Classic Beyonder vs Lucifer

Originally posted by leonheartmm
but those dimension{seen to be universes} also exist in yahweh's universe. they were the place where hell was made, they were also the place of the mirrors before the mansions of silence. and if i remember correctly, the add for lucifer nirvana was present in an issue of lucifer before issue 50. and it doesnt matter. the story was written by mike carey who wrote everything else in lucifer. so it is cannon and tells that it was a multiverse.

It doesn't matter that Mike Carey wrote it, one-shot, standalone stories are just that. I'll repeat, he put Lucifer Nirvana at the very end. If Nirvana was not intended to be a standalone, one-shot story, Carey would have incorporated it into volume 3 or 4, not after the end of the Lucifer series. Plus, the numerous on panel showings after Nirvana in the MAIN series stating Lucifer's creation was a universe overrides Lucifer's sole remark. Hell Lucifer himself calls his creation a universe in the main series.

So you refuse to accept Nirvana as canon?

Originally posted by GN. So to win a debate you have to ignore all facts and make your own crazy theory's?_ 🙄

LT doesn't not rule....

Originally posted by fangirl101
My own crazy theory? It is my right to think that the LT is NOt The same as in 1984. The evidence clearly shows this. the LT faced the heart and didn't quake. He rules over the omniverse. Back then he just ruled over a multiverse.

Since back then there only was a multiverse. LT faced the heart and got owned and absorbed.

Originally posted by GN.
Since back then there only was a multiverse. LT faced the heart and got owned and absorbed.

And he FACED He FACED. He didn't quake. He didn't tremble. He wasn't a coward. And he has MORE authority now than then.

Blah blah blah...

"My infinity is greater than your infinity!"

That's all these high level character debates ever really boil down to.

Originally posted by fangirl101
And he FACED He FACED. He didn't quake. He didn't tremble. He wasn't a coward. And he has MORE authority now than then.

That means he was less inpressed with the HOTU then with the Beyonder. Its like saying if spiderman is scared of the LT in the early days. And then in the present hes not scared of a fly. That he has more authority now than then.

Originally posted by Avlon
Blah blah blah...

"My infinity is greater than your infinity!"

That's all these high level character debates ever really boil down to.

Originally posted by GN.
That means he was less inpressed with the HOTU then with the Beyonder. Its like saying if spiderman is scared of the LT in the early days. And then in the present hes not scared of a fly. That he has more authority now than then.

Huh?

Originally posted by fangirl101
And he FACED He FACED. He didn't quake. He didn't tremble. He wasn't a coward. And he has MORE authority now than then.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
So the lT didn't have authority or power over them. now that they do exist, it would seem that the lt's powers has grown to include them and indeed the omniverse.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
In 84 he was only in judgment over the multiverse. The LT's power comes directly from his authority. There is no getting around that. He's far more powerful now than then.

These are terribly misleading I must say.

Originally posted by Air Legend
Dude, I knew you were going to exaggerate dimensions into universes. To put it bluntly, they are not. A dimension is just part of the universe, like Sandalphon's dimension where he kept Michael. Lucifer Nirvana was made around issue 20 (21 if I remember correctly).

It doesn't matter that Mike Carey wrote it, one-shot, standalone stories are just that. I'll repeat, he put Lucifer Nirvana at the very end. If Nirvana was not intended to be a standalone, one-shot story, Carey would have incorporated it into volume 3 or 4, not after the end of the Lucifer series. Plus, the numerous on panel showings after Nirvana in the MAIN series stating Lucifer's creation was a universe overrides Lucifer's sole remark. Hell Lucifer himself calls his creation a universe in the main series.

excuse me, but alternate DIMENSIONS do not have mirror images of characters running about them, that happens in parallel UNIVERSES. dimensions are like the dimension of the norse gods, the dimension of the japanse gos{izanami/susano etc}. what was seen at the mansions of silence were parallel UNIVERSES. "infinity stands up facing infinity" i beleive was there sumwhere. also, and correct me if im wrong, but in nirvana, micheal is still alive, the host of the heavens in still present YAHWEH{the "management" as lucifer refers to it} is still present and lucifer still has his lightbringer powers as opposed to mazikeen. not to mention before 75, lucifer disappeared into nothing and left all of creation forever. so what makes you say that nirvana was incorporated AFTER issue 75 and not after issue 20 or whenever the commercial was given?? because i think it was. and it was written by mike carey and it says that lucifer's creation was a multiverse. it is cannon adn in continuity. understand that words like UNIVERSE and MULTIVERSE are thrown around quite often and fancy as they are, they make more appropriate reading in mainstream comics as opposed to the dark and gritty world of imprints. which is probably why mostoly the multiverse is referred to as CREATION in lucifer. or UNIVERSE at other times, but i beleive that nirvana deifnitvely clears it up as MULTIVERSE.

