Ultimate Cap vs 616 Spider-Man

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Where does it state that Ult. Cap is getting weaker? Herr Kleiser taunted him that he used to be faster. So what? Despite no on-panel depiction of him requiring continuing maintenance of the SSS, you're going to inject some wild theory that Ult. Cap is slowly getting weaker? First, what the hell does that have to do with this debate?

So wild his work out scene and rock tend to fit the bill. Yes you are right that Kleiser said he slowed down. What does this have to do with the debate. Everything considering Spiderman has improved while U.Cap is the opposite.

I never showed feats from World War II that suggest some level of strength he doesn't have anymore. Second, where did you get this "Millar statement" from anyway? Proof, please? Considering you actually stated 616 Cap one-shotted Korvac and Hulk, I have every reason to doubt your truthfulness.

No but you never showed an true lifting strength feats that rival Spiderman either. The lonely tree lift is your only "high end" feat for true strength that you have. And considering that Azrael has done that plus this is the same Azrael that stalemated Slade in strength as they were portrayed equals. Well that just shows how thats feat is not too high on the totem of strength to begin with. As even Wolverine used a big tree like a bat/weapon anyhow.

The Millar statement came from his website on the Millar forums.

Originally Posted by Mark Millar
Cheers, Gib. Just off the phone from Bryan and we spent 90 mins going over all the boards and patting ourselves on the back. Pathetic, really, but we're more into this than anyone.

Quite a few smart insights into what we have coming up, based on little clues we've sprinkled throughout this story. Yes, Cap is indeed weakening a little. This has been very subtle.

MM

You wanted Millars statement there it is. I imagine you'll just say now you don't care for writers statements anyways.

I already admitted being wrong on one shotting Korvac and admitted to it. Hulk the the fact that he put him down with 3 punches speaks for itself anyways as Spiderman just helped with one punch still holds much.

I admit my mistake you can't even do that for you lie on the one shot on U.juggs.......LOL

And stop misquoting or mischaracterizing on-panel events. Rogers never admitted that moving those rocks was too much for him. When he comments that there are "people better suited to the heavy lifting," he's referring to the god damn Statue of Liberty itself. You see the damn thing being pulled out of the harbor accompanying his sentence. He never once admits the rocks he's lifting are too much for him. Stop trying to mislead people. I have most of the comics in front of me and a scanner. I will scan them and prove you wrong publically. If you're not that devious and are just reading the damn things with bias filling your mind, knock it off. It completely undermines your arguments. If you're not even doing that and it was an innocent mistake, then learn how to read comics. There have been too many "innocent mistakes" throughout this thread to take you seriously:

Where my theory fits with his weight lifting scene and the rock incident scene that you can't even comprehend.

Lets look at it closer. I'll post a bigger scan in case some has trouble to read the words. If anything you like U.Cap to much and views on him and his feats are scewed off the charts at that. Especially since you stated U.Cap can go toe to toe with U.Hulk pretty much speaks for itself.

U.Cap saids "There are people better suited for the heavy lifting" As in the panel before we see him resting as if he couldn't budge that bigger rock.

Why would he be referencing to the statue of liberty if thats not what he's lifting??? " people better suited for the heavy lifting" Rocks are heavy, statues are heavier. He's referencing for heavy lifting. No were does he say the statue. Showing your are misquoting and biasing again.

U.Cap even saids "If we can roll" implying he needs Falcons help and can't move that one on his own.

As Falcon states " It can wait" and then U.Cap implies there are better people suited for "heavy lifting".

Yeah you just showed how bias you are. This matches my theory and so does U.Cap work out scene, that you also show a illogical view on as well.

Point is others see this now as well.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Daredevil1, two questions to put your Ult. Juggernaut arguments to rest: 1) How was Ult. Juggernaut captured off-panel then, if Ult. Cap did not knock him out? 2) How strong do you have to be to send Ult. Juggernaut flying horizontally through a wall anyway?

Since it doesn't show how U.Juggs was captured off panel its irrelevant and out of the evidence. Plus I see you ignore the deadly gas around the area as even U.Cap had to wear a mask against it.

How strong do you have to be. Eh I've seen Cap batt around Rhino like a punching bag. Its a impressive feat but nothing superior to Spiderman or 616 Cap for that matter.

Answer them directly. When you do, you'll realize you have to make the inane assumption that regular SHIELD agents managed to subdue Ult. Juggernaut. And even if you won't back away from that ridiculous assertion, you still fail to accept the impressive nature of Ult. Cap kicking him and sending him flying horizontally anyway. That willful ignorance undermines your arguments.

