LUKE vs NIHILUS! re-match(all out)

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Well, I've always thought that pulling a ship (fleet?) out of a gravity well so powerful that it ripped apart 2 fleets as well as Malachor 5 was a pretty impressive feat. But then I've always been a bit eccentric.

If by 'eccentric' you actually mean 'retarded', I'd agree. See, I have standards. I find effortlessly destroying a fleet of state-of-the-art ships (which the Ravager isn't) with shields capable of resisting gigatons of energy impressive, and for the pedastel that you put Nihilus on, his feat isn't in proportion.

I thgink that Nihilus' rather bad habit of killing everything around him kind of points to him not being a ritual kind of guy.

Right... so mass murderers can't be capable of rituals? Tell that to Palpatine, whose body count is lightyears ahead of Nihilus's. Are you taking AP classes in Shitty Logic: 101?

What technique is there that does that? Except for Force pull of course.
I guess Palpatines wormhole thing could also do it though. But that wasn't invented yet

Forgive me for not being up to date on esoteric rituals. Furthermore, I never said that it was a rare technique in nature. It could have summoned the appropriate strength for him to use, however.

Length of time isn't really a factor. He can't just pull it out bit by bit like a splinter, the gravity stops that. Admitedly if he took longer then it would make him seem weaker but he's still doing the same amont of work, he's just straining.

Or he could be pulling at the ship for hours upon hours, fighting against gravity. Impressive for stamina and tenacity, but since the details of the technique are unknown and both Nebaris and yourself seem incapable of proving it was LOLZ POWER! ... we'll move on.

Not my argument, so I'm not going to get too involved in it, but the shielding point is stupid. They protect the ships from external damage. Dorsk 81 and the Jedi who were joined to him located their powers directly on the ships, which would automatically bypass the ships defencive capabilities.

Also,

Right... so mass murderers can't be capable of rituals? Tell that to Palpatine, whose body count is lightyears ahead of Nihilus's. Are you taking AP classes in Shitty Logic: 101?

I think what Exodus was making an allusion to was how Nihilus was more force of nature than he was entity. He perceived the universe around him in cosmic proportions, and no longer possessed a "human" way of thinking, making it unlikely he would ever rely on an organised procedure. There is of course also the fact that Traya (the person who trained him) stated that he "knew nothing of knowledge"; while this naturally shouldn't be taken absolutely literally as he's seen using the basics such as telekinesis and Force lightning, as well as his severing technique (which apparently came natural to him), I think it would be safe to rule out ritual lore of the Force.

Stfu.

Dorsk 81 didn't destroy the ships... they were just moved.

The problem being, Nebaris, is that you can't pick and choose what Nihilus does and does not know and what the extent of his knowledge is. Until such a time that you can prove that he has no knowledge of any such rituals or give me details regarding this feat, its ambiguity makes it worthless.

If by 'eccentric' you actually mean 'retarded', I'd agree.

Its funny how I'm 'retarded' when I have yet to bash my head against the keyboard, drool on my neighbour, or molest a monitor.

"One cannot have power of that magnitude and still think and perceive the universe as we do."
¯Kreia

Just found this and wondered what you all thought of it. It's pretty clearly putting Nihilus on a whole new plane, so how does this relate to Skywalker. Probably doesn't mean much to most of you though.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Just found this and wondered what you all thought of it. It's pretty clearly putting Nihilus on a whole new plane, so how does this relate to Skywalker. Probably doesn't mean much to most of you though.

LOL.

No. Kreia is a fallible third party, her statements are subject to hyperbole and exaggeration. She made similar statements of Revan being "the heart of the Force" and shit like that.

No. Kreia is a fallible third party, her statements are subject to hyperbole and exaggeration.

Yes but exaggerating on that level seems pretty stupid, especially when here assurtions of his power are backed up by numerous other characters, the documented level of Nihilus' ability and all that we know of his character

She made similar statements of Revan being "the heart of the Force" and shit like that.

