Originally posted by Grand_Moff_GavThe thing I really like about Kaine is he can navigate these issues with such ease; he's pro-life, but he doesn't go on a fundamentalist bender and try to outlaw abortion. He doesn't let his faith get in the way of his public duty.
well theres the whole abortion thing...
On the same token, he opposes the death penalty, but he doesn't overturn death sentences in Virginia for the simple reason that they're the law.
Originally posted by Strangelove
The thing I really like about Kaine is he can navigate these issues with such ease; he's pro-life, but he doesn't go on a fundamentalist bender and try to outlaw abortion. He doesn't let his faith get in the way of his public duty.On the same token, he opposes the death penalty, but he doesn't overturn death sentences in Virginia for the simple reason that they're the law.
That might be appealing to you but...well: "[T]he choice of a pro-abortion Catholic running mate would amount to scratching at a deep and festering wound in the American Catholic Church," and wel...he's pro-abortion...
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_GavWhat/Who exactly are you quoting?
That might be appealing to you but...well: "[T]he choice of a pro-abortion Catholic running mate would amount to scratching at a deep and festering wound in the American Catholic Church," and wel...he's pro-abortion...
He's absolutely not "pro-abortion". I would go so far as to say there isn't anyone who's "pro-abortion". It's a bullshit term. Please don't use it again.
And being pro-life and being pro-choice are not mutually exclusive.
Originally posted by Strangelove
What/Who exactly are you quoting?He's absolutely not "pro-abortion". I would go so far as to say there isn't anyone who's "pro-abortion". It's a bullshit term. Please don't use it again.
And being pro-life and being pro-choice are not mutually exclusive.
Brian Burch, President of Fidelis
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/catholics-fear-obama-considering-pro-abortion/story.aspx?guid={64B99B6E-1228-4104-98CD-14F6501965EC}&dist=hppr
He also says
Most recently, Virginia Governor Tim Kaine has been discussed as a good fit for Obama given his Catholic faith and purported "pro-life" views.
"Tim Kaine deserves some credit for supporting a ban on partial birth abortion, but he has also made clear that he is totally committed to protecting the right to kill unborn children, in direct opposition to his Church," said Burch
Originally posted by StrangeloveSo, he has no balls?
The thing I really like about Kaine is he can navigate these issues with such ease; he's pro-life, but he doesn't go on a fundamentalist bender and try to outlaw abortion. He doesn't let his faith get in the way of his public duty.On the same token, he opposes the death penalty, but he doesn't overturn death sentences in Virginia for the simple reason that they're the law.
The part where you said "He's not even Catholic" is what's ridiculous. Not everyone who professes an affiliation to a certain religion has to follow every doctrine to a T.
Being pro-choice and Catholic are not mutually exclusive. In fact, it's been proven, time and time again, that pro-choice policies reduce the number of abortions. So you could even say that being pro-choice and Catholicism mesh quite nicely.
Originally posted by Strangelove
The part where you said "He's not even Catholic" is what's ridiculous. Not everyone who professes an affiliation to a certain religion has to follow every doctrine to a T.
The Pope would disagree with you...and ultimately its up to him. (FYI to be a Catholic you MUST follow Church Doctrine- its Canon Law)
Originally posted by Strangelove
Being pro-choice and Catholic are not mutually exclusive. In fact, it's been proven, time and time again, that pro-choice policies reduce the number of abortions. So you could even say that being pro-choice and Catholicism mesh quite nicely.
No, I have no objection to the whole thing I was just inquiring as to how it affected Kaine's chances as being a VP.
Because being a member of a Church isn't about the little things, like whether you eat meat on Fridays during Lent or attending Church on the Holy Days of Obligation; it's about the big concepts. Love, forgiveness, salvation, etc.
There's a quote from 1984 that stick out in my mind, and I'm probably paraphrasing, but it's "As long as you follow all the little rules, you can break the big ones." And it's very possible that there are "Catholics" who betray the core concepts of Catholicism but still be claim to be Catholic by following the minutia of the Doctrine.
Faith and God are not found in the details.
Originally posted by Strangelove
Because being a member of a Church isn't about the little things, like whether you eat meat on Fridays during Lent or attending Church on the Holy Days of Obligation; it's about the big concepts. Love, forgiveness, salvation, etc.There's a quote from 1984 that stick out in my mind, and I'm probably paraphrasing, but it's "As long as you follow all the little rules, you can break the big ones." And it's very possible that there are "Catholics" who betray the core concepts of Catholicism but still be claim to be Catholic by following the minutia of the Doctrine.
Faith and God are not found in the details.
We should probably not discuss this in this thread as its a bit off topic so I will speak about it one last time.
According to the Catholic Church for someone to be considered in Communion with the Church there are certain fundamental teachings they cannot disagree with. One of those is that abortion is murder and murder is forbidden. So, someone can claim to be Catholic and regard themselves as Catholic but that is irrelevant if the Church has decided they are not.
The club president gets to decide who is in the club.
ANYWAY
back on topic I'll ask my question again, do you see choosing a pro-choice Catholic as a VP candidate a big issue which could effect the election result?
Would it affect it? I could certainly see that possibility. But if there is any effect, I believe it would be a positive one. The Democratic Party is that of inclusion.
And Kaine is not a "pro-choice Catholic".
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_GavIt seems that you didn't really address what I said at all.
According to the Catholic Church for someone to be considered in Communion with the Church there are certain fundamental teachings they cannot disagree with. One of those is that abortion is murder and murder is forbidden. So, someone can claim to be Catholic and regard themselves as Catholic but that is irrelevant if the Church has decided they are not.
But I'd point out that there is literally no way for anyone in authority in the Catholic Church to know who does or who does not follow the doctrine.
Originally posted by Strangelove
Would it affect it? I could certainly see that possibility.
Possibility? Are you shitting me? A pro-choice Catholic would definitely mix-up the ticket. Then again, Obama is so much young(er) and such a mystery anyways, that pretty much any running mate would seem to balance out the ticket.