Sending U.Juggs is "impressive" but not the be all and end all type of feat. Your ignorance to make it seem something way more then what it is, is quite staggering and deceptive at that. Since you won't even admit to being wrong. One shot? Again no were to be seen.

Also, Ult. Hulk knew what was going on because he made the antidote and the adamantium needle and purposefully left it for the Ultimates to use. Did you read that part of the story? If he woke up and saw that, he'd know instantly what was going on. More importantly, even by your logic that he was somehow awake the entire time, why would he let Ult. Cap have a whole conversation and get within inches of injecting him?

Banner does know.........Ult. Hulk did not. Unless you can prove otherwise. That brief conversation was just that brief. So he was hurt but not out. And even if he did have a flash. Have you ever been stunned in a fight that you go down and are not out but need to recuperate. Its not that hard to imagine and even if he was actually out and I seriously doubt it. Considering what U.Hulk just went through prior. Its impressive but again not something outside of a lot of characters abilities like 616 Cap or Spiderman for that matter.

I have not used a double standard between the Ult. Hulk fight and the Ult. Abom fight. There is one single standard, and that is how dialogue illustrates what happened in both scenes. 1) Ult. Cap was talking to SHIELD, stood over Ult. Hulk and got within inches of injecting him. That dialogue is evidence Ult. Hulk was briefly knocked out. Had he been awake the whole time, he would not let Ult. Cap stand over him and get within inches of injecting him. He understood the threat of the needle immediately upon waking because he designed the damn thing and left it for the Ultimates. 2) Abdul was talking to Ult. Cap and telling him to get up. He also addresses him as "Sir" and explains he's been waiting half his life for this BEFORE the end of that issue. Had he been unconscious, he wouldn't be requesting him to get up or addressing him directly.

You've shown your double standard your attempt to cover it up has already been exposed. That dialog is evidence for U.Hulk was briefly stunned. Had he been really out then U.Cap what have succeeded and doing what he was trying to do.
Plus let see this proof that U.Hulk remembered that Banner created that??

Or is this again something you say thats not supported by the books. I'll take the ladder on this one.

As you can see, I asserted no double standard. The dialogue in both scenes informs my interpretation and they should do the same for you. To assume Ult. Hulk was awake in the former requires the inane assumption that Ult. Hulk let him get within inches of injecting him. To assume Ult. Cap was unconscious in the latter requires the inane assumption that Abdul was talking to himself, when he requested he get up and addressed him as "Sir." Tying this back to Ult. Juggernaut, to assume Ult. Juggernaut was conscious requires the inane assumption that SHIELD agents subdued him off-panel. Your arguments are attenuated to the Nth degree. Instead of accepting what's depicted on-panel, you go to insane lengths to assume ridiculous concepts, solely in an attempt to undermine Ult. Cap's feats. Your bias is clear in your subsequent derisions of the character. Which is fine, especially when your arguments have holes the size of Texas in them and utilize triple-standards.

So what? U.Cap talked and yet U.Hulk got back up fine and dandy. U.Thor also put him down and yet U.Hulk let U.Thor do this long winded speech and then got up fine and dandy as well. You have no proof whatsover that U.Hulk was truly KO'ed. The fact that your reaching for such shows how far you'll go to try to remake the scene.

And even if it was a flash KO which is not. Considering the circumstances its a nice U.Cap feat but considering the said circumstances of U.Ironman making U.Hulk hammering him and making U.Hulk puke his lungs out and then using a last ditch attack to send him out of the high building. To Wasp keeping him preoccupied for a high tank fall.

Your reaching for a glorious top notch feat that surpasses all others, which is not there to begin with.

I believe its pretty obvious you have shown your arguments to be what they really are. As see above with the rock seen. Shield agents considering some are enhanced is not that logical for them to subdue him especially with the gas there. Especially since we don't know what else occurred. Anything could have happened off panel. The fact that you argue that is up surd.

Abdui talking to Cap is about as irrelevant my mom telling me to get up when I was asleep for school when I was a kid. Heck maybe he was even trash talking U.Cap saying I've been waiting to rip that star out of your chest to wake him up.

Bottom line is the time frame hurts your argument much more then that small conversation for U.Hulk.

And again I see you have provided no proof for your theory that the time frame occurred in the past LOL.

I think the rock scene shows your bias. As others now see it as well for what it really is.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
B Went toe-to-toe with Ult. Hulk

Plus the fact that you say this discredits all of your feats.