No, she just said that she looked that way though the force. like a pulsing heart. It was an opinion that bears no relation to anything in particular.

Kreia, again, is a fallible third party with biases and her statement is one of total speculation, since she is not as powerful as Nihilus, how does she know what he can and can't perceive?

Originally posted by Gideon
Kreia, again, is a fallible third party with biases and her statement is one of total speculation, since she is not as powerful as Nihilus, how does she know what he can and can't perceive?

Wasn't she his master as she was Sion's? Kreia's knowledge of the force is extremely extensive and while being a fallible 3rd party character on some issues, it's unlikely she's a "fallible" character on ones such as the force or the ancient sith.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Wasn't she his master as she was Sion's? Kreia's knowledge of the force is extremely extensive and while being a fallible 3rd party character on some issues, it's unlikely she's a "fallible" character on ones such as the force or the ancient sith.

She tends to exaggerate sometimes.

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
Does that mean tulak makes revan look like a child playing with a lightsaber despite never seeing him in action nor having his holocron?

She tends to exaggerate sometimes.

No, not everything she says can be taken at face value. For instance, she is a sith historian so she is an authority on the history of the sith and the valley of the dark lords. However, she is merely speculating on Tulak Hord's skill unless she is going based on a holocron or manuscripts or something. With the force, she seems to be the most knowledgeable force user of her time easily, and one of the most knowledgeable ever, so when she is discussing certain aspects of the force, I believe they can be taken at face value. Since she was also the master of Sion and Nihilus, she has no reason to lie about their abilities.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
No, not everything she says can be taken at face value. For instance, she is a sith historian so she is an authority on the history of the sith and the valley of the dark lords. However, she is merely speculating on Tulak Hord's skill unless she is going based on a holocron or manuscripts or something. With the force, she seems to be the most knowledgeable force user of her time easily, and one of the most knowledgeable ever, so when she is discussing certain aspects of the force, I believe they can be taken at face value. Since she was also the master of Sion and Nihilus, she has no reason to lie about their abilities.

You're nitpicking. Traya's comments about Nihilus and Revan are to be accepted wholeheartedly yet her notions about the inferiority of the KotOR Sith aren't?

Originally posted by Gideon
You're nitpicking. Traya's comments about Nihilus and Revan are to be accepted wholeheartedly yet her notions about the inferiority of the KotOR Sith aren't?

I'm NOT nitpicking. It's not an all or nothing ordeal. We have to seriously consider what she says when she's an authority on it, while also taking other comments with a grain of salt.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I'm NOT nitpicking. It's not an all or nothing ordeal. We have to seriously consider what she says when she's an authority on it, while also taking other comments with a grain of salt.

She's not in a place to dictate the perceptions of Nihilus and his power, since she isn't as potent as he is. All she is doing is speculating.

Originally posted by Gideon
She's not in a place to dictate the perceptions of Nihilus and his power, since she isn't as potent as he is. All she is doing is speculating.

How so? She was his master, she was on Malachor V, and her knowledge of the force exceeds that of Nihilus. Are we to assume that when she describes Revan she's also speculating? When there is a master-apprentice bond, speculation is less likely.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
How so? She was his master, she was on Malachor V, and her knowledge of the force exceeds that of Nihilus. Are we to assume that when she describes Revan she's also speculating? When there is a master-apprentice bond, speculation is less likely.

Knowledge is irrelevant. Power is relevant. She does not possess Nihilus's raw power, how can she dictate what and how he perceives, when the whole crux to the argument is raw power?

Originally posted by Gideon
Knowledge is irrelevant. Power is relevant. She does not possess Nihilus's raw power, how can she dictate what and how he perceives, when the whole crux to the argument is raw power?

Apparently she does a great job, seeing as how he's a wound in the force and judging by KOTOR 2, she understands the concept very well. Not to mention, even though she doesn't have that exact technique, she has something similar when she drains the jedi masters.