LUKE vs NIHILUS! re-match(all out)

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Apparently she does a great job, seeing as how he's a wound in the force and judging by KOTOR 2, she understands the concept very well. Not to mention, even though she doesn't have that exact technique, she has something similar when she drains the jedi masters.

Unlike her, you seem to have difficulty mastering this concept, DS. Traya's statement is entirely speculation born from the fact that she does not possess Nihilus's raw power and therefore can't speak to what he can and cannot perceive due to that raw power.

Originally posted by Gideon
Unlike her, you seem to have difficulty mastering this concept, DS. Traya's statement is entirely speculation born from the fact that she does not possess Nihilus's raw power and therefore can't speak to what he can and cannot perceive due to that raw power.

So you are saying to understand a power, you have to possess it?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
So you are saying to understand a power, you have to possess it?

For your word to be taken as an infallible gospel? Yeah.

Originally posted by Gideon
Knowledge is irrelevant. Power is relevant. She does not possess Nihilus's raw power, how can she dictate what and how he perceives, when the whole crux to the argument is raw power?

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
I can kind of see what you're saying, but does that mean that Yoda can't speak about Anakin, seeing as how he doesn't possess the raw power that Anakin does, even though he has more knowledge than Anakin?

Two things.

a.) Exodus wanted to use Kreia's statement as an indication that LOLZ NIHILUS PWNS. DS seemingly has a similar agenda here, for whatever reason.

b.) Kreia's statements are speculation about how Nihilus perceives the universe based on his level of relative power.

Yoda's statements regarding Anakin aren't infallible nor do they speak to perceptions that Yoda cannot experience for himself.

Of course it's not a definitive indication of power, but her word should still be held in high regard. Its like Phil Jackson can play basketball nowhere near Kobe's level, but his knowledge of the sport (and Kobe) allows him to know what Kobe can do, and what he needs to do in certain situations.

wait a minute: you are overlooking something key... during the part of the game where Kreia is describing Nihilus, you can't believe anything she tells you. She is deceiving the Exile the entire time. She would say anything to get him to do EXACTLY what she wants him to do: such as take out Nihilus for her. If she tells the exile: "well, Nihilus will feel you coming on his ship, and just force drain you and your companions to death before you ever get there." She couldn't very well get him to take care of nihilus could she? If she instead says: "he won't sense you coming because of how powerful he is.... or w/e" then she might get the exile to do his bidding.
Traya is often quoted on here as a "historian" so her word is taken a bit too often. You forget that the only time we hear from Traya is a time in which she is a historian with an agenda. Just as every word from sidious was thought out while he was rising to power and seducing Vader, so should everything that Traya said be taken: with a grain of salt if it doesn't fit with other facts, and face it: her making that quote about nihilus's power doesn't fit at all with the relative ease with which he is disposed.

Look at it this way: Sidious was a historian, he was the leader of the Sith: but when he said the jedi betrayed the old republic, he lied. When he said that he could save Padme, He lied. (sound familiar, lying about a power level?) When he told Luke his father would never return, he was lying/mistaken. You can't take every statement traya makes and consider it infallible. She was full of important, stupid-sounding, open to a broad scope of interpretation analogies, i agree with gideon on that one.

Finally: no one can prove that if Nihilus has all this power that I deny he has anyway: but if he does, there is no way to prove his attacks will have any affect on luke. We know for a fact his telekinses will be of no use, unless it is more powerful than the black hole in the center of the galaxy... and i find that unlikely... At last notice, Luke can block a force drain, and quite honestly , has been able, at the time of LOTF, find ways to counter EVERY force attack against him. While han solo, who doesnt' have the force might fall prey to nihilus's force attacks, there is NOTHING supporting an opinion that luke could be touched by such an attack.

Originally posted by Gideon
Two things.

a.) Exodus wanted to use Kreia's statement as an indication that LOLZ NIHILUS PWNS. DS seemingly has a similar agenda here, for whatever reason.

b.) Kreia's statements are speculation about how Nihilus perceives the universe based on his level of relative power.

