Odin vs Thanos (Rematch)

Started by OneDumbG061 pages

^ Straw-man. They are not up in perpetuity. But they were up when he fought Odin and Tyrant. They just weren't depicted visibly as a globe, etc. and the writer didn't bother wasting narration on it. That possibility has happened before in comics often. You don't deny that.

PG Champion and PG Thor wrecked Thanos' shields. How is it even a question whether DP Tyrant or Odin are powerful enough to do so? We already know DP Tyrant and Odin are powerful enough to wreck them. That's a given. We're only arguing whether in those two fights, Thanos actually made use of them. I'm relying on Thanos' character propensity to prove it's more likely that he did.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Doom never explicitly used force-fields that inured to every contour of his body down to his fingers until we were explicitly shown that. Neither did Iron Man. Just because Mark Bagley did and other's didn't, doesn't mean that every time it's not shown that way, Doom isn't using force-fields. It's obvious he's had his forcefields against several attacks where it's not shown as a globe (not shown as anything frankly) WAAAAY before Mark Bagley portrayed it inuring to his body in Mighty Avengers. It's simply a difference in artist portrayal.

Sometimes Wolverine is tall, other's he's short. Just because Leinil Yu portrays him as tall doesn't mean that every time he's not shown that way, he had his height amped for that comic. It's simpyl a difference in artist portrayal. A character moving his body around from attacks =/= shields being broken. This is a separate argument aside from Thanos' character propensity. Nevertheless, here is proof of that basic concept, Iron Patriot got sent flying despite his shields not being completely broken: In any case, we know Thanos was in for a fight against Odin. It's why he called Surfer to his side. We also know that Odin was far more powerful than PG Thor, who had just wrecked through Thanos' shields two issues prior. We also know that Thanos did not drop the durability enchancement of his armor. Ergo, since Thanos is not the type of personality who would countenance getting slapped around and he knew he was in for a fight, this is more likely an insatnce of an artist who didn't bother to draw shields and a writer not mentioning them, but they were still there.

That possibility has happened in comics. You obviously don't deny that. What you're denying here is that it is less likely. I posit to you, given Thanos' character propensity and his situation, that was not the case. If you wish to refute that and give me reasons why it is not likely, go ahead.

Still no proof eh? Still relying on other people and their shielding to act as proof.. sorry that doesn't cut it. Please provide ANY proof that Thanos always has his shields up like you claim and they don't have to be drawn. ANY PROOF ANYTIME IN MY FUTURE ODG. Or just spamming the thread with nonsense without proof. Under ODG theory

1. Thanos always has his shields up.. even though we've seen him call on them.. hmmm why call on them if they are always up.
a. What is worse.. if they are always up... then I guess it's your theory that The Thing, Gamora, The Hulk, Mantis.. simple strikes are all more powerful than Galactus or Omega LOL LOL. We saw those strikes get through his "shields" and strike Thanos.. Yet Galactus and Omega couldn't even breach his shields.. LOL
b. We've seen his shields drawn and if he is employing them and they aren't draw (Omega) he mentions them breaking or failing.. hmmm no mention of anything against Tyrant or Odin huh ODG? DO you see how easy you make this? So no shields drawn or shown or even implied.. no mention of them breaking for falling... yet that means he still employed them LOL

^ I'm not arguing that Thanos always has his shield up in perpetuity. I am arguing that his fights with DP Tyrant and Odin were instances of an artist not bothering to depict them and the writer not bothering to narrate about them. We both know that happens in comics. And we both know that DP Tyrant and Odin could wreck his shielding. After all, PG Champion and PG Thor did. We're only arguing whether Thanos refused to use his shields or used far weaker ones.

You can continue to straw-man me, but you haven't rebutted my argument that focuses on Thanos' character propensity.

And I've already proved false your suggestion that a character being moved around by a hit = his shields are totally broken. That's just comic book fact. Accordingly, Thanos being moved by attacks is not proof that his shields are off OR completely shattered. You can address my character propensity argument anytime you like.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Doom never explicitly used force-fields that inured to every contour of his body down to his fingers until we were explicitly shown that. Neither did Iron Man. Just because Mark Bagley did and other's didn't, doesn't mean that every time it's not shown that way, Doom isn't using force-fields. It's obvious he's had his forcefields against several attacks where it's not shown as a globe (not shown as anything frankly) WAAAAY before Mark Bagley portrayed it inuring to his body in Mighty Avengers. It's simply a difference in artist portrayal.

