Originally posted by Nataku8188
1) The difference between an Adamantium bullet and something in Magneto's control is completely different. If Magneto forces the metal into Hulk's Kidneys, lungs, what have you, he can't just "expel" them. While Hulk's body may be working to "expel" the object, Magneto will continue to drive it into him. Can we get some scans of the "Expelling" incident please? They way it is being conveyed it sounds as if everything is doing exactly what I said, which is his body is pushing the item back out through the skin by expanding and/or the muscles pushing it out. In this case, Magneto is forcing shards, filaments, liquified metals, etc. into Hulk, while still battering him with metals. While I am willing to accept the idea of Hulk's body expelling the metals (Which I've acknowledged as completely possible already, just highly unprobable) I need to see an example of the context of the expelling.2) The whole point of a debate on these forums is to decide, using the best logic possible, who would win. As for your example using the Stranger, I believe you are taking it out of context, and need to see the scan before I believe what you are saying. As for changing direction in air, I've already acknowledged Hulk's ability to semi-fly by swinging his arms, etc. He's strong enough to alter his path mid-air. However, Magneto can launch him so quickly and so easily that there is no way he'd be able to resist the movement.
3) Thank god you are smart enough to understand the logic. I know the fish and hook example was crude, but I'm currently in Kuwait and don't have an excess of time or resources at my hands to help me. Now, as for Hulk resisting being lifted, I still need scans to believe that it's not being taken out of context. Logically, the Hulk's weight and whatever force he can generate against Magneto are all that Magneto has to beat. As for the metal being torn out of Hulk, Once he has it inside Hulk, he can change it's shape and form, for example, impaling Hulk with a long thing filament, then flattening it out to a disk. Remember, the larger the surface the less force is applied per square inch, thus something with 100x more surface area will apply 100x less force per point. Bad, bad math, but you get the idea. To get through Hulk's hide, it'll take a sharp point with a lot of force, a flat plate isn't being forced into Hulk.
4) I agree.
As for Hulk breaking Magneto's force field, I have no doubt after enough time he could, but seriously, that would take a ridiculously long time. Magneto's shields are ridiculously strong. Even if Magneto began to tire, he could simply create distance and regain his composure before returning to fight again. Barring a mistake on his part, Magneto will not lose this fight.
I look forward to continuing this debate.
Phantom Zone, shut up. You're an idiot.
lol at the kuwait thing. Im not trying to be insultive but its funny cuz kuwait is probably better off than Nigeria anyways. Now going back to the topic, id post the scans of the feats i mentioned but i have them on my laptop and not on the computer im currently using though i hope to be able to post them soon.
Now for the first part, for magneto to be able to force metal into hulks body he would essentially have to overcome the hulks inital physical resistance to injury, and then the hulks healing factor as it tries to force the metal out of his body. Indeed magneto continuously trying to force an object into the hulk will make it more difficult for the hulks Hf to remove objects from his body but magneto will eventually be overcome by the hulks increasing anger which will lead to large increases in his HF level and resistance to physical injury throughout the fight. Also all of this is based on the premise that magneto CAN actually force metal into the hulks body through his skin. Considering that it is likely there will be no adamntium anywhere in the vicinity magneto is going to be hardpressed to evn pentrate the hulks skin. Now I have taken into consideration the fact magneto does not have to force the metal in but can opt to send it in through the different openings such as the ears, nose etc. Howvever this method though it solves the problem of forcing it in does NOT give him an instant victory. First of all on the inside the hulk has been described as being just as strong as he is on the outside. Therefore evn if magneto gets the metal inside he will have a problem causing substantial dmage which can take the hulk out. Lets not forget that all this time the hulk will be getting more durable and his HF will be becoming more powerful, and magnetos task would be continously getting harder.
Nextly, yes we are here to debate using the best logic possible but the supreme evidence in a debate about comics is ON PANEL EVIDENCE. If it happens normally during comics then we cannot simply negate it using arguments like that should not be possible. Heck most of the strength feats perfromed by guys like hulk and supes are impossible not because they should not have the strength to do them but because of the physical laws that exist in the world which prevent people from doing such things no matter how strong they are e.g( hulk holding a planet together). And for the hulk resisting being lifted, Grey hulk resisted marvel girls telekinesis. Now that may be weak compared to mags but it is simply an example of a MUCH WEAKER HULK resisting telekinesis. Now to the stranger example, The stranger stated that rays that engulfed the hulk could CHANGE the orbit of a planet. Keyword there is change. This shows that the stranger used those rays to control movement of foreign objects/beings. Now the hulk had just jumped right at the stranger intending to smash him and it is then that the stranger used this power of his to suspend hulk in mid air. The hulks movemnts is temporarily controlled but he then says nothing stops the hulk and proceeds to break free of the strangers grip. This is an example of the hulk stopping his body from being controlled or manipulated by an extreemly powerful( FAR more powerful than magneto) being that is the stranger.
