Originally posted by Badabing
durcry2 I think a lot of that stuff is just hyperbole. I don't have one instance where Supes blitzed >C. I also can't see Surfer creating K Nite since it's from another universe or red sun radiation since that isn't what I personally consider common knowledge. Red sun radiation is debatable though.God Blast, God Wave, force bubble, IM Punch, etc may be borderline imo.
Cosmic Awareness
Originally posted by quanchi112
WW Hulk was already angry enough. For the purposes of this fight both are at the best of their abilities so Hulk is at earth stomping mode. Supes is screwed. Hulk is stronger than Supes and his healing ability is almost instantaneous. Hulk handled the Sentry and that was before he was at his strongest.What does being smarter than someone help you in a brawl? Kalibak is a dumb as a rock and he and Mantis fighting like fools managed to knock Superman for a loop. Supes really had problems with Doomsday and he couldnt even utter a sentence.
Smarts has a lot to do with how you fight, and smart fighters fight more efficiently and make use of every advantage. Superman (when push comes to shove) is a smart fighter. He's used those smarts against Doomsday too he psyched him out and sowed doubt into DD's mind before putting him down.
Originally posted by AllanklesDoomsday the first couple of times he fought him just punched and tried to defeat him. Doomsday was dumb as a rock and yet Superman still struggled and barely put him down in dos which he himself fell as well. Then in hunter and prey he needed a motherbox and waverider to beat this dumb rock.
Smarts has a lot to do with how you fight, and smart fighters fight more efficiently and make use of every advantage. Superman (when push comes to shove) is a smart fighter. He's used those smarts against Doomsday too he psyched him out and sowed doubt into DD's mind before putting him down.
Most fights in comics are guys punching each other. Just like in real life the tougher guy wins not always the smarter guy.
Originally posted by horrorwolf
I agree 100%. Im not taking anything from Superman's wins. What my point was - was to indicate what sort of assaults Savage Hulk has endured. None of which ever came close to being a threat in any way due to a physical assualt.Superman however, has been beaten down and killed before, Hulk hasn't....and not anywhere close. And there's not a single person on that list Hulk couldn't surpass in Strength.
superman was killed 1. to boost sales, and 2. by a being genetically bred to hate and destroy all kryptonians.
and that doesn't even come into it, given how much more powerful he is now...
he could surpass mageddon? or imperiex?
Originally posted by quanchi112
Did Superman ever beat Black Adam?Has he ever defeated Hal Jordan?
What about Imperiex exactly are you bringing up for Superman?
he fought black adam just before the crisis.
he fought john stewart and punched through his constructs withoout much effort.
what about imperiex? take a bloody guess. take two if it helps.
Originally posted by carver9
Hulk 8/10, if konvikt, despero, and titus can one shot superman then WWH should be able to do it much easier.
read trinity 4. one shot indeed...
Originally posted by quanchi112
Sentry is greater than Superman imo.
pr1983
Originally posted by quanchi112
Iron Man knew what kinds of weapons would take out the Hulk and suppress his powers i feel the satellite was another example of this. It was a plot device either way.
stark didn't inject hulk with the SPIN tech.
Originally posted by darthgooberHowever it is certainly in character for him to move and attack at speeds that even speedy w/ fast reaction characters are sometimes unable to react to, let alone much slower moving ones. An example of him fighting Mongul, and swatting aside every blow and seemingly teleporting around him and bashing him comes to mind. Mongul unable to really act or land a blow as Superman toys with him.
Cool. And can we agree that if he's NEVER blitzed at lightspeed in combat that it would highly "Out of Character" for him to do so even if he does have the ability to blitz at FTL speeds?
Originally posted by RaoulHe didnt defeat Black Adam is my point. John Stewart is no Hal Jordan imo. Has Superman ever defeated Hal Jordan? My point is that Superman isnt the toughest top tier out there in dc. He hasnt shown he is physically the toughest either.
superman was killed 1. to boost sales, and 2. by a being genetically bred to hate and destroy all kryptonians.and that doesn't even come into it, given how much more powerful he is now...
he could surpass mageddon? or imperiex?
he fought black adam just before the crisis.
he fought john stewart and punched through his constructs withoout much effort.
what about imperiex? take a bloody guess. take two if it helps.
read trinity 4. one shot indeed...
pr1983
stark didn't inject hulk with the SPIN tech.
The lasers that Hulk let hit him at the end of the story were a plot device.
If by their best we mean WWH at the end of the story when he was shaking the eastern seaboard then WWH wins it. At this point he is physically far superior to superman both strength and durability wise. His enrgy would also prevent a speedblitz as it was destroying the whole of Newyork and coming out uncontrollably so superman would be unable to get close to him without being hit due to its immensely wide range. With supermans best option of attack disabled, the hulk will be able to destroy him physically as he will have the HUGE advantage.
Originally posted by ultimatethor
If by their best we mean WWH at the end of the story when he was shaking the eastern seaboard then WWH wins it. At this point he is physically far superior to superman both strength and durability wise. His enrgy would also prevent a speedblitz as it was destroying the whole of Newyork and coming out uncontrollably so superman would be unable to get close to him without being hit due to its immensely wide range. With supermans best option of attack disabled, the hulk will be able to destroy him physically as he will have the HUGE advantage.
At his best, Superman has moved a solar system. 😐 He moves planets. He moves the gears of Mageddon. He fights skyfathers.
Nothing Hulk has done in his entire career compares to Superman at his best.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
At his best, Superman has moved a solar system. 😐 He moves planets. He moves the gears of Mageddon. He fights skyfathers.Nothing Hulk has done in his entire career compares to Superman at his best.