Originally posted by Avlon
Blah blah blah...

"My infinity is greater than your infinity!"

That's all these high level character debates ever really boil down to.

The beyonder verse is more infinite than the marvel multiverse.

That one was priceless.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Huh?

Okay let make it simple for you to understand.

LT tought he could handle Thanos that why he attacked.
LT knew he had no chance to kill even a weakened Beyonder thats why he feared him.

Beyonder is created with the purpose to be the greathest being ever. Its normal LT feared him.

It has nothing to do with more authority.

Originally posted by GN.
Okay let make it simple for you to understand.

LT tought he could handle Thanos that why he attacked.
LT knew he had no chance to kill even a weakened Beyonder thats why he feared him.

Beyonder is created with the purpose to be the greathest being ever. Its normal LT feared him.

It has nothing to do with more authority.

Thanos with the heart is Superior to the classic beyonder.

The LT when facing the beyonder was only judge over a multiverse.

He is judge over the omniverse now and he FACED the more powerful Thanos without shaking in his boots. Get it? Got it? good.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
so what makes you say that nirvana was incorporated AFTER issue 75 and not after issue 20 or whenever the commercial was given?? because i think it was.

and it was written by mike carey and it says that lucifer's creation was a multiverse. it is cannon adn in continuity. understand that words like UNIVERSE and MULTIVERSE are thrown around quite often and fancy as they are, they make more appropriate reading in mainstream comics as opposed to the dark and gritty world of imprints. which is probably why mostoly the multiverse is referred to as CREATION in lucifer. or UNIVERSE at other times, but i beleive that nirvana deifnitvely clears it up as MULTIVERSE.

So now you're going to use the simplification argument. Not going to work. Secret Wars II was mainstream and they used universe at first, but as the series progressed, the author made it clear that by universe he meant multiverse. It is not a difficult task to accomplish. Carey, however, never referred to Lucifer's creation as a multiverse in the mainstream series, only in the standalone story.

And that doesn't make it canon?

lmao.

Originally posted by llagrok
And that doesn't make it canon?

lmao.

The same principle applies here.

Originally posted by Air Legend
What makes me say that? The fact that I own the entire Lucifer series, and in Volume 11 EVENSONG, Nirvana is added after the end of issue #75 (the last issue) with the back cover saying it's a one-shot. Now try reading or buying the comic, instead of just thinking and making misleading comments.

So now you're going to use the simplification argument. Not going to work. Secret Wars II was mainstream and they used universe at first, but as the series progressed, the author made it clear that by universe he meant multiverse. It is not a difficult task to accomplish. Carey, however, never referred to Lucifer's creation as a multiverse in the mainstream series, only in the standalone story.

hmm im looking at it right now. now please REread this

excuse me, but alternate DIMENSIONS do not have mirror images of characters running about them, that happens in parallel UNIVERSES. dimensions are like the dimension of the norse gods, the dimension of the japanse gos{izanami/susano etc}. what was seen at the mansions of silence were parallel UNIVERSES. "infinity stands up facing infinity" i beleive was there sumwhere. also, and correct me if im wrong, but in nirvana, micheal is still alive, the host of the heavens in still present YAHWEH{the "management" as lucifer refers to it} is still present and lucifer still has his lightbringer powers as opposed to mazikeen. not to mention before 75, lucifer disappeared into nothing and left all of creation forever. so what makes you say that nirvana was incorporated AFTER issue 75 and not after issue 20 or whenever the commercial was given?? because i think it was. and it was written by mike carey and it says that lucifer's creation was a multiverse. it is cannon adn in continuity. understand that words like UNIVERSE and MULTIVERSE are thrown around quite often and fancy as they are, they make more appropriate reading in mainstream comics as opposed to the dark and gritty world of imprints. which is probably why mostoly the multiverse is referred to as CREATION in lucifer. or UNIVERSE at other times, but i beleive that nirvana deifnitvely clears it up as MULTIVERSE.

nirvana is just after lucifer makes his own multiverse. and those DIMENSIONS as ive explained earlier were parallel universe "infinity facing upto infinity" with parallel versions of characters running about. how else do you explain a new cal with no speach imparment emerging from them after the original was dead.?

Originally posted by Mindset
SHUT UP AVLON

LULZ @ U