Someone that can go toe to toe implies the close to one another's respective powers levels. The fact that the rest of there showing implies U.Cap could not and U.Hulk treated him like a nat is funny at best LOL.

Seriously your reaching for all of your feats and ignore the circumstances that appear before the pages of the books. You cherry pick what you want to see and distort and put words in my mouth.

Seriously you lost this debate long ago with the very first one with me and Phantam against you.

Exposed. 😄 🙂 😈

Daredevil, you are so unbelievably terrible at reading comics it sickens me. Look AT THE COMIC. Ult. Cap says, "There are people better suited to the heavy lifting... someone has to take care of the dead." OBVIOUSLY, he is the one taking care of the dead victims buried beneath rubble. The OTHER heroes are taking care of lifting the Statue of Liberty. What in holy blazes don't you fugging get?! Ult. Falcon doesn't even help him at all with that one boulder! He just pulls the dead body out. Are you f'ing blind!?

Gawd. You can't even answer a simple question without equivocating or dodging!!!!! You're absolutely terrible at debating. It doesn't even matter that you come up with bs statements like "Cap one-shotted Korvac," or "Ult. Cap never really gets his by Ult. Abom," or "Ult. Wasp sucks Ult. Hulk's strength away." You can't even read two pages of comics without your bias creeping up to bite you in your own butt.

I would be laughing at you if it wasn't so damn painful to read your posts. Seriously. Leave the debating to Phantomzone and the rest.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Daredevil, you are so unbelievably terrible at reading comics it sickens me. Look AT THE COMIC. Ult. Cap says, "There are people better suited to the heavy lifting... someone has to take care of the dead." OBVIOUSLY, he is the one taking care of the dead victims buried beneath rubble. The OTHER heroes are taking care of lifting the Statue of Liberty. What in holy blazes don't you fugging get?!

Gawd. You can't even answer a simple question without equivocating or dodging!!!!! You're absolutely terrible at debating. It doesn't even matter that you come up with bs statements like "Cap one-shotted Korvac," or "Ult. Cap never really gets his by Ult. Abom," or "Ult. Wasp sucks Ult. Hulk's strength away." You can't even read two pages of comics without your bias creeping up to bite you in your own butt.

I would be laughing at you if it wasn't so damn painful to read your posts. Seriously. Leave the debating to Phantomzone and the rest.

All that babble and you don't even make a point at all. Seriously do you not understand what the pictures and words show???

You want me to answer a question when there is "no" evidence shown for the question, in the pages to begin with. Can you not grasp that you have no evidence what so ever for U.Jugg being one shotted. LOL for all I know anything could have happened off panel.

Wasp sucks Ult.Hulk's strength away.......LOL I said wasp calmed him down. She doesn't have the ability to drain as you put it.

Again all your showing is nothing but your own biased views again. Seriously you don't know how to debate as even others say you are fan wanking.........LOL.

I'm just glad you can't go back and re-edit your posts indefinitely, thanks to the 15 minute rule. Thank you mods for that one.

You give U.Cap fans a bad name. "shrugs"
Seriously just give up even U.Cap doesn't deserve that.

Nice job dodging the questions again. And also dodging the ridiculous mistakes you argued with the clearing rubble scan. If I pointed out every single time I corrected you throghout this thread, it'd take a god damn page. Spiderman fans deserve a better debator then you. You're terrible at debating. Absolutely illiterate when it comes to reading comics. You've dodged so many direct and simple questions and abandoned so many points after being proved wrong it's like watching a god damn car accident in slow motion.

I know you are but what am I.

Is your best evidence. Prove it?

Its as simple as that. Show were Juggs is uncounciouse from that hit.

And also show that the said gas did not affect or hinder Juggs.

Were is your proof for you claims.

OneDumbGO: Please quit debating.

LOL
😮‍💨

Spidey shouldn't have a really big problem taking Cap in this battle.

Here's a few gems from this thread's debate from you, you utterly awful excuse for a debater:

Daredevil1, "Even in a issue were it shows them moving subs and other heavy equipment it shows U.Ironman and Captain Britain doing all the work as U.Cap is not bothering.........hmmmmmm I wonder why." Gee. Maybe because he doesn't breathe underwater or fly? Yeah... if that doesn't make sense... you can go ahead and keep wondering why.

Daredevil1, "Cap has one shotted by your definition of it anyhow Korvac, Thunderball, Hulk" No comment necessary. Somewhere baby Jesus is still crying because you actually said something like this.