Sometimes Wolverine is tall, other's he's short. Just because Leinil Yu portrays him as tall doesn't mean that every time he's not shown that way, he had his height amped for that comic. It's simpyl a difference in artist portrayal. A character moving his body around from attacks =/= shields being broken. This is a separate argument aside from Thanos' character propensity. Nevertheless, here is proof of that basic concept, Iron Patriot got sent flying despite his shields not being completely broken: In any case, we know Thanos was in for a fight against Odin. It's why he called Surfer to his side. We also know that Odin was far more powerful than PG Thor, who had just wrecked through Thanos' shields two issues prior. We also know that Thanos did not drop the durability enchancement of his armor. Ergo, since Thanos is not the type of personality who would countenance getting slapped around and he knew he was in for a fight, this is more likely an insatnce of an artist who didn't bother to draw shields and a writer not mentioning them, but they were still there.

That possibility has happened in comics. You obviously don't deny that. What you're denying here is that it is less likely. I posit to you, given Thanos' character propensity and his situation, that was not the case. If you wish to refute that and give me reasons why it is not likely, go ahead.

If that is the case of his shields would have been broken, then surely there is a panel in which his shields are broken/breached as every time they have been it has been shown via illustration/statements.

Thanos shields are not the same as Iron patroits so trying to use that as example doesnt work.

Every artist/writer who has worked on Thanos who has had him use shields has either shown/indicated that he has/had used shields, and seeing as Starlin wrote this story and know how Thanos works with the use of shields, so why wouldnt he tell the artist he wants Thanos using shields when the artist is following Starlin lead/intstructions.

All of this is speculation, but there is far more to support that he didnt use shields(on panel proof and satements) than that he did as he has never used shields like that(around his body) before.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Straw-man. They are not up in perpetuity. But they were up when he fought Odin and Tyrant. They just weren't depicted visibly as a globe, etc. and the writer didn't bother wasting narration on it. That possibility has happened before in comics often. You don't deny that.

PG Champion and PG Thor wrecked Thanos' shields. How is it even a question whether DP Tyrant or Odin are powerful enough to do so? We already know DP Tyrant and Odin are powerful enough to wreck them. That's a given. We're only arguing whether in those two fights, Thanos actually made use of them. I'm relying on Thanos' character propensity to prove it's more likely that he did.

Difference is.. when they wrecked them.. THEY WERE DRAWN YOu IDIOT. Against Champion they were even referenced to be failing.. like against Omega and Galactus... UNLIKE Odin and Tyrant. Why did you just post this so you could look like a bigger tool. You used examples that don't support your theory.

I already destroyed your theory that they are always up.. you have claimed this.. I tooled that before.. and now you've changed it to.. they aren't always up. If you question you did say they wree always up I'll find the post and show you to be a liar. You've changed it now to.. they aren't up always.. just during all his fights... However, that little concession means they aren't always up.. and since they weren't drawn or implied in these fights.. most likely they weren't up.

What is worse.. is he has also claimed that they are always the same shielding not different variety... That argument is tooled simply by the Omega fight where he SPECIFICALLY says he's glad he brought enough shields or he wouldn't have survived. That canon fight make it clear he can bring higher shielding when need be and they aren't always the same.

Any more bashing is going to get the thread closed and warnings handed out.

agreed.

thanos has varying degrees of shields and some have bn shown to be backed by his ship from time to time.

why is some one even arguing that his shields are always active even when not drawn or mention?

i think that is wishful thinking that would mean that guys like thor, thing and gamora have broken through an invisible shield designed to hold back 100+ hits regularly. 😬

having said that i can see thanos giving odin a good fight only due to his shields but not win regularly. thanos is just stubborn he might pull one or two wins tops. maybe a third if Odin underestimates thanos.

