argument that can only end the day we have full knowlegde of both Characters, that comes from anywhere else then the RPG which you will not accept.

What is strange is that no books mentiones it, no other site mentions it, infact this is the first time I have ever encountered the description that the Lich King would have had his magical abilities enchanced too, but if Becci is correct and Mind is a magical attack then sure his magical abilities has been expanded.

Well I woudnt call the Lich King just any undead, he is simply a spectoral being inside a body, if he used Holy magic it wouldnt be a problem. And no, the Arthas with Frostmourne is a souless shell who may have forgotten Holy powers, but they havnt gone anywehre, you just get a new set of powers in the game but technically nothing takes them away, if their anywhere they would have to have gone in the sword with his soul.

Ime using logic ,it isnt stated, so ime using what you and Blessing like to use to see if you take kindly to it, if a being is only created by Kiljaedens power, then a lot of his power LK must have and use since that is the makup of his being now. Well sure he would, he has the reasurance of the being in question being in a frozen diomand casque and guarded by some of your strongest leutenants.

Mind can never be a magical attack.....magic and the mind are completly diffrent, you dont use magic every time you think, the very thought of thinking the mind is magical makes me sigh with desperation.