Classic Beyonder vs Lucifer

Originally posted by Air Legend
Does it matter? No. If Spider-Man says he can lift only 3 tons in a standalone story that is cannon to the main series, and then later on in the main series and until the very end of the main series, says he can lift only 2 tons, (along with every other character including the narrator saying the same thing) and displays maxing out at 2 tons, does that mean he can lift 3 tons?

The same principle applies here.

It was never displayed that Lucifer was at his "limit" when creating the universe. Besides, can't you create pretty much anything with the demiurge? Characters that do not know better referred to it as a universe.

It the latest canon material, it was referred to as a multiverse. Call it a retcon if you must, but it happened.

I accept it as a multiverse. If you do not want to do that, I can both understand and accept it. I do see where you're coming from.

Originally posted by llagrok
The beyonder verse is more infinite than the marvel multiverse.

That one was priceless.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
excuse me, but alternate DIMENSIONS do not have mirror images of characters running about them, that happens in parallel UNIVERSES. dimensions are like the dimension of the norse gods, the dimension of the japanse gos{izanami/susano etc}. what was seen at the mansions of silence were parallel UNIVERSES. "infinity stands up facing infinity" i beleive was there sumwhere. also, and correct me if im wrong, but in nirvana, micheal is still alive, the host of the heavens in still present YAHWEH{the "management" as lucifer refers to it} is still present and lucifer still has his lightbringer powers as opposed to mazikeen. not to mention before 75, lucifer disappeared into nothing and left all of creation forever. so what makes you say that nirvana was incorporated AFTER issue 75 and not after issue 20 or whenever the commercial was given?? because i think it was. and it was written by mike carey and it says that lucifer's creation was a multiverse. it is cannon adn in continuity. understand that words like UNIVERSE and MULTIVERSE are thrown around quite often and fancy as they are, they make more appropriate reading in mainstream comics as opposed to the dark and gritty world of imprints. which is probably why mostoly the multiverse is referred to as CREATION in lucifer. or UNIVERSE at other times, but i beleive that nirvana deifnitvely clears it up as MULTIVERSE.

I guess you could add where Lucifer went beyond the Wall and stood on The Source's shoulder, where the DC Multiverse comes from 😉

lol, i dun wanna add that example cause the source looks friggin ugly in lucifer, not to mention kinda pathetic 😛 . i think that that wall kinda seperates dc from vertigo. ofcourse i wonder what wud happen if he had met darkside there 😄 . what kinda shit the two wud have talked about.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
lol, i dun wanna add that example cause the source looks friggin ugly in lucifer, not to mention kinda pathetic 😛 . i think that that wall kinda seperates dc from vertigo. ofcourse i wonder what wud happen if he had met darkside there 😄 . what kinda shit the two wud have talked about.

Ha that would have been something.. Since you have books of magic, i've heard there has been 2 times where Lucifer and The Spectre have been shown talking to each other, I know of 1 in The Spectre's comic, have you ever heard of a 2nd time?? Maybe in Books of Magic? Or is this not real?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
"excuse me, but alternate DIMENSIONS do not have mirror images of characters running about them, that happens in parallel UNIVERSES. dimensions are like the dimension of the norse gods, the dimension of the japanse gos{izanami/susano etc}. what was seen at the mansions of silence were parallel UNIVERSES. "infinity stands up facing infinity" i beleive was there sumwhere."

Yes the mirrors contain "other universes, other creations, rejected ones perhaps" as said by the captain. I don't see how this correlates to Lucifer leaving some dimensions in his universe incomplete.

Originally posted by llagrok
It was never displayed that Lucifer was at his "limit" when creating the universe. Besides, can't you create pretty much anything with the demiurge? Characters that do not know better referred to it as a universe.

It the latest canon material, it was referred to as a multiverse. Call it a retcon if you must, but it happened.

I accept it as a multiverse. If you do not want to do that, I can both understand and accept it. I do see where you're coming from.

Yea, I guess Yahweh and Elaine don't know better. 🙄

Are you saying that all the issues after NIRVANA which use the word "universe" are non-canon?