Daredevil1, "Cap's... Even healed from a bullet to the head in a mere minute" The supremely sad thing is... YOU were the one who introduced the damn scan to us in the first place and you utterly failed to notice that the doctor says 12 minutes: http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7548/page003004sn5.jpg What are you, illiterate?! It was your OWN scan!!!!

Daredevil1, "Abom telegraphed that attack from a mile away plus the fist don't look to be actually connecting make it vague at best."On this scan: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=10341029 You actually sit there and say that Ult. Abom connecting is vague?! Are you blind?!

Daredevil1, "The Wasp calms him down. Which lowers his power extremely." Oh noez! Ult. Wasp lowered his power so extremely that Ult. Hulk was only able to tear a reinforced tank apart like paper! Which means Ult. Cap only briefly knocked out a foe that had the strength level to tear a tank like it was cardboard! Wow. So weak! [/sarcasm]

Daredevil1, "Second they say the name "Hard-Drive" is that juggernauts name?" Your ignorance continues to amaze. Hard-Drive is the name of another mutant in the room. For god's sake, they talk to each other in the preceding pages!!!!11

Daredevil1, "No I haven't even touched true low feats for U.Cap but if you want to head that route how about a group of humans holding him down when he was facing zola." Of course, you completely ignored the clusterf@ck that Ult. Cap crashed into and had to climb out of: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=10655905 Yeah... hard to see considering it happens on the, let's say it together: the PRECEDING PAGE!!!

Daredevil1, "Spiderman lifts up the darn daily bugle." You honestly believe he lifted the entire Daily Bugle? Utterly fantastic. Good job showing your unbiased interpretations. He helped support the building's foundations.

Daredevil1, "PS. Yeah King thor was hurt and back to his original powers but even so he showed he could put his energy through Cap's unbreakable shield which even Hulk and gladiator couldn't dent." GAWD. King Thor regained his Odinforce power when he took off Dr. Strange's amulet! It happens in the SAME EXACT PANEL that he kills Cap: http://img107.imageshack.us/my.php?image=page0203wn.jpg Are you kidding me?!

Daredevil1, "And him listening to the challenge of one vs one and no one getting involved was after the fact, not when U.Cap was down. But after U.Cap got up then he listened to that." Another gem. Abdul talks to him before he gets up. He asks him to "On your feet, sir... I've waited half my life to rip that star off your chest." It's right there on the friggin pages!!! Did you skip these two pages?! Honestly:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=10341029
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=10679522

Daredevil1, "Me bringing up the power gem is relevant because you mentioned U.Juggs stalemated U.Collosus as a testament to U.Cap "one shotting him" and yet when he stalemated U.Collosus he had the power gem IIRC." The first time Ult. Juggernaut beats Ult. Colossus is back in Ult. X-Men #8. Ult. Juggernaut didn't get the Gem of Cytorrak until wellllll after this and 'Ultimate War.' Your utter ignorance of the Ultimate Universe continues to amaze.

Daredevil1, "U.Hulk immediately responded as he knew what he was doing and even told him to get that thing away from him IIRC. Showing U.Hulk knew exactly what was going on and even broke the needle... Banner does know.........Ult. Hulk did not. Unless you can prove otherwise." Ult. Hulk RETAINS Banner's memories. Why is this obvious?! Because he friggin remembers Betty is having dinner with Freddie Prinze Jr. and is hunting them down. The only time Betty tells him this is before Banner changes when he's ont he damn payphone in the prior issue!!! GAWD. He designed and gave the Ultimates the god damned needle before transforming. Of course he knew what was going on with the damn needle. But since it was the prior issue... and you can't even read prior pages... I should have expected another EPIC PHAIL.

Daredevil1, "In a annual he even admitted moving these big rocks is to much of a task for him as others are more capable and then the next page it shows the characters he's talking about." Never admitted moving those rocks were too much. Utterly wrong. The heavy lifting he was referring to was salvaging the Statue of Liberty. He obviously is lifting the rocks by himself and taking care of the dead beneath the rubble: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=10677677

Daredevil1, "Stick it is." Of course, had you bothered to look at the scan, you'll see he picks up the damn bone from the remains of Ult. Red Guardian's cannibalized shield on the ground. But considering you don't like reading the panels, I wasn't surprised at all: http://img428.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitledscanned132ft.jpg

Daredevil1, "U.Cap even saids "If we can roll" implying he needs Falcons help and can't move that one on his own." He doesn't even have Ult. Falcon help him! Ult. Falcon just pulls the person out while he pushes it off the victim himself! Look at the art! Look at the panel that you yourself posted: http://img71.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img004ow9.jpg

I wonder how many more gems like these you'll drop. Do you understand now why I have absolutely lost all faith in your reading comprehension skills? This has nothing to do with your obvious bias anymore. You just can't even plain read comics, are ignorant of characters, ignore what happens on the preceding page, turn 12 minutes into 1 minute and actually believed that Cap one-shotted Korvac or that Spidey lifted up the entire Daily Bugle. Please. And I'm supposed to take your arguments seriously? HA!