Yoda's statements regarding Anakin aren't infallible nor do they speak to perceptions that Yoda cannot experience for himself.

I have no idea what Exodus wrote nor do I care. I am simply stating that as his master and someone with extensive knowledge of the force, she understands the technique and its characteristics and is able to perform a smaller version of it. Escape seems to think that because Kreia isn't able to perform the technique, she's not able to understand it.

Ut oh, Darth Sexy and Gideon gonna debate AGAINST eachother? Ive not seen that before. You guys seem to share the majority of your opinions.
And luke takes this easily. I'm not a debator, i just have an opinion and wont really expand on what i know based on reading alot(about 40, a lot to go) of EU Star Wars books and playing both KOTORs.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I have no idea what Exodus wrote nor do I care. I am simply stating that as his master and someone with extensive knowledge of the force, she understands the technique and its characteristics and is able to perform a smaller version of it. Escape seems to think that because Kreia isn't able to perform the technique, she's not able to understand it.

Jesus Christ, DS! It's not a technique that we're speaking of! It's "power of [Nihilus's] magnitude"; Traya does not have it. She isn't a definitive source on his perceptions because she has never experienced how he perceives since she does not have his raw power. The ****ing end.

Originally posted by Tangible God
How are you not blocked yet?

I will explain. It was finally understood that Nebaris is, indeed, like a Lord Voldemort with infinite horcurexes. That being said, these certain 'horcruxes' are known as 'socks', and instead of serving to preserve Nebaris' life (he doesn't have one, after all), they are instead used in order to lengthen his stay on a certain forum, despite 'dying' countless times (being banned). However, one might ask- Voldemort's soul is diluted after every Horcrux he makes, so therefore, Nebaris should be more than dead already. However, that answer to that particular riddle is easy to find! Nebaris' soul remains the same- instead, his brain matter is diluted every time he makes a sock.

And as you can see, it's already critically low.

Nebaris, at least my 'mad ramblings' are based on facts and logic, and unlike you, I do not attempt to fellate characters that do not actually exist, nor do I constantly return to a forum where every single person present hates me with a passion. In other words: STFU.

Your entire argument is based off of the ludicrious assertion that Luke is, somehow, vastly inferior to Nihilus on a force basis (and due to your love of Nihilus/hate of Luke, you even imply that Luke's saber skills are nothing above average, nor are they necessarily above Nihilus' own). Only that Luke displayed a vastly superior speed in comparison to what Nihilus displayed (NOTHING), he has a far greater mastery of the force and superior raw power (based on quotes issued by GL. GL > you), he can logically summon more speed in order to combat his opponent (especially as Nihilus wasn't even known to be capable of fully perceiving individual targets that complete hide their presence from the force- even a non force-sensitive, contrary to your 'mad ramblings' has a presence in the force, and therefore, Nihilus would logically be able to sense their somewhat meager presence. There's a difference between that and NO presence, like Sidious, Luke, and others have displayed), and curbstomp him in a saber duel.

He was capable of stunning Darth Caedus with his saber skills, causing him to believe him to possibly be the best duelist in galactic history, has incredible force prowess, and by your logic, "Force prowess OWNS technical skill!". Unless, of course, that certain logic applies to powerhouses like Luke and Sidious. Then, of course, their exceptional force prowess is meaningless. Because you said so.

Your double standards are amusing.

Originally posted by Gideon
Jesus Christ, DS! It's not a technique that we're speaking of! It's "power of [Nihilus's] magnitude"; Traya does not have it. She isn't a definitive source on his perceptions because she has never experienced how he perceives since she does not have his raw power. The ****ing end.

Again, it doesn't ****ing matter. She UNDERSTANDS how he perceives the force, she has her master apprentice thing going on with him and Sion, and she's a HUGE authority in regards to the force. She does NOT need to have it to understand it, that's ridiculous.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon

Your double standards are amusing.

When questioned of his double standards and hypocrisy, he gave me an extremely unintelligent (and very stupid) answer which made most of us laugh our asses off.