Originally posted by kevdude
Ha that would have been something.. Since you have books of magic, i've heard there has been 2 times where Lucifer and The Spectre have been shown talking to each other, I know of 1 in The Spectre's comic, have you ever heard of a 2nd time?? Maybe in Books of Magic? Or is this not real?

in all due fairness, i havent gone through all of the books of magic yet. and since i dont have hardcopies from friends anymore, i downloaded the entire torrent, but thaks to a levels, havent gotten down to reading all of em again. been a while actually. also, i have heard that too and if i remember what i heard correctly, once lucifer is moving the moon and tells spectre to mind his own business and the other time spectre comes to ask him about god and lucifer tells him to move and not block the sunlgiht. although i reallly wanna get a scan of constantine stealing cigerrettes from lucifer. the only other dude about as cool as lucifer in my oppinion.

my POINT with the mirrors was that lucifer's creation as as complete as yahwehs{both have incomplete places/universes etc} and that yahweh's creation is a MULTIVERSE not a UNIVERSE proving th epoint earlier with having those mirror universes INSIDE yahweh's creation making it a multiverse. and no, they arent NON cannon, they are just simplified in language from multiverse to universe and sensibly so because multiverse is kind of a newage/obsessed with the reality of comicbooks.geeky kind of term, the kind super obsessed kids with dungeons and dragons know about their world or star wars obsessed kids know about star wars. it doesnt play as much a purpose in the world of LUCIFER. which i think carey, genius that he saw.

Originally posted by Air Legend
Yea, I guess Yahweh and Elaine don't know better. 🙄

Are you saying that all the issues after NIRVANA which use the word "universe" are non-canon?

I didn't know Yahweh had been to Luficer's multiverse?

Why would Elaine know better? As far as cosmic awareness goes, she hasn't impressed me. She had a really hard time keeping her universe's inhabitants in check.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
my POINT with the mirrors was that lucifer's creation as as complete as yahwehs{both have incomplete places/universes etc} and that yahweh's creation is a MULTIVERSE not a UNIVERSE proving th epoint earlier with having those mirror universes INSIDE yahweh's creation making it a multiverse. and no, they arent NON cannon, they are just simplified in language from multiverse to universe and sensibly so because multiverse is kind of a newage/obsessed with the reality of comicbooks.geeky kind of term, the kind super obsessed kids with dungeons and dragons know about their world or star wars obsessed kids know about star wars. it doesnt play as much a purpose in the world of LUCIFER. which i think carey, genius that he saw.

Whenever you get to know when and what book # that happened in can you let me know? i want to buy it

Originally posted by leonheartmm
my POINT with the mirrors was that lucifer's creation as as complete as yahwehs{both have incomplete places/universes etc} and that yahweh's creation is a MULTIVERSE not a UNIVERSE proving th epoint earlier with having those mirror universes INSIDE yahweh's creation making it a multiverse. and no, they arent NON cannon, they are just simplified in language from multiverse to universe and sensibly so because multiverse is kind of a newage/obsessed with the reality of comicbooks.geeky kind of term, the kind super obsessed kids with dungeons and dragons know about their world or star wars obsessed kids know about star wars. it doesnt play as much a purpose in the world of LUCIFER. which i think carey, genius that he saw.

Also, using multiverse would not have been detrimental to the series. SWII used it and sold a lot more comics than Lucifer series did. Multiverse is just another term that readers can add to their lexicon.

Beyonder wins

It seemed to me that the mirrors were just portals into those universes

Originally posted by Air Legend
Well rejected creations in the form of mirrors doesn't necessarily equate to Yahweh's creation being a multiverse because they were obviously incomplete universes connected to something external. It's more plausible that the mirrors were linked to the void where creations are always being born, rather than universes in the form of mirrors randomly inserted into Yahweh's creation. I mean a universe the size of a mirror? Accepting that is irrational, if ya know what I mean.

Also, using multiverse would not have been detrimental to the series. SWII used it and sold a lot more comics than Lucifer series did. Multiverse is just another term that readers can add to their lexicon.

the mirrors were not the entire universes, what r u nuts? they were GATEWAYS into other universes. and no, they were not connected to the void{otherwise, why wudnt lucifer just use them to escape yahweh's creation and predestination? and whyd he need the gateway?} they were parts of yahweh's multiverse that never matured fully. sigh, anyhow, i think this is exhausted, lucifer;s creation was amultiverse and lucifer wins this.

Originally posted by Air Legend
These are terribly misleading I must say.

you've been told to stop with the sock accusations. you haven't. that's an official warning.

Originally posted by fangirl101
How in the HELL is The molecule man more powerful than the LT when He has NO feats above the LT's?

Does Michael have any feats that surpass Mr. Mxy?

Originally posted by fangirl101
How in the HELL is The molecule man more powerful than the LT when He has NO feats above the LT's? How is the Beyonder stronger than the LT when the beyonder was only everything outside of the multiverse?

Originally posted by King Kandy
Because the LT was scared of them both.

I'm scared of my neighbors' Welsh Corgi, but it's not stronger than me.

It's just really vicious and has very sharp teeth.

Yeah but if it was about to blow up your house and you were still too scared to take action, then it's reasonable to say you didn't think you could stop it.