Now as for the thing of magneto expanding the metal when it is inside the hulk, as i said before the hulk insides are as strong as his outsides and will continue to get stronger throughout the fight. For mags to be able to expand it or do whatever he wants with it, he would still face the problem of the hulks resistance and healing factor. While i admit that the hulks internal organs may not be as hard as his skin, Im not sure of magnetos proficiency in human biology. This is to say that it mags gets metal in through the ear does he know the pathway to the heart. Further does he know the pathway that would avoid the hulks hard tissue. Simply expanding it wont work because of the internal durability hulks insides as the metal would definitely be met with resistance. Also though it would still damage some parts of the hulk if magneto simply expands the metal he would be faced with hte hulks rapidly increasing H factor which would be healing the dmaged part and also working to remove the metal from the hulks body. While mags would be able to do more damage if he tried sharpening the object and using it to slash away at the hulk from the inside, he would essentially be faced with the same problem.
Then for the part of the hulk breaking magnetos shields, i doubt it will take as long as you say. If we go by hulks punching history especially it might not take long at all. What forces has magneto used his shields to withstand that are comparable to repeated all out hits from hulk? A thor hammer shot just wont cut it. I know magneto has withstood nukes with his shields but the hulk himself has easily destroyed bunkers and barriers capable of withstanding nukes of several thousand megatons.
And also considering this is a forum fight the battlefield will have a defined range. The hulks advantage here is that he can take whatever mags can throw at him but when mags begins to tire the hulk can finish him off quickly
She-HUlk and Thor at once, fail, "No mere physical force can penetrate my magnetic fields."
http://img198.imageshack.us/my.php?image=magfiresstonesshield7jj.jpg
How the hell do you resist a platform raising you into the air?
Magneto could eject Banner into the air before he knew what the hell is going on. Do people realize how it easy it is to "sneak" lift someone when you create forcefields at will? Magneto could throw a couple of boulders at him and suddenly launch him into space.
Originally posted by Juntai
She-HUlk and Thor at once, fail, "[b]No mere physical force can penetrate my magnetic fields."
http://img198.imageshack.us/my.php?image=magfiresstonesshield7jj.jpg [/B]
That scan really accounts for nothing. Loads of charcters have called there forcefields unbreakable and what not. Magnetos claims can hardly be used as proof. Also a hammer shot and a punch from she hulk are not equvalent to the angriest version of hulk repeatedly punching magnetos forcefields
Originally posted by ultimatethor
That scan really accounts for nothing. Loads of charcters have called there forcefields unbreakable and what not. Magnetos claims can hardly be used as proof. Also a hammer shot and a punch from she hulk are not equvalent to the angriest version of hulk repeatedly punching magnetos forcefields
You need to provide proof of physical force breaking it, rather than the other way.
Originally posted by Juntai
It's resisted that, Captain Universe Spiderman, Pheonix, Galactus, etc. That was just one of many instances physical force has proven all but futile. And even referenced as being unbreakable by such means completely.You need to provide proof of physical force breaking it, rather than the other way.
The list is impressive but it does not evn come close to proving that magnetos shields are unbreakable. If it had been an all out hit by galactus i would have probably considered it but i certainly beleive it was not. The hulk has taken a hit from galactus without evn being koed so unless it can be proven that the Big G really un loaded on the shield then i still would not put his shield as something hulk cant break through. In order to prove hulk cant break through it some proof needs to be provided of some physical force that is superior to repeated pummeling from WWH being unable to break the shield.
So Hulk's brain is indestructable now? I'd love to see an example of that. And Magneto has a upper tier IQ, to say he cant find his way from the ear cannal to the brain is kind of insulting, especially since Im pretty sure he worked with Xavier at a hospital back in the day.
Either way, whats to stop him from slowing the Hulk's bloodflow and knocking him out? Does the gamma radiation cancel out the metals his body naturally produces?
Originally posted by ultimatethorIf you're suggesting Hulk shatters the shield, you're the one that needs toprovide the proof. Near as I can tell, no physical force has broken it at all. Certainly Magneto doesn't run into a being PHYSICALLY stronger than World War Hulk every over issue, so what you're suggesting is a complete impossibility, however a two second search on a character I'm barely familiar wish provided two very strong characters beating in futility against it, and it outright stating MERE PHYSICAL FORCE is not enough to break down his shield.