Bump

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Here's a few gems from this thread's debate from you, you utterly awful excuse for a debater:

Daredevil1, [b]"Even in a issue were it shows them moving subs and other heavy equipment it shows U.Ironman and Captain Britain doing all the work as U.Cap is not bothering.........hmmmmmm I wonder why." Gee. Maybe because he doesn't breathe underwater or fly? Yeah... if that doesn't make sense... you can go ahead and keep wondering why.

LOL in a universe were he can be given easily a suit to do so. Wow your such a genius. Maybe because he can’t and is weak compared to them. You can go ahead and keep wondering why. 🙂

[QUOTE Daredevil1, "Cap has one shotted by your definition of it anyhow Korvac, Thunderball, Hulk" No comment necessary. Somewhere baby Jesus is still crying because you actually said something like this. [/QUOTE]

Korvac he hurt. Thunderball he briefly put down at least I don’t assume he’s KO’ed TB, the way you do for a certain feat.. Hulk he put down with a mere 3 punches and Spidey did 1 punch.. See easily matching or exceeding U.Cap, you can barely prove U.Cap is above 616 Cap. Thanks for pointing that out…..LOL. I imagine your crying now. Don’t worry they say baby Jesus will heal you?

Rivaling Spiderman stats……..ha what a joke.

Daredevil1, "Cap's... Even healed from a bullet to the head in a mere minute" The supremely sad thing is... YOU were the one who introduced the damn scan to us in the first place and you utterly failed to notice that the doctor says 12 minutes: http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7548/page003004sn5.jpg What are you, illiterate?! It was your OWN scan!!!!

Wow. You sure did belittle that feat and it makes it look less impressive then anything that U.Cap has ever done. Oh wait……you didn’t. Healed from a bullet to the head in 12 minutes after being deemed dead. Not to shabby. Thanks again for displaying it, you make this to easy.

Daredevil1, "Abom telegraphed that attack from a mile away plus the fist don't look to be actually connecting make it vague at best."On this scan: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=10341029 You actually sit there and say that Ult. Abom connecting is vague?! Are you blind?!

LOL considering you stated.

Rolling with the blow means that you move your head or body along with the momentum of whatever is hitting you. That presupposes you can move your head or body in the direction the blow's force is taking you. Iron Man punches Cap in the face in 'Civil War.' There's obviously space where his head can move.

Cap takes a nasty beating from a blood lusted Ironman.
http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericaann0918to3.jpg
http://img455.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericaann0919zm0.jpg
http://img68.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericaann0921tj0.jpg
http://img64.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericaann0923ax6.jpg

Even worse from Spiderman/Ironman and then some.
http://img162.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0020ke1.jpg
http://img162.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0021rz1.jpg
http://img77.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0022nz4.jpg
http://img252.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0006hc1.jpg
http://img77.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0007nc4.jpg
http://img106.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0008dd0.jpg

Geee are you blind. Do you not see what Cap is taking there. At least here we know Ironmans hits are landing. U.Cap vs Abom you can’t even tell his fists are colliding with U.Cap’s face. It’s the art work that hinders you.

Anyhow even if we assume both are getting hit. You didn’t even prove that U.Cap has superior durability to Cap anyhow……..rimshot. Again moot point and far too easy.

Let alone far from showing he rivals Spiderman as you’ve been babbling on about in all this thread. LOL

Daredevil1, "The Wasp calms him down. Which lowers his power extremely." Oh noez! Ult. Wasp lowered his power so extremely that Ult. Hulk was only able to tear a reinforced tank apart like paper! Which means Ult. Cap only briefly knocked out a foe that had the strength level to tear a tank like it was cardboard! Wow. So weak! [/sarcasm]

Wow he tore a tank. OMG that’s a class 100 feat like 616 Hulk destroying an asteroid and Gladitor punching a small planet apart. LOL

Seriously Spiderman destroyed and lifted tanks easily. So to you that’s major impressive.