Correct, Superman probably has the largest powerset in all of comics for a hero of his level. His ability to utilize his flight to generate momentum is probably the best in comics. However all of his abilities that he typically fights with wouldn't stop the WWH (would piss him off though bigtime). So his hand to hand fighting strength and ability is what comes into play here....not shifting solar systems around.
We are measuring pure physical combat strength as it applies to battle and this is exactlywhere Hulks feats are in a different class when it comes to both striking, lifting, crushing, and other forms of unassisted raw physical assault damage. He surpasses anything Superman has done without utilizing flight to move objects that his small frame is incapable of.
Can Hulk move a solar system? No...nor would Hulk (or his writers) have any interest to.
Hulk is a brawler and arguably the best at it. In a physical confrontation WWH takes it do to his inexhaustable and limitless gamma fed endurance, strength, and healing.
Originally posted by horrorwolf\
Correct, Superman probably has the largest powerset in all of comics for a hero of his level. His ability to utilize his flight to generate momentum is probably the best in comics.However we are measuring pure physical combat strength as it applies to battle and this is exactlywhere Hulks feats are in a different class when it comes to both striking, lifting, crushing, and other forms of unassisted raw physical assault damage. He surpasses anything Superman has done without utilizing flight to move objects that his small frame is incapable of.
Can Hulk move a solar system? No...nor would Hulk (or his writers) have any interest to.
Hulk is a brawler and arguably the best at it. In a physical confrontation WWH takes it do to his inexhaustable and limitless gamma fed endurance, strength, and healing.
Originally posted by fangirl101
\
SO when he moved the wheels of mageddon he was flying? Right. Nuff said.
1. If flight or mid-air levitation was involved, it was another flight assisted feat...and not a pure feat of raw, unnassisted physical strength.
2.The Physical strength that Superman lacks due to his size, he utilizes his ability to defy gravity to make up for. You see this over and over again.
3. The Strength needed to match and EXCEED that feat is absolutely nothing Hulk is not capable of with leverage of some sort on his worst day, as he can't defy gravity via flight.
Originally posted by horrorwolf
1. If flight or mid-air levitation was involved, it was another flight assisted feat...and not a pure feat of raw, unnassisted physical strength.2. Absolutely nothing Hulk couldn't do with leverage as he can't fly. Meaning the Physical Strength requried to do so could be easily matched and exceeded by Hulk.
Originally posted by fangirl101
So you argue against a charcter that you dont' know too much about. Good to know. He moved the wheels of mageddon with pure physical strength. No flight involved.
😆 (Just as I thought) wow, You're really reaching...
1. Please post when I said Superman used flight to stop the wheels. I purposely didn't mention whether or not Superman used flight to see exactly where you were headed. Hilarious and desperate.
2. My point remains - Hulk has limitless dynamic inexhaustable Strength. Point being - It remains a fact that Hulk is capable of beyond the raw power needed to replicate this feat, he just doesn't fly....and therefore can't (nor needs to) utilize flight to make his job easier.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
At his best, Superman has moved a solar system. 😐 He moves planets. He moves the gears of Mageddon. He fights skyfathers.Nothing Hulk has done in his entire career compares to Superman at his best.
😕
What issue did a non-PC, regular Superman move any solar systems or planets again?
Ok we have a whole bunch of people saying Superman gets beat down do you think its because he's weak or because we as readers want to actually see fights that don't end as soon as the a shield is shown. Ok in a comic book the fight probably wouldn't be one sides but going by forum rules the hulk
lasts less then a minute against a no holding back superman my iPod is lame do any mistakes ignore them.
Originally posted by quanchi112
He didnt defeat Black Adam is my point.
so just because he hasn't means he can't, right? ermm
John Stewart is no Hal Jordan imo.
he's arguably top three in the corps, and a very accomplished GL...
Has Superman ever defeated Hal Jordan?
when have the fought?
My point is that Superman isnt the toughest top tier out there in dc. He hasnt shown he is physically the toughest either.
i never said he was...
Originally posted by Scoobless
True, Hardball stole it before it could be used.
excellent comic, the initiative...
Originally posted by iceman24567
Ok we have a whole bunch of people saying Superman gets beat down do you think its because he's weak or because we as readers want to actually see fights that don't end as soon as the a shield is shown. Ok in a comic book the fight probably wouldn't be one sides but going by forum rules the hulk
lasts less then a minute against a no holding back superman my iPod is lame do any mistakes ignore them.
I don't think anyone thinks Superman is weak. He is one of the most popular and powerful superheroes in existance.
Does he have what it takes to take out WWH? IMO no. WWH has been shown to take assaults on par with Superman's and survive them easily time and time again. You can't take out Hulk via physical means other than BFR.
The issue is with WWH himself. How exactly does Superman intend to defeat him in combat? The type of defeat that has happened to Superman on many occasions but has never happened in Hulk's case.
Also this is not a blood-lusted fight as I understand, so the characters start the fight with intents to subdue/beat each other in submission for a win, not necessarily in an attempt to kill. This sort of fight favors WWH, in that they both are likeliest to eventually go toe to toe, and WWH >>>> Superman in endurance and Strength indefinitely, and at increasing rates for as the fight goes on.
The longer Superman continues.. the more severe the assault he recieves becomes. Superman has been proven capable of getting beat-downs, Hulk hasn't ever.
...and WWH is capable is going beyond whatever levels of physical assault levels it takes to do so.