The list is impressive but it does not evn come close to proving that magnetos shields are unbreakable. If it had been an all out hit by galactus i would have probably considered it but i certainly beleive it was not. The hulk has taken a hit from galactus without evn being koed so unless it can be proven that the Big G really un loaded on the shield then i still would not put his shield as something hulk cant break through. In order to prove hulk cant break through it some proof needs to be provided of some physical force that is superior to repeated pummeling from WWH being unable to break the shield.
Imo, the truth is, I'm not sure how Magneto deals with Hulk while the shield is up, and eventually he would get tired. And Hulk could get him. Maybe bend the light around his eyes to make him blind might buy him some time, but that seems all I can think of, save creating a magnetic field and using it for some straight up battlefield removal.
Originally posted by Juntai
It's resisted that, Captain Universe Spiderman, Pheonix, Galactus, etc. That was just one of many instances physical force has proven all but futile. And even referenced as being unbreakable by such means completely.You need to provide proof of physical force breaking it, rather than the other way.
A weaker verison of the Hulk has smashes an asteroid twice the size of earth was that blast from Spiderman that powerful.
What level of force was the Phoenix and Galactus using?
Originally posted by Juntai
If you're suggesting Hulk shatters the shield, you're the one that needs toprovide the proof. Near as I can tell, no physical force has broken it at all. Certainly Magneto doesn't run into a being PHYSICALLY stronger than World War Hulk every over issue, so what you're suggesting is a complete impossibility, however a two second search on a character I'm barely familiar wish provided two very strong characters beating in futility against it, and it outright stating MERE PHYSICAL FORCE is not enough to break down his shield.
A weaker version of the Hulk smashed Celestial armour. I dont think Magnetos shields are that powerful.
Hulks strength is not merely physical. He can grab and redirect energy and has been able to absorb intangible beings.
Originally posted by Juntai
Imo, the truth is, I'm not sure how Magneto deals with Hulk while the shield is up, and eventually he would get tired. And Hulk could get him. Maybe bend the light around his eyes to make him blind might buy him some time, but that seems all I can think of, save creating a magnetic field and using it for some straight up battlefield removal.
Hulks body adapts to different attacks.
Originally posted by Starscream M
you have a scan to prove that the asteroid was twice the size of earth and not mere hyperbole?
Actually no I dont but I think I can get hold of the issue. I have this in the mean time though...this a weaker version of the Hulk.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneI would appreciate it if you could find the scan and post it (of hulk smashing larger than earth asteroid)....I have to see it before I believe it
Actually no I dont but I think I can get hold of the issue. I have this in the mean time though...this a weaker version of the Hulk.
Originally posted by Starscream M
I would appreciate it if you could find the scan and post it (of hulk smashing larger than earth asteroid)....I have to see it before I believe it
Yeah I know I got to admit that the scan itself does not prove that the atseroid was twice the size of earth. Im trying to get hold of the issue or somebody who has.
I cant actually find it, but like you ive seen it lying around.
edit: I found it and I concede that there is no proof that its twice the size of earth. However maybe the info is in the issue.
Originally posted by Phantom Zonethanks for finding the scan
Yeah I know I got to admit that the scan itself does not prove that the atseroid was twice the size of earth. Im trying to get hold of the issue or somebody who has.I cant actually find it, but like you ive seen it lying around.
edit: I found it and I concede that there is no proof that its twice the size of earth. However maybe the info is in the issue.
if those rocks are the totality of the asteroid, then it is no bigger than a 4 story house....let alone the ridiculous assertion of it being twice the size of earth
I would like to see Hulk being able to smash an entire mountain in a blow before we even consider him capable of smashing planet sized objects
Originally posted by Starscream M
thanks for finding the scanif those rocks are the totality of the asteroid, then it is no bigger than a 4 story house....let alone the ridiculous assertion of it being twice the size of earth
I would like to see Hulk being able to smash an entire mountain in a blow before we even consider him capable of smashing planet sized objects
Im trying to get the issue but somebody stated how an astronmer actually calcualated the size of the asteroid. Im trying to get somebody to scan the relevant page.
If he can resist a forcefield that can put a planet into orbit I think he can smah planet sized objects. That Hulk was weaker than WWH by the way. 😬
Anyway here you go....and thats a mystic mountain.