Daredevil1, "Second they say the name "Hard-Drive" is that juggernauts name?" Your ignorance continues to amaze. Hard-Drive is the name of another mutant in the room. For god's sake, they talk to each other in the preceding pages!!!!11

Eh just curios to who Hard Drive is. You proved nothing with this. On U.Cap rivaling Spiderman.

Daredevil1, "No I haven't even touched true low feats for U.Cap but if you want to head that route how about a group of humans holding him down when he was facing zola." Of course, you completely ignored the clusterf@ck that Ult. Cap crashed into and had to climb out of: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=10655905 Yeah... hard to see considering it happens on the, let's say it together: the PRECEDING PAGE!!!

Yeah he climbed out but don’t pretend he was under 50 feet of debris or something.

As you see in the bottom of the left hand corner. Not that much climbing did he do. Still impressive and I’ll bet he was hindered. Funny how you accept these circumstances 100 % and yet ignore U.Hulks circumstances in regards his fight with U.Hulk. Again why is that?...........Oh yeah bias. LOL

Let’s see these circumstances.

Lets see U.Ironman hurting him bad….check.
Lets see Wasp calming him down….check.
Lets see a high rise tank drop on him……check.

Yeah that’s what I thought.

Not to mention if you notice out of the debris U.Cap’s face is really unhurt. And look what these regular joes do to his vast superior durability that rivals Spiderman and is superior to 616 Cap.

Oh wait. That’s right circumstances count for U.Cap but not for U.Hulk. Yeah they should change the phrase of Milk. From…….got milk………to…..got bias. LOL

Daredevil1, "Spiderman lifts up the darn daily bugle." You honestly believe he lifted the entire Daily Bugle? Utterly fantastic. Good job showing your unbiased interpretations. He helped support the building's foundations.

Lifting up a huge portion that’s shown is greater then a petty tree. Plus even without that one there are his many others like lifting tanks easily and breaking them apart. To lifting a metro train or and big bus…..easily.

And countered way easier.

Daredevil1, "PS. Yeah King thor was hurt and back to his original powers but even so he showed he could put his energy through Cap's unbreakable shield which even Hulk and gladiator couldn't dent." GAWD. King Thor regained his Odinforce power when he took off Dr. Strange's amulet! It happens in the SAME EXACT PANEL that he kills Cap: http://img107.imageshack.us/my.php?image=page0203wn.jpg Are you kidding me?!

And by your logic we should ignore circumstances. Oh wait only if its U.Cap…..LOL. *** for tat I see no feats of U.Cap rivaling Spiderman.

Daredevil1, "And him listening to the challenge of one vs one and no one getting involved was after the fact, not when U.Cap was down. But after U.Cap got up then he listened to that." Another gem. Abdul talks to him before he gets up. He asks him to "On your feet, sir... I've waited half my life to rip that star off your chest." It's right there on the friggin pages!!! Did you skip these two pages?! Honestly:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=10341029
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=10679522

And does he get up immediately? No……….. actual 6 pages happen next.

Heck even in the next book we still don’t see U.Cap get up in the first page either.

Did you skip those 7 pages?!........Honestly.

Daredevil1, "Me bringing up the power gem is relevant because you mentioned U.Juggs stalemated U.Collosus as a testament to U.Cap "one shotting him" and yet when he stalemated U.Collosus he had the power gem IIRC." The first time Ult. Juggernaut beats Ult. Colossus is back in Ult. X-Men #8. Ult. Juggernaut didn't get the Gem of Cytorrak until wellllll after this and 'Ultimate War.' Your utter ignorance of the Ultimate Universe continues to amaze.

And even if I trust your statements which I don’t since you interpret and lie on everything. How does this prove U.Jugg is out from U.Cap’s hit.

He’s no were shown unconscious. Denial…….isn’t just a river in Egypt. That’s for sure.

Daredevil1, "U.Hulk immediately responded as he knew what he was doing and even told him to get that thing away from him IIRC. Showing U.Hulk knew exactly what was going on and even broke the needle... Banner does know.........Ult. Hulk did not. Unless you can prove otherwise." Ult. Hulk RETAINS Banner's memories. Why is this obvious?! Because he friggin remembers Betty is having dinner with Freddie Prinze Jr. and is hunting them down. The only time Betty tells him this is before Banner changes when he's ont he damn payphone in the prior issue!!! GAWD. He designed and gave the Ultimates the god damned needle before transforming. Of course he knew what was going on with the damn needle. But since it was the prior issue... and you can't even read prior pages... I should have expected another EPIC PHAIL.