Another point at this hypocritical bastard, master crimson, he is not worth to get into a debate with, he is simply a poor excuse for a human being and should be crucified but instead of a cross, a large pole should be shoved through his rectum and exit out his mouth.

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
So true, and to add to that, he tried to dismiss vaders feat of choking xizor millions of lightyears away as nothing impressive and the funny thing is that when he argued how plo was superior to maul, he brought up plos feat of communicating lightyears away via telepathy and dismissed it as "Ub@h Pwn@g3 l33t!!!111.1!1!1oneone" while claiming vaders feat is "nothing impressive".

When questioned of his double standards and hypocrisy, he gave me an extremely unintelligent (and very stupid) answer which made most of us laugh our asses off.

Another point at this hypocritical bastard, master crimson, he is not worth to get into a debate with, he is simply a poor excuse for a human being and should be crucified but instead of a cross, a large pole should be shoved through his rectum and exit out his mouth.

That's Nebaris for ya. For example, a while ago, I stated that Sidious would be capable of defeating any one of the triumvirate in lightsaber combat (individually), and Nebaris' response was subsequently that Sidious didn't have any particular displays of lightsaber skills, called his skills 'nothing exceptional', and later stated that due to him focusing almost exclusively on his force skills rather than his saber skills, he would most likely be inferior to them in saber combat. However, when I later explained why Zannah's saber skills aren't up to the standards of people like Anakin, Dooku, and Obi-Wan, Nebaris said that Zannah's strength and mastery in the force will be able to get her to 'stomp' over Obi-Wan (and he later claimed that Zannah is stronger than Dooku).

Then again, when you make claims like "Sion is the most powerful Sith EVA!", it's quite impossible to make a reasonable argument.

This is Gideon, reporting to you live from New Jersey, where USAirways royally ****ed me over by cancelling my flight. Thank you, USAirways.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Again, it doesn't ****ing matter. She UNDERSTANDS how he perceives the force, she has her master apprentice thing going on with him and Sion, and she's a HUGE authority in regards to the force. She does NOT need to have it to understand it, that's ridiculous.

Yes it does matter. The whole point is that she is lecturing on what Nihilus can and cannot perceive based on his level of power. She does not possess his level of power and therefore cannot lecture on what he can and cannot perceive. Period. The end.

Originally posted by Gideon
This is Gideon, reporting to you live from New Jersey, where USAirways royally ****ed me over by cancelling my flight. Thank you, USAirways.

Yes it does matter. The whole point is that she is lecturing on what Nihilus can and cannot perceive based on his level of power. She does not possess his level of power and therefore cannot lecture on what he can and cannot perceive. Period. The end.

Why does she need to possess his level of power to describe what he perceives? Her knowledge of the force exceeds that of Nihilus, I would think she knows EXACTLY what he sees, even if she can't conjure up the same force power.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Why does she need to possess his level of power to describe what he perceives? Her knowledge of the force exceeds that of Nihilus, I would think she knows EXACTLY what he sees, even if she can't conjure up the same force power.

Right... because her all encompassing Force knowledge (lol) will compensate for her lack of raw power (lol) and allow her to perceive things on a level of Nihilus (lol), even though the condition in that statement is based on his raw power (lol) that she does not possess (lol).

Basically, DS, your entire syllogism is the definition of retarded. You can't prove this shit at all.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Why does she need to possess his level of power to describe what he perceives? Her knowledge of the force exceeds that of Nihilus, I would think she knows EXACTLY what he sees, even if she can't conjure up the same force power.

Originally posted by Tangible God
That's subject to opinion. It's like an expert on a television show describing an episode he's not seen. They can read about the plot online, hear it from friends, but they can't argue the semantics if they've not seen it.

Thank you, sweet Jesus.

Originally posted by Tangible God
That's subject to opinion. It's like an expert on a television show describing an episode he's not seen. They can read about the plot online, hear it from friends, but they can't argue the semantics if they've not seen it.

What do you mean she hasn't "seen" it. She was stripped of the force on Malachor V. She understood EXACTLY what had happened.