Master Malygos Vs. Lich King

A spirit is a undead being. Except that Arthas is classified as a undead being. Proof to show that the holy powers haven't gone anywhere?

You are not using any kind of similar Logic here BT, what we are saying is that the Liches who gained there power from the Lich King (and was transformed along side with him) haven't showed anything besides Frost and Dark and Necromancy. Now the Lich King himself haven't shown any single feat that would implicate that he has obtained other powers from Kil'Jaeden then Necromancy and Black Magic after him being turned into the Lich King but by your logic then the Liches should have demonic powers as well since they where warped by Kil'Jaedens powers too, problem is they haven't then I have no reason to believe that 1. the Lich King would have gained more 2. That Kil'Jaeden should invest some of his own might in a servant he didn't trusted, where the Lich King trust his Liches.
And I don't get the last point of that post.

I haven't played WoW however if a mind attack is classified as a magical attack in WoW then you can disagree all you like and I with you it will still be a magical attack.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Mind can never be a magical attack.....magic and the mind are completly diffrent, you dont use magic every time you think, the very thought of thinking the mind is magical makes me sigh with desperation.

Thinking is not magical, but projecting your thoughts onto another target is magic. Just like a campfire would not be considered magical, while fire manipulation is considered magical.

Originally posted by Burning thought
And no, the Arthas with Frostmourne is a souless shell who may have forgotten Holy powers, but they havnt gone anywehre

Uh, yes they have. Away from him. Do you know anything? 😐 Quit making things up that you have no clue about how they actually work.

Holy magic is like shaman magic. If the spirits abandon you, or in the holy case, if you abandon the light then your holy magic will disappear. You will not forget. The light will abandon you, like how spirits abandon a shaman.

Originally posted by Utrigita
A spirit is a undead being. Except that Arthas is classified as a undead being. Proof to show that the holy powers haven't gone anywhere?

You are not using any kind of similar Logic here BT, what we are saying is that the Liches who gained there power from the Lich King (and was transformed along side with him) haven't showed anything besides Frost and Dark and Necromancy. Now the Lich King himself haven't shown any single feat that would implicate that he has obtained other powers from Kil'Jaeden then Necromancy and Black Magic after him being turned into the Lich King but by your logic then the Liches should have demonic powers as well since they where warped by Kil'Jaedens powers too, problem is they haven't then I have no reason to believe that 1. the Lich King would have gained more 2. That Kil'Jaeden should invest some of his own might in a servant he didn't trusted, where the Lich King trust his Liches.
And I don't get the last point of that post.

I haven't played WoW however if a mind attack is classified as a magical attack in WoW then you can disagree all you like and I with you it will still be a magical attack.

What are you talking about holy powers havnt gone anywehre? your the one saying they have gone not me.

The Lich King gained more than the Liches, far more.....thats the problem with your logic ,Lich King gained so much more than they did, unless your telling me all Liches have 10k fold conciousness now? the Liches and Lich King are not the same beings.

Mind attacks are not magical at all, youve only got Shadow, nature, arcane, elemental (fire and frost), holy and I think thats it, no mind .

Originally posted by Becci
Thinking is not magical, but projecting your thoughts onto another target is magic. Just like a campfire would not be considered magical, while fire manipulation is considered magical.

Uh, yes they have. Away from him. Do you know anything? 😐 Quit making things up that you have no clue about how they actually work.

Holy magic is like shaman magic. If the spirits abandon you, or in the holy case, if you abandon the light then your holy magic will disappear. You will not forget. The light will abandon you, like how spirits abandon a shaman.

Its not magic. if it was then your defeating your own point of "LK never got any magic powerup" that you said earlier. But its not magical.

Okie now show me this, i think your the one making stuff up and inventing things, holy magic disapearing if you abandon the light "sigh" show me or are you going to ignore this ask for proof like you do the rest, then invent something else in the future.

Originally posted by Burning thought
[B]What are you talking about holy powers havnt gone anywehre? your the one saying they have gone not me.

The Lich King gained more than the Liches, far more.....thats the problem with your logic ,Lich King gained so much more than they did, unless your telling me all Liches have 10k fold conciousness now? the Liches and Lich King are not the same beings.