Wow he remembers Freddie Prinze Jr and that equates to him remembering the needle. Definitely adds up……wait for it………..not. Again you fail.

And even if he does you still have no proof that he was out. I can say he was stunned. Thus making it debatable/irrelevant.

Daredevil1, "In a annual he even admitted moving these big rocks is to much of a task for him as others are more capable and then the next page it shows the characters he's talking about." Never admitted moving those rocks were too much. Utterly wrong. The heavy lifting he was referring to was salvaging the Statue of Liberty. He obviously is lifting the rocks by himself and taking care of the dead beneath the rubble: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=10677677

And no were does it state that. Again you fail miserably and ignore what’s on the page for you distorted version. In fact you distort it more then a cosmic being capable or warping reality……..LOL

Daredevil1, "Stick it is." Of course, had you bothered to look at the scan, you'll see he picks up the damn bone from the remains of Ult. Red Guardian's cannibalized shield on the ground. But considering you don't like reading the panels, I wasn't surprised at all: http://img428.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitledscanned132ft.jpg

Accept the bones on his shield are curved, thicker and smaller in comparison, to the one that U.Cap grabbed. As seen here on the Guardian’s shield. But I guess you didn’t see the difference or just plainly ignored it.

And even if it was a bone………big deal. Doesn’t speak much for the Guardian’s invulnerability.

Daredevil1, "U.Cap even saids "If we can roll" implying he needs Falcons help and can't move that one on his own." He doesn't even have Ult. Falcon help him! Ult. Falcon just pulls the person out while he pushes it off the victim himself! Look at the art! Look at the panel that you yourself posted: http://img71.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img004ow9.jpg

Falcon saids the dead can wait. And know it doesn’t show U.Cap move that last rock and that’s the point. As he brings up there are others betters suited for heavy lifting. Geee I wonder who he’s talking about.

I wonder how many more gems like these you'll drop. Do you understand now why I have absolutely lost all faith in your reading comprehension skills? This has nothing to do with your obvious bias anymore. You just can't even plain read comics, are ignorant of characters, ignore what happens on the preceding page, turn 12 minutes into 1 minute and actually believed that Cap one-shotted Korvac or that Spidey lifted up the entire Daily Bugle. Please. And I'm supposed to take your arguments seriously? HA! [/B]

Its rather easy to counters your debate points this being the easiest one. Seriously you have failed utterly to prove U.Cap rivals Spiderman. With your evidence of U.Cap one shotting U.Juggs when there’s no proof whatsoever or that U.Cap rivals Spiderman in stats when you show no proof whatsoever and ignore circumstances for U.Cap’s feat and accept circumstances for other.

It’s a wonder why posters are putting you down.

Seriously. You’ve established nothing.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
General consensus has Ult. Cap stronger, faster and more durable than 616 Cap.

Faster....Ha. You barely showed hes stronger/more durable then 616 Cap. Not by much at all if any.

Faster you got a long way to go. Heck you haven't even started.

When U.Cap does feat like these get back to me.

Cap moving in bullet time via Matrix.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/...vgrs6916fv7.jpg

Cap getting in front of bullets as they are in mid air.

http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/...sv300505ng4.jpg

Cap with metal glove blocks random energy beams, definitely fast hand speed.
http://img474.imageshack.us/my.php?...ers17004yb3.jpg

Cap dodges beams unders zero gravity.
http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?...6rougherpv4.jpg
http://img421.imageshack.us/my.php?...8rougherbg7.jpg

Cap blocks mulitple beams in different areas.
http://img458.imageshack.us/my.php?...sv300506mm5.jpg

Again blocks mulitiple beams in different areas.
http://img475.imageshack.us/my.php?...sv300807tk8.jpg

Cap trapped in a floor designed to spin with beams coming from all direction.
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/67...sv103217or6.jpg
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/49...sv103218yi9.jpg

Cap in volume 3 dodging beams again.
http://img169.imageshack.us/my.php?...av303913jt7.jpg

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

4) One-shotting a class 100 like Ult. Juggernaut with a single blow. No prior fighting, no outside interference. Just a single blow.

You still haven't even established proof U.Juggs was KO'ed.

No outside interference did you just completely ignore the gas in the room and even your precious U.Cap was wearing a gas mast......LOL.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Went toe-to-toe with Ult. Hulk

Yeah he can definitely go toe to toe with him.

So much fact U.Thor has to save him.

Wait maybe U.Cap goes toe to toe with him here.