Originally posted by Nihilist
If that is the case of his shields would have been broken, then surely there is a panel in which his shields are broken/breached as every time they have been it has been shown via illustration/statements.
Doom's shields have been broken and they're not portrayed that way via illustration/statement. But we know it happened.
Originally posted by Nihilist
Thanos shields are not the same as Iron patroits so trying to use that as example doesnt work.
You're trying to equate a character, when I'm telling you comic book fact. Comic artists portray forcefields differently. Many don't even bother portraying them at all. The only time they were portrayed as explicitly inuring to Iron Man and Doom's body was in Mighty Avengers. You can't one artist's drawing style to assert that Iron Man and Doom never had such a force-field before.
Originally posted by Nihilist
Every artist/writer who has worked on Thanos who has had him use shields has either shown/indicated that he has/had used shields, and seeing as Starlin wrote this story and know how Thanos works with the use of shields, so why wouldnt he tell the artist he wants Thanos using shields when the artist is following Starlin lead/intstructions.

All of this is speculation, but there is far more to support that he didnt use shields(on panel proof and satements) than that he did as he has never used shields like that(around his body) before.

Starlin didn't show Thanos' shields or mentioned them when he got sucked into a blackhole and nearly killed. That's Starlin's own choice.

There is nothing to support that he refused to use his shields. It completely goes against his character and the situation he was in.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Difference is.. when they wrecked them.. THEY WERE DRAWN YOu IDIOT. Against Champion they were even referenced to be failing.. like against Omega and Galactus... UNLIKE Odin and Tyrant. Why did you just post this so you could look like a bigger tool. You used examples that don't support your theory.

I already destroyed your theory that they are always up.. you have claimed this.. I tooled that before.. and now you've changed it to.. they aren't always up. If you question you did say they wree always up I'll find the post and show you to be a liar. You've changed it now to.. they aren't up always.. just during all his fights... However, that little concession means they aren't always up.. and since they weren't drawn or implied in these fights.. most likely they weren't up.

What is worse.. is he has also claimed that they are always the same shielding not different variety... That argument is tooled simply by the Omega fight where he SPECIFICALLY says he's glad he brought enough shields or he wouldn't have survived. That canon fight make it clear he can bring higher shielding when need be and they aren't always the same.

I mentioned that scene to banish any suggestion that DP Tyrant or Odin aren't powerful enough to wreck Thanos' shields. They obviously are, since PG Champion and PG Thor wrecked them.

I have not posited here that Thanos' shields are up in perpetuity. It's not like he keeps them up when he sits on the toilet bowl and relieves himself and craps all over himself. He can turn them off. I'm arguing (and I continue to point this out), that he wouldn't have turned them off against DP Tyrant and Odin. He used Silver Surfer's aid, he used experimental weaponry, he used his body armor durability enhancement, he relied on the orb amp... why would he turn off his shields? Answer: he likely didn't. They just weren't portrayed by the artist or mentioned by the writer. That has happened.

http://img94.imageshack.us/f/galactus48na.jpg/

This is force field. Theres nothing in Thanos vs Odin fight to suggest that he used it.

Originally posted by Nihilist

Every artist/writer who has worked on Thanos who has had him use shields has either shown/indicated that he has/had used shields, and seeing as Starlin wrote this story and know how Thanos works with the use of shields, so why wouldnt he tell the artist he wants Thanos using shields when the artist is following Starlin lead/intstructions.

All of this is speculation, but there is far more to support that he didnt use shields(on panel proof and satements) than that he did as he has never used shields like that(around his body) before.

👆

Originally posted by The Nuul
http://img94.imageshack.us/f/galactus48na.jpg/

This is force field. Theres nothing in Thanos vs Odin fight to suggest that he used it.

Thre's similarly nothing to suggest in the second scan that Doom had his force-field on when he got violently attacked by Galactus:
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
[b]V. FORCE-FIELDS

His force-fields allow him to survive his first physical encounter with the Beyonder's power, which throws him and Galactus back to Battleworld's surface. Doom wakes up first, from Secret Wars #1:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Stats/DoomForcefields04SW1.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Stats/DoomForcefields05SW1.jpg

Doom manages to survive being thrown from Galactus' Worldship by Galactus personally, from Secret Wars #7:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Stats/DoomForcefields06SW7.jpg [/B]

Nothing that is... except the common sense that Doom wouldn't be so careless as to leave his force-field off as he knew he was in a dangerous situation (he was attacked by drones), despite it not being shown. Would you really argue that the second set of scans is a pure armor durability feat? Seriously?