Mind attacks are not magical at all, youve only got Shadow, nature, arcane, elemental (fire and frost), holy and I think thats it, no mind .

Yes I am now I want you to show me that they haven't disappeared, which they imo have since Arthas haven't used them since and Arthas gave everything up at the location of Frostmourne, so it's very simple show me a statement that says that Arthas still have the holy powers at his disposal ore can learn them for that matter.

The Eredar was transformed alongside Kil'Jaeden yet they didn't gain anything near the boost in power Archimonde and him did, that the Liches was transformed along side the Lich King doesn't mean that the Lich King doesn't outclass them in the power department it doesn't mean however that they doesn't didn't gain the same spells as he did.

But a mindcontrol spell is label as a shadow spell and mind flay is too.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Yes I am now I want you to show me that they haven't disappeared, which they imo have since Arthas haven't used them since and Arthas gave everything up at the location of Frostmourne, so it's very simple show me a statement that says that Arthas still have the holy powers at his disposal ore can learn them for that matter.

The Eredar was transformed alongside Kil'Jaeden yet they didn't gain anything near the boost in power Archimonde and him did, that the Liches was transformed along side the Lich King doesn't mean that the Lich King doesn't outclass them in the power department it doesn't mean however that they doesn't didn't gain the same spells as he did.

But a mindcontrol spell is label as a shadow spell and mind flay is too.

Thats a negative, in a debate you dont ask that kind of question, you dont ask "show me proof its not true", you have to prove the statement they are gone, simple, imo tehy are not gone because Arthas couldnt intentially suddenly forget all his powers or toss them away, a mage could not wake up one morning and say I dont want to ever be able to cast this spell again and suddenly its gone.

Either way, theres no proof, or fact he did get teh same spells, he got more power, we know that, its not the same.

"shrug" blame WoW gameplay logic, not me, they need some way of trajectoring resistences, but honestly, mind pwoers are not magical in any fiction, they are in a area of their own

Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats a negative, in a debate you dont ask that kind of question, you dont ask "show me proof its not true", you have to prove the statement they are gone, simple, imo tehy are not gone because Arthas couldnt intentially suddenly forget all his powers or toss them away, a mage could not wake up one morning and say I dont want to ever be able to cast this spell again and suddenly its gone.

Either way, theres no proof, or fact he did get teh same spells, he got more power, we know that, its not the same.

"shrug" blame WoW gameplay logic, not me, they need some way of trajectoring resistences, but honestly, mind pwoers are not magical in any fiction, they are in a area of their own

fine okay

Once the runeblade is used to corrupt his holy powers and turn a hero into a Death Knight, it becomes that knight’s personal weapon and is slowly charged with the life energies of those it injures and slays thereafter

http://www.wowwiki.com/Death_knight_organizations

My proof that the Holy powers are corrupted and are becoming inuseable for the Death Knighs (Arthas)

Now it's your turn to counter my proof so far I have:

The statement from the game, and this link concerning the death knights.

Correct there is no proof however there are imo more proof towards him not having anything else then Black, Necromancy and Frost. He did gain more power yes, he got command over the same school as his Liches (imo) However will his spells be more efficient yes, and will his commmand over the undead be greater then what the other liches can accomplishe yes.

However they are in WoW lore so he did gain a magical boost, his mind.

Originally posted by Burning thought
"shrug" blame WoW gameplay logic, not me, they need some way of trajectoring resistences, but honestly, mind pwoers are not magical in any fiction, they are in a area of their own

You mean any fiction except for Warcraft, right?

hm corrupted yes, but unusuable ime not so sure, also is there reference for that WoWwiki info.

I disagree, the Wowwiki statement is better imo, but the statement of Arthas is irrelevent.

I do not belive this, I think what his Liches get is irrelevent, same with most minions, their master usually has more powers, diffrent powers etc etc.

Nothing ive seen in WoW lore states mind powers as magic "shrug" otherwise that would mean Ysera is not required, Malygos since apprently the mind is magic should of been able to get into anyones mind as well.....which ofc is not the case.

Life, death, nature, mind and more are all magical abilities in Warcraft.