Ooooops I guess not. Well at least he can knock him off balance after U.Hulk's already been hurt. And at least he KO'ed him oooh wait it just looks like he stunned him a bit as U.Hulk easily took manhandled him.

LOL

Keep it up. By all means, keep bumping the thread. Everytime I see this thread dip to the second page, I think, maybe I should bump it. But other people do it for me. And you, despite the utter spanking you recieve, continue to do it for me. Do I need to go on and repeat your idiocies throughout this thread? I pointed out how blind you are again, about how Ult. Cap is the one lifting the rock and not Ult. Falcon. It's right there on the panel. Look at it:
http://img71.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img004ow9.jpg Where, in that fourth panel, do you see Ult. Falcon helping Rogers, eh? Seriously. Some people argue that comic readers don't read the words and just look at the pretty pictures. You can't even look at the pretty pictures! HA!

I'll never forget how stupid you were, for thinking that 616 Cap one-shotted Korvac. Or for not even knowing the difference between the characters Hard-Drive and Ult. Juggernaut, even though they talk to each other in the preceding damn pages. And that isn't even half the list. I'll remind you from time to time just how wrong and idiotic your arguments have been.

In the meantime, let's see what I newly disproved to you and how your retarded recalcitrance can't own up to your own mistakes:

You actually compared Ult. Hulk tearing a tank apart with his bare hands as being comparable to 616 Spidey lifting a tank and destroying it by smashing it down? Wow. Another gold star for you. Answer this question directly: "What takes more strength, tearing a tank apart and overturning it one-handed OR lifting up a tank and smashing it onto another tank?" ANSWER IT. No more dodging. I won't even force you to admit that the tank Ult. Hulk dealt with was much larger than the ones 616 Spidey encountered. Answer the question in quotes.

And of course, I just utterly proved to you that Ult. Hulk retains his memories from Banner and you still can't own up to your pwnage. You feebly tried to equivocate and undermine the fact that Ult. Hulk retains Banner's memories. I just utterly proved to you that even memories of their most recent payphone conversation were retained. And you have the gall to sit there and say, "Yeah, well... that doesn't really mean he remembered about the needle. *whine* *whimper*" You didn't even remember that Banner prepared the antidote needle and left it for the Ultimates right before he injected himself with the Hulk serum, did you? Damn. I should have tested you on that, considering you can't read single panels, don't bother to read preceding pages or comics in general. You make this so easy, it's like stepping on a baby kitten. But you know what? I've been enjoying stomping you every step of the way.

Especially coming from a poster who honestly asserted that 616 Cap one-shotted Korvac. Or who can't even distinguish the number twelve from one. Learn to read. Hooked on phonics, much?

P.S. Stop spamming the thread with scans you already posted. I know you want to push the page that lists your idiocies forward so people don't see it. But it's been up for a day already and logged 100+ views already. Spamming the same exact scans over and over without adding anything new is against forum rules. Knock it off.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

616 Spiderman may be superior, but Ult. Cap's a better fighter and his physical stats either rival or surpass 616 Spiderman's. Please.

Right he rivals Spiderman so much he has to work out with these.

OMG he rivals Spiderman in physical stats. No your right definitely surpasses him.

I told you to stop spamming the thread with the same scans. And when did I ever say Ult. Cap definitely surpasses Spiderman in strength? Lie much? Your incessant use of the weights is quite pathetic. Nothing there shows that is his max weight. Because it is a normal gym in a normal neighborhood, he can't possibly work out with more weight. And we know why he's there, despite SHIELD having a multimillion dollar facility. Because it means so much to him for sentimental value reasons.

I mean, here we have Wolverine curling 300 lbs. Are you honestly going to assert that Wolverine can't work out with more weight? Are you honestly asserting that Wolverine is limited to this much weight:
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/697/curls300pluspoundsma0.jpg

You'd have the Wolverine fans in an uproar if you ever took this exact argument to a Wolverine thread. Leave your garbage where it belongs. On the curb. Along with your illogical arguments. And stop spamming the same scans over and over again.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
[B you numbnuts. [/B]

And isn't namecalling/flaming against the rules.

And you get on to me for debating. You also reposted/linked past scans....LOL

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

I'll never forget how stupid you were, for thinking that 616 Cap one-shotted Korvac.

Wait I'm stupid for remembering a feat thats still as impressive as U.Cap for hurting Korvac.

LOL Just by bringing it up you lose.

Wolverine working out with that doesn't help prove he's above Spiderman either so I doesn't help anything that your trying to establish.