Its stated on panel that he has his FF on during that mission, he wouldnt be that dumb to turn it off. In the Thanos vs Odin, not once did they ever explain that his FF is on. Thats different.

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/66/energy8qa2.jpg
here he uses a shield against surfer.

uses it to stop a hammer toss from thor.
http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/9413/energy18bb3.jpg

again keeps a blast of the omega at bay.
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/5219/energy25iz7.jpg

plus when he used them against blood and thunder thor.

Thanos also used them in his final fight with Drax when he was killed by him..

i think it is save to say that more often when his shields are active they are represented and should only be viewed as being on when specifically shown or stated to be.

can we get a mod to stop this argument and move on since its bn already proven and shown repeatedly.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Doom's shields have been broken and they're not portrayed that way via illustration/statement. But we know it happened.
But Thanos always have been shown that way when they are breached or even attacked.
You're trying to equate a character, when I'm telling you comic book fact. Comic artists portray forcefields differently. Many don't even bother portraying them at all. The only time they were portrayed as explicitly inuring to Iron Man and Doom's body was in Mighty Avengers. You can't one artist's drawing style to assert that Iron Man and Doom never had such a force-field before.
Yet all of his shileds have been shown to be circular by every artist who has ever drawn them, and the fact Starlin will have seen the art showing him not using/using shields and would have added the text saying so, like it has in all the other Thanos stories Starlin has wrote in which Thanos has used them(the text is added after the art btw)
Starlin didn't show Thanos' shields or mentioned them when he got sucked into a blackhole and nearly killed. That's Starlin's own choice.
Thats because he never used shields then, its not mentioned/implied at all iirc.

There is nothing to support that he refused to use his shields. It completely goes against his character and the situation he was in.
No it doesnt as i have already stated his has faced guys as powerful as Champion,Thor and Odin and not used them, its funny you say its down to a writer/artists choice how/when to say if he using shields, yet the writer/artist all of a sudden doesnt have the choice to change his character for the sake of the story.

^ So the writer changed the story to make Thanos fight without his shields, but with all-out attacks, allies like the Surfer, experimental weaponry, an outside amp=Tyrant's orb, his body armor... but not his shields?

You don't see that exception as particularly conspicuous and unexplained? We just figure out some reason he turned them off or left them off? Why did he turn them off or leave them off when he got sucked into the black hole and mauled?

Originally posted by The Nuul
Its stated on panel that he has his FF on during that mission, he wouldnt be that dumb to turn it off. In Thanos vs Odin, not once did they ever explain that his FF is on. Thats different.
What? Look at the second set of scans I posted. No illustration. Never stated it was on when he got wtfpwned by Galactus. I don't see where it was stated that his forcefield was on.

Its the same mission correct?

Originally posted by King Castle
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/66/energy8qa2.jpg
here he uses a shield against surfer.

uses it to stop a hammer toss from thor.
http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/9413/energy18bb3.jpg

again keeps a blast of the omega at bay.
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/5219/energy25iz7.jpg

plus when he used them against blood and thunder thor.

Thanos also used them in his final fight with Drax when he was killed by him..

i think it is save to say that more often when his shields are active they are represented and should only be viewed as being on when specifically shown or stated to be.

can we get a mod to stop this argument and move on since its bn already proven and shown repeatedly.

The Thor hammer stop is TK imo, as the shape of the "shield" is inverted and all his shields are circular(outward) and the hammer should of bounced off not just stopped dead.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Its the same mission correct?
I don't understand your question. But your initial comment literally mirrored my argument: "he wouldn't be that dumb to turn them off."

In the first two scans, Doom is following G and enters his ship. The last scan, it's part of that same mission.

No he's saying during Doom's mission he was stated to be using them throughout it. No such mention was even used in regards to Thanos.

Still no proof ODG... still clinging to a desperate hope that you won't look as bad?