Just because they are, does not mean that Ysera and Alexstrasza serve no purpose. They were not made to fight. They were created to safeguard. Malygos safeguards magic, while Ysera safeguard nature and the dream. Nozdormu safeguard time and Alexstrasza life, Neltharion the earth.

Do you really think that one aspect is useless just because one know the element of another?

Originally posted by Becci
- Fact: Lich King is magical. Malygos is the supreme Azerothian power in magic. In all of existance, only Titans can match him.

After his defeat, he fled to Outlands I believe. He was severely weakened, but could perhaps have recovered.

In all of existence, past and present, or just present?

Just present.

I still wouldn't go so far as to say that he could match a Titan. The Prime Aspects were pretty much dogs compared to them.

Originally posted by Burning thought
hm corrupted yes, but unusuable ime not so sure, also is there reference for that WoWwiki info.

I disagree, the Wowwiki statement is better imo, but the statement of Arthas is irrelevent.

I do not belive this, I think what his Liches get is irrelevent, same with most minions, their master usually has more powers, diffrent powers etc etc.

Nothing ive seen in WoW lore states mind powers as magic "shrug" otherwise that would mean Ysera is not required, Malygos since apprently the mind is magic should of been able to get into anyones mind as well.....which ofc is not the case.

I believe they got it directly from the new lore concerning the Death knigths on Blizzard.com if Holy power are corrupted then they isn't holy any longer, that pretty simple, the only way to gain them back for a tainted Paladin would be to abandon his undead status.

Thats how you look at it I guess, and anyway I have presented my case.

I don't think it is since the Liches was warped by Kil'Jaeden by the same time he warped the Lich King, and more power certainly different well we already knew that he gained command over the frost element and then granted the ability to the liches afterwards, however I haven't seen anything that could suggest the Lich King having more magical spells then what has been mentioned previously.

I have no idea on how to catagorise the mind power and Ysara's connection to the emerald dream, but fact is that in WoW it's magical black magic to be more specific.

Originally posted by DarkC
I still wouldn't go so far as to say that he could match a Titan. The Prime Aspects were pretty much dogs compared to them.

I guess I could have made better choice of words. What I meant was that the only beings that he is not superior is the Pantheon. Any one of the Pantheon surpass him, in my opinion.

That's true, Archimonde was Sargera's second and Malygos still could have wiped the floor with him.

The Lich King, before merging with Arthas, was somewhat more powerful than Kil'jaeden if I recall correctly, who was on par with Archimonde for power. After merging he became pretty damn strong. Gamewise he's tougher to take down than an old god (which is bullshat).

I say Malygos takes this one.

No, Lich King has never been stated to be more powerful than Kil'Jaeden. All he did was break out of Kil'Jaedens enslavement, but that has been done before in similar scenarios without having to be more powerful. Grom and Sylvanas to mention two.

Originally posted by Utrigita
I believe they got it directly from the new lore concerning the Death knigths on Blizzard.com if Holy power are corrupted then they isn't holy any longer, that pretty simple, the only way to gain them back for a tainted Paladin would be to abandon his undead status.

Thats how you look at it I guess, and anyway I have presented my case.

I don't think it is since the Liches was warped by Kil'Jaeden by the same time he warped the Lich King, and more power certainly different well we already knew that he gained command over the frost element and then granted the ability to the liches afterwards, however I haven't seen anything that could suggest the Lich King having more magical spells then what has been mentioned previously.

I have no idea on how to catagorise the mind power and Ysara's connection to the emerald dream, but fact is that in WoW it's magical black magic to be more specific.

Fair enough, if its on Blizzard I cannot argue with that

Well we may as well w8 and find out, but the main point of the argument which i succeeded in was to destroy Blessings constant sayings of "FACT" when its only an assumption.

Originally posted by Becci
Do you really think that one aspect is useless just because one know the element of another?

Well yes because then theres no point of that guardian if another covered that area

Mind is not magic powers

Originally posted by Burning thought
Well yes because then theres no point of that guardian if another covered that area

Mind is not magic powers

No, each Aspect has their set areas of guardianship so that they can FOCUS on it. If Malygos was to safeguard the dream, he could not pay full attention to the magic.

A mind is not magic, but